Posted by tkf:
I saw both gomes and charlie play tonight, first off charlie V is going to be a nice NBA player and so is gomes, but looking at gomes game Vs lee game, I still rather have lee for what we are going to do... as far as charlie goes again he looked good but he is not a physical player at all, not at this level..
I understand what you're saying. And I agree for that. But in case you han't noticed, all Briggs likes to talk about is stats. A team could get hammered but if they got a 6-11 gut who had over 15 points Briggs is set to crown him King and then he will come back to the Knick boxscore and even though we might have won will compare the two young guys. What you're saying, tkf, is based on team play. This is unserstandable because it's a team sport. You're talking about what Lee is going to do based on team concept. This will fall on deaf ears with Briggs because even if Lee and Frye provide the numbers they are asked to and step up to do what coach Brown asks them to do all wothin a winning season....none of this will matter. His issue will be personal stats on those guys.
Translation: If we as a team do terribly but the rookies put up big numbers he'd be happy. But if the rookies do what is required for the New York Knicks to win and put up modest numbers he'll be made. Winning season and all.
Briggs take a friggin chil pill. This is exactly what is wrong with most fans-you have NO PATIENCE. We are in for the long run, not the first week or two of their rookie year. There is no doubt in my mind that Lee is going to be a very good player in this league, but he may not show it this year. It all depends on circumstances-playing time, etc. As far as Frye vs Bynum- with Curry on the team Frye is a much better fit. Frye can be a star at pf, where if curry is playing 35+mins bynum would be wasted on this team. When have we had a 6'11" pf on this team? Also Frye missed almost all of training camp, in a new system and it may take time for him to blossum. You can't judge everyone on the first game, or first two weeks. It may take 1/2 a season or more for some players to play up to expectations. As far as the draft I recall you wanting Taft instead of Lee. Lets see how Taft does. You can't keep looking in the box score and pick the flavor of the night and say we should have done this. As far as saying Lee vs all the draft picks, it really comes down to next years 1st rnd pick in a VERY week draft. I def. rather have kept Lee instead of that pick.
Patience or not, 4 year college players either show it thier rook year or they suck. We did not draft kids out of HS here. All 3 guys are 4 year veterans (or maybe one of them is a 3 year, whatever, don't come back and analize me with that), so if they don't show signs of beign any good, guess what, it most likely means they are not.
And IT did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
yea but who said bogut will be a superstar
Posted by simrud:
Patience or not, 4 year college players either show it thier rook year or they suck. We did not draft kids out of HS here. All 3 guys are 4 year veterans (or maybe one of them is a 3 year, whatever, don't come back and analize me with that), so if they don't show signs of beign any good, guess what, it most likely means they are not.
And IT did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
This is a good point, kind of what I mean and what I hope happens. I went over a lot of numbers on 4 year players in the nBA going back about 15 years--not long ago, remeber all players stayed 4 yrs for the most part. Its RARE for a 4 yr player to play poor his first year in the nBA and turn it around. When I posted some numbers, well, this is what I hope OUR guys do. Im not going to be a guy that says oh well, channing Frye 4 points 3 reb on a consistent basis etc.. hes just a rookie, no imho he should be given the opportunity to start [because who else do we 6-5 malik rose?} and I expect frye to play well--Im not buying rookie takes time with 4 year players.
OT
Yo Briggs, thought i'd post in this thread. If your two tickets open up let me know.
Thanks
May favorite Taft moment this summer was when after about 3 drills he went and sat down or when Lee destroyed him in Houston. Those are the only ones I know about. Taft is very lazy and would last about a week with Larry Brown.
were Brad Miller and Ben Wallace 4 year college players?
Posted by simrud:
Patience or not, 4 year college players either show it thier rook year or they suck. We did not draft kids out of HS here. All 3 guys are 4 year veterans (or maybe one of them is a 3 year, whatever, don't come back and analize me with that), so if they don't show signs of beign any good, guess what, it most likely means they are not.
And IT did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
good post. Frye has to at least show signs
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by tkf:
I saw both gomes and charlie play tonight, first off charlie V is going to be a nice NBA player and so is gomes, but looking at gomes game Vs lee game, I still rather have lee for what we are going to do... as far as charlie goes again he looked good but he is not a physical player at all, not at this level..
I understand what you're saying. And I agree for that. But in case you han't noticed, all Briggs likes to talk about is stats. A team could get hammered but if they got a 6-11 gut who had over 15 points Briggs is set to crown him King and then he will come back to the Knick boxscore and even though we might have won will compare the two young guys. What you're saying, tkf, is based on team play. This is unserstandable because it's a team sport. You're talking about what Lee is going to do based on team concept. This will fall on deaf ears with Briggs because even if Lee and Frye provide the numbers they are asked to and step up to do what coach Brown asks them to do all wothin a winning season....none of this will matter. His issue will be personal stats on those guys.
Translation: If we as a team do terribly but the rookies put up big numbers he'd be happy. But if the rookies do what is required for the New York Knicks to win and put up modest numbers he'll be made. Winning season and all.
hahaha, I see what you are saying. Briggs is good for doing this, I am used to it, but I don't agree with it, Looking at gomes numbers can be deceiving, in the first half, neither gomes or any of the celts rookies could keep with matt Bonner who was kicking their behinds, I like to look beyond the numbers becaue gomes will not be getting 18/7 in regular season games..
Posted by simrud:
Patience or not, 4 year college players either show it thier rook year or they suck. We did not draft kids out of HS here. All 3 guys are 4 year veterans (or maybe one of them is a 3 year, whatever, don't come back and analize me with that), so if they don't show signs of beign any good, guess what, it most likely means they are not.
And IT did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
That's if you believe that Bogut will be a superstar.
Most of you are too young to remember the Celtics of Red Auerbach. One of the most intriguing things was Auerbach's ability to bring along young players. Others drafted ahead of them put up decent numbers whereas Auerbach's choices with few exceptions seemed to be nothing special-that is until there was an opening in front of them and Red thought they were ready. Suddenly a top notch replacement for one of his veterans came to the fore.
I don't know whether any of the knx picks will be a star, a very good player, a journeyman or a bust and neither do any of you. Darryl Dawkins anyone?
Very often a player will be the shining light of a franchise, the center of attraction or a very good player and he leaves that team goes to a better team where he is not the focal point and puts up decent but not great numbers. Whould Okafor or Howard have put up the numbers they did in Dallas or San Antonio? I doubt it. They were force fed on their respective teams and their ability showed through but how many couldn't stand up to be on the center stage in the pro ranks? Sweetney, for example, will put up better numbers in Chicago than he did here both because he is ready and there will be the playing time available.
[Edited by - TheSage on 10-15-2005 5:00 PM]
Posted by simrud:
Patience or not, 4 year college players either show it thier rook year or they suck. We did not draft kids out of HS here. All 3 guys are 4 year veterans (or maybe one of them is a 3 year, whatever, don't come back and analize me with that), so if they don't show signs of beign any good, guess what, it most likely means they are not.
And IT did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
Playa is still alive and plagiarizing
playa
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How to judge rookies
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4 year college players either show it their rookie year or they suck. We did not draft kids out of HighSchool(bynum for example) here in Frye Lee and Nate.
All 3 guys are 4 year veterans (or maybe one of them is a 3 year so if they don't show signs of being any good, guess what, it most likely means they are not.
And Zeke did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
Posted by simrud:
And you don't?
I don't believe Bogut will be a superstar either. When I see it I'll believe it. He had some very discouraging signs over the summer, and his raw athletic ability is below average for a supposed star prospect like him. I believe I wasn't the only person who was a little shocked when the pre-draft measurements came out. I believe Bogut will be a good rebounder with decent inside scoring skills and excellent passing ability for a big man, a good player his first year. But for me the question is how high his ceiling is.
Posted by TheSage:
And Zeke did say he would draft Frye number 1 over Bogut. Thats kinda saying you expect him to be a superstar.
No...thats called spin
Posted by fishmike:
were Brad Miller and Ben Wallace 4 year college players?
Did you know that Brad Miller walked on for a Knicks camp out of Purdue and we cut him?
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by fishmike:
were Brad Miller and Ben Wallace 4 year college players?
Did you know that Brad Miller walked on for a Knicks camp out of Purdue and we cut him?
Yup. That's why some of these dudes are just spinning their wheels talking about what Frye, Lee and Nate need to do out the gate. Every NBA player's journey to success has been different. I like the examples above. Some of these guys would have been the ring leader in trading Brad Miller if we were the Bulls back when they had him. If we were in their position and had Brad on our squad but Brad still hadn't shown signs of being anywhere close to an allstar guys would have wanted him out. He goes right over to another team and becomes an allstar. On the other hand some guys are really good in the beginning of their careers and then fizzle out. Every path is different. All I want our players to do is contribute to a winning season. I just want them to do whatever they need to do in order to play a part in us being successful this season. I could care less what their numbers are. I want some W's.
Andrew- that was Simrud's quote
No...thats called spin
That's pretty obvious to anyone who's not indiscriminately trying to criticize Isiah
I've gotta agree with Briggs on this one--- one of our rookies, be it Frye or Lee... should at least be a part time starter at PF this season. Rose is an excellent backup PF/C... and Mo Taylor plays and thinks like an instant-offense type of black hole. Frye and Lee both have offensive tools and athleticism that our two veterans lack... for example, both are solid (Frye is great) midrange jump shooters.
Frye would make a strong pairing w/ the low-post Curry... and would provide us with extra size if we start Q at SF.
