Give me a break. They wont get the 2nd seed and they wont get past Miami.
how so? they still have to go on the road to play Detroit in the East finals if they make it that far, so being a 3rd or a 2nd won't make a difference.
if you don't think as a 3rd they can beat the Heat, how do you think they can beat the Pistons, who happen to be the best team in the NBA.
big difference in being a 3rd vs a 2nd - only 1 game 7 on the road.
they can beat Detroit. Kidd still can take Chauncey's heart.
Carter vs Miami this year: 38.5 points 7.3 rebounds 5.5 assists.
Posted by ultknicks524:
Give me a break. They wont get the 2nd seed and they wont get past Miami.
Miami loss at home to Orlando today. NJ is 2 games back with 6 games remaining. Miami has 5 they can catch them. NJ won the regular season series 3-1
Nets can beat Detroit - only problem is Miami is a HORRIBLE matchup for them and they have to play them in round two.
Mia-NJ will come down to coaching Collins & Carter.
Frank can devise the schemes. If Collins stays out of foul trouble and Carter plays at the level he is capable of, NJ will win.
I think new jersey can beat Miami. Miami has wade but I think Vince balances him out. Shaq is not what he was. Nenad is not afraid of him. Shaq is gonna have to step out and guard nenad. That dude can play. Dick is the x factor. He can guard wade with kidd and dick can definately look like Vince at times.
Miami to me still don't look complete. They can win and play together but they don't seem solidified,...no sparks, you know? Like they have yet to fully gel. Well see when the shit hits the fan.
Nj's never beaten Shaq and people, playoffs is a new season.. In the playoffs, teams are forced to play half court sets.. If that's the case, NJ is done!!!!
They don't have a prolific frontcourt palyer that can dominate in the post.. NEnad is a jump shooting big men who can rebound..
Watch what happens when they have to battle Detriot and Miami.. Also the team to come out of the east must be able to be .500 on the road... So far , Maimi and Detroit has a .500 or better road record
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html
NJ is .500 on the road. Shaq played in all 3 losses to NJ.
RJ is averaging 17 and 7 with 3 assists vs Maimi this season
Kidd is averaging 12pts 7assists and 6rebs
[Edited by - McK1 on 04-09-2006 11:27 PM]
The Nets have absolutely zero chance at beating the Pistons - they don't have the bench production, jump-shooting, or rebounding to do it. Nets bench - McInnis hasn't played ball in 4 months and will go against Lindsey Hunter (defender extraordinaire), Lamond Murray is a spot-up shooter, Planinic plays for the Nets, Padgett will shoot and miss 3s, and Uncle Cliff should join Mutombo in a nursing home. Notice that none of the above will create an open shot.
The Wallaces against Krstic and Collins is an especially interesting matchup because of the utterly apocalyptic destruction on the boards. As a tiny sampling, Ben Wallace's playoff average = 14 rpg. So I can only imagine it will be closer to 30 against the Nets. Since Kidd (7rpg) and Jefferson (7rpg) will need to forage for defensive rebounds to stay alive (and will be mildly sucsessful), Net fastbreak points start to approach 0 especially since Prince and a rather large afro will be waiting near the basket. The net result, which I'm sure will excite Nets fans, is more half-court offense.
Prince (10 yard wing span) will check Carter; in other words, to avoid shoting 30%, he will need to find ways to score other than failed crossovers and pull-up 3s. RJ is their 1 mis-match in the post against Rip. The help will come occasionally from Chauncey and the bricks will come frequently from Kidd (35% 3-point), enough atleast to lose the series handily.
Of course, there's no one to guard Rasheed in the post or on the perimeter. Chauncey/Rasheed pick and rolls will routinely yield an open shot. Doubling might be of slight concern to NJ --> Detroit is the 2nd best 3-point shooting team in the league at 39%. Hamilton will as usual get open a fair amount of times. Prince will be used as a spot-up threat rather than in the post against RJ.
NJ may opt to put Kidd on Hamilton to save Carter from playing tag on defense and possibly needing an inhaler for the rest of his life. I think this is by far the smartest move for NJ because Carter can give space and still contest Chauncey's shot. Kidd can at least attempt to run with Hamilton but that remains a Detroit advantage, albeit less dire.
Perhaps the biggest difference is that, unlike Detroit, NJ will get burned on every drive due to marginal interior defense and great Detroit shooting from positions 1-4. NJ drives will be met by a Wallace or two and Cheney-like shooting by Kidd and Jefferson.
The only way NJ beats Detroit is Tonya Harding style.
colorful language
Jersey and Detroit split this year 2-2 with wins on each others homecourt.
Vaughn is the back-up point who'll be matched up with Hunter who himself missed most of the season but again colorful language
I do think New Jersey matches up well with Detroit than Miami. Collins takes care of Rasheed Wallace. In 4 games this year, Rasheed is shooting 26% from the field(15-57) and 22% from 3PT(7-31). He is also only averaging 10 points(lowest against any opponent) and 8 rebounds. Kidd/Billups and Jefferson/Prince cancel out. It is going to come down to Hamilton and Carter.
Posted by McK1:
Jersey and Detroit split this year 2-2 with wins on each others homecourt.
Vaughn is the back-up point who'll be matched up with Hunter who himself missed most of the season but again colorful language
Vaughn is garbage. He's not an offensive threat. He's barely a basketball player. But thanks for bringing him up as he's part of the NJ antique collection and also the reason why I drive especially fast on Henry Hudson.
If thats you're rebuttal, I have to say its insufficient and not colorful enough. Oh, and bad.
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by McK1:
Jersey and Detroit split this year 2-2 with wins on each others homecourt.
Vaughn is the back-up point who'll be matched up with Hunter who himself missed most of the season but again colorful language
Vaughn is garbage. He's not an offensive threat. He's barely a basketball player. But thanks for bringing him up as he's part of the NJ antique collection and also the reason why I drive especially fast on Henry Hudson.
If thats you're rebuttal, I have to say its insufficient and not colorful enough. Oh, and bad.
it wasn't a rebuttal. don't need to rebut rubbish
Posted by McK1:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by McK1:
Jersey and Detroit split this year 2-2 with wins on each others homecourt.
Vaughn is the back-up point who'll be matched up with Hunter who himself missed most of the season but again colorful language
Vaughn is garbage. He's not an offensive threat. He's barely a basketball player. But thanks for bringing him up as he's part of the NJ antique collection and also the reason why I drive especially fast on Henry Hudson.
If thats you're rebuttal, I have to say its insufficient and not colorful enough. Oh, and bad.
it wasn't a rebuttal. don't need to rebut rubbish
So far, you bring up 4 whole games of empirical evidence with 2 Detroit semi-blowout wins (10, 13 points), one close NJ 7-point win and one NJ win with 2 secs left on the clock. No sane observer would go on that and Vaughn's imprsonation of a basketball player.
If you're so against rubbish stop posting. Especially the crap you responded with. If you have a case, make it. Talk matchups.
I wouldn't rely on a few regular season matchups nearly as much as McK1 is to predict what will happen in the real season. I cannot imagine NJ beating Detroit or Miami (unless Wade or Shaq got injured) in the playoffs.
judging by your initial post, you obviously have paid no attention to the way NJ plays
The Nets have absolutely zero chance at beating the Pistons - they don't have the bench production, jump-shooting, or rebounding to do it. Nets bench - McInnis hasn't played ball in 4 months and will go against Lindsey Hunter (defender extraordinaire), Lamond Murray is a spot-up shooter, Planinic plays for the Nets, Padgett will shoot and miss 3s, and Uncle Cliff should join Mutombo in a nursing home. Notice that none of the above will create an open shot.
Carter and RJ are a mismatch in the post for Rip and Prince, thats where the open looks will come from. Vaughn and Robinson are veteran players who know what the playoffs are about. They won't just fold-up.
The Wallaces against Krstic and Collins is an especially interesting matchup because of the utterly apocalyptic destruction on the boards. As a tiny sampling, Ben Wallace's playoff average = 14 rpg. So I can only imagine it will be closer to 30 against the Nets.
against NJ Ben Wallace is averaging 10 rpg. NJ has players in RJ, Carter and Kidd who'll fight with their bigs for rebounds. he'll get close to 30 is nothing but colorful language
Since Kidd (7rpg) and Jefferson (7rpg) will need to forage for defensive rebounds to stay alive (and will be mildly sucsessful), Net fastbreak points start to approach 0 especially since Prince and a rather large afro will be waiting near the basket.
you're forgetting Carter. RJ and Carters size strength skill and athleticism grossly underrated by you
The net result, which I'm sure will excite Nets fans, is more half-court offense.
Prince (10 yard wing span) will check Carter; in other words, to avoid shoting 30%, he will need to find ways to score other than failed crossovers and pull-up 3s. RJ is their 1 mis-match in the post against Rip. The help will come occasionally from Chauncey and the bricks will come frequently from Kidd (35% 3-point), enough atleast to lose the series handily.
Nenad Krstic can hit shots. So can Robinson. Neither Rip or Tayshaun Prince can not guard Vince 1-on-1 on the block. The help has to come. Same goes for RJ.
Of course, there's no one to guard Rasheed in the post or on the perimeter. Chauncey/Rasheed pick and rolls will routinely yield an open shot. Doubling might be of slight concern to NJ --> Detroit is the 2nd best 3-point shooting team in the league at 39%. Hamilton will as usual get open a fair amount of times. Prince will be used as a spot-up threat rather than in the post against RJ.
Nets have done a good job on Sheed all season. Kidd has prove nsince 2002 he can take Chauncey out of the game without any help. Prince used as a spot-up man is in NJ's favor. Prince has an OK shot. He is no Ray Allen.
NJ may opt to put Kidd on Hamilton to save Carter from playing tag on defense and possibly needing an inhaler for the rest of his life. I think this is by far the smartest move for NJ because Carter can give space and still contest Chauncey's shot. Kidd can at least attempt to run with Hamilton but that remains a Detroit advantage, albeit less dire.
Kidd guards Chauncey. if Carter can't stay with rip or to conserve him RJ can easily switch. Carter can guard your "spot-up decoy" and save even more energy.
I appreciate you addressing my points. I don't have time to run through each scenario but I'll talk about the major disagreements.
Prince can check Carter anywhere and on the block. I can't see that ending any other way than a contested fadeaway 14 footer. Vince isn't exactly going to carve out position in the paint. He'll use his bag of tricks and Tayshaun will fall for his fakes a certain number of times. Besides the gimmicks, Tayshaun's length and agility is too much of an obstacle. Remember, Tayshaun has stopped/derailed everyone from T-Mac to Kobe to RJ in the playoffs.
If Kidd's on Chauncey, Rip will incinerate Carter. There is no way Carter can match Rip's speed on those pin downs possession after possession. RJ sure as hell can't do it. And you can bet it will affect Carter's offense as well. Kidd is their best defensive player so they have to choose wisely. Kidd has done well against Chauncey but he's also been beaten in a playoff series by Chauncey. Regardless, there's only so much you can do against the Billups/Rasheed pick an roll because both can shoot from 25 feet out. Is Kidd going over the top of screens? Because I'll put money that Chauncey will be by him in a flash if that's the scheme.
Again fastbreaks points will be few for New Jersey because their frontline just can't rebound. You can call Vaughn and Robinson "veterans" but that group collectively will go through an offensive drought. With Prince on Carter, they'll need to work for every point. I'll live with Kidd going 1 on 1. Krstic can make shots if left open and only if left open. But, again, Detroit does not need to double heavily. There is no reason. RJ will get his points but I'm not sure it will be efficient - RJ is not an impressive first option. I can't see New Jersey scoring over 80 in a post-season game vs. Detroit.
This isnt the same New Jersey team when they had Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles. They are not a fastbreak team. They are a halfcourt team.
