If Wang pitches even half of what he's capable of we aren't out already. It's always about pitching in this league, so i'd like to see him stay and see if they can improve the pitching staff. We have the offense, but we don't have enough pitching.
I can't decide. I question a lot of Torre's bullpen decisions but it's so easy to second guess. And it's revealing that he has the support of all the players. I'd lean toward keeping him but I really don't know.
his no. 1 starter was a disaster, clemens wore out (starphuch) and the bats were not on fire. cleveland played well, it happens.
No, the players did not perform. Keep Joe.
Should the team be grooming Joba to close? Bring him along next season to set up Mariano. Mariano seems to have one more year left in my opinion.
Yankees just not the same without roids.
At least Steinbrenner doesn't seem to be thinking about firing Cashman. I used to be a Cashman critic, but I support him after seeing how much young talent he's added to the pitching rotation in such a short time span.
I say yes. No production warrants a change. Joe, thank you for the four championships in your first five years, but we've lost 7 years in a row now, and lost in the first round four times out of those, I think.
Some of it has been bad managing. The era is over, though, and it's time to move on.
Despite claims to the contrary, when you don't perform, you deserve to lose your job. I could see the Yankees having won at two more championships if not for inexplicable managing decisions in past years.
Time to get someone fresh in there.
Posted by Solace:
I say yes. No production warrants a change. Joe, thank you for the four championships in your first five years, but we've lost 7 years in a row now, and lost in the first round four times out of those, I think.
Some of it has been bad managing. The era is over, though, and it's time to move on.
Despite claims to the contrary, when you don't perform, you deserve to lose your job. I could see the Yankees having won at two more championships if not for inexplicable managing decisions in past years.
Time to get someone fresh in there.
If you were the owner, would you consult with your team captain (Jeter) first? What if he says he thinks firing Torre would be a terrible mistake? What if all the other veterans agree? Just playing devil's advocate.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-09-2007 12:05 AM]
Posted by Bonn1997:
If you were the owner, would you consult with your team captain (Jeter) first? What if he says he thinks firing Torre would be a terrible mistake? What if all the other veterans agree? Just playing devil's advocate.
At some point you have to do what's best for the team, not individual players, necessarily. Counterpoint: What if a reason why the Yankees aren't winning is because the players are *too* comfortable with Torre? In that case, maybe a shakeup would help.
Torre's had a long time with the Yankees and everyone will always appreciate and love what he's done for the team, but it's time to step down. Frankly, I thought he should've been gone after last year.
[Edited by - Solace on Oct 09 2007 12:10 AM]
Torre just used the word Solace in his post game comments quote
"What I take solace in is the fact how bad the players want this and you'd like to see them win it all."
With that being said Solace you need to change your decision.
Posted by TrueBlue:
Torre just used the word Solace in his post game comments quote
"What I take solace in is the fact how bad the players want this and you'd like to see them win it all."
With that being said Solace you need to change your decision.
I'd only change my decision if I felt like we'd win a championship next year. I have minimal confidence of that, unfortunately.
The sentimental part of me wants Torre to stay, but the reality is, I want a championship and I don't see another one happening while Torre is here.
One more question: What if Pettitte, A-Rod, Posada, and Mariano all (or even just some of them) say they won't come back if Torre's gone?
Posted by Bonn1997:
One more question: What if Pettitte, A-Rod, Posada, and Mariano all (or even just some of them) say they won't come back if Torre's gone?
They're not the future of the team. I love all of those guys, they're all my heroes, but at some point, you have to realize that this team needs to rework and needs an injection of youth to get back to the big game.
And honestly, I think A-Rod opts out either way. I'll be utterly shocked if he doesn't. The moment he opts out, he's done as a Yankee; so I think he's gone either way.
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
One more question: What if Pettitte, A-Rod, Posada, and Mariano all (or even just some of them) say they won't come back if Torre's gone?
They're not the future of the team. I love all of those guys, they're all my heroes, but at some point, you have to realize that this team needs to rework and needs an injection of youth to get back to the big game.
And honestly, I think A-Rod opts out either way. I'll be utterly shocked if he doesn't. The moment he opts out, he's done as a Yankee; so I think he's gone either way.
That pretty much sums it up - it is definitely sad that these guys wont get us back to the big game one more time, but it is time to make moves to get younger and better. Wouldnt want to see the Yanks end up like the Knicks.
Fire him.
The team hasn't shown up in the playoffs for the last 3 years, coming off the 2004 collapse. They've gotten off to slow starts the last few years and have had to push themselves harder than necessary.
They've lost their fire and I think that starts with their manager.
Cashman is doing what Isiah is trying to do except:
Cashman gets to the playoffs and has a shot while rebuilding the pitching staff.
Joe did a great job getting this team to come together and be the best in the second half. he is top 3 in Coach of the year award and might get it.
Its typical that somebody must be painted as to whose fault it is that the team won't advance.
Seven straight postseason appearances is not easy task and this team is far from being a loser. The steroid Yanks made it look easy. Especially when Scott Brocious woke up and became Greg Nettles over night and Paul O'neil became Pete rose in his twilight!
And I say no to 300mil A-rod! Extend him 5 years on top of his existing contract even at 30mil a year. Texas is paying 10mil of his salary for us the next two years which has been sweet, but if he opts out he is off the hook! I'd extend him five years with options for another two. That would keep him in the stripes for 10 and break bonds records as a yankee.
If he needs to chase the crazy money then let him. He is MVP two years runn8ing and his effect in the regualar season is huge.
Lets not get too caught up in the playoff failures. They are failures at the highest level!
His time is up. It's been up for a few years now. Its the nature of the game these days that Managers/Coaches have a shelf-life. Right now the team needs to loosen up. They need another guy at the helm to get them re-charged.
Our two biggest problems. We need young starting pitching and A-Rod was a complete phony. That piece of shit needs to go. Torre must stay.
We don't need a guy to hit 50 or more home runs a season. Doesn't 50 seems to boring nowadays? We don't need a line-up with powers hitters. We don't need steroid users either. They don't really pan out one way or the other. Look at Bonds. That cheater never won a thing. At least Babe Ruth went to what about 10 world series and walked away with what' 7 rings? George tried power hitter team for years and years and when he finally let his people put a team together, what we won on was complete skill and fiestiness. Our biggest home run hitter was usually Bernie Williams (he'd hit about 30). We relied on timely, skilled, clutch hitting and base running. The home runs that came where usually dramatic and the pitching was golden. Either one would keep us close until the clutchies came along. And of course, when you have one of the greatest stoppers of all-time in Mo, that was a blessing, but the point is, we won on fundamentals and less on home run dramatics. We need to get back to basics with this team and Joe Torre has proven more to better at managing fundamental baseball more than he's ever manage power house baseball. I believe he should stay and that certain people like A-Rod and Giambi need to go. We have some very good talent in our farm systems that are always waiting to come up and develop. Remember, the core of those Yankee championship teams came up through our own ranks. George didn't go out and pay extremely high prices for free agents. So when we won using players like that, you can easily see how going back to the power game hasn't worked (again) just like when George was infatuated by it back in the 80's and early 90's. We got to get back to the basics and develop from within.
