Off Topic · Clemens' trainer to sue him (Clemens)... (page 2)

Posted by TMS:

& yet McNamee never corrected Clemens when he said repeatedly that he never used steroids... but go ahead & keep believing everything you hear out of the ESPN "experts" that Clemens is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt based on some shoddy evidence... obviously it's worked with majorleads.

Hey putz, I haven't watched anything on ESPN. I heard the press conference on the radio and determined Clemens is full of it.
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo guilty. He should have just did what Pettitte did and say he used it one time for an injury. End of story.

hey a-hole, go screw yourself... u can say he's guilty til ur blue in the face, doesn't change the fact that this entire case is built on questionable evidence at best... but go ahead & keep trying to sound intelligent on this topic... it's very amusing.

Posted by TMS:

hey a-hole, go screw yourself... u can say he's guilty til ur blue in the face, doesn't change the fact that this entire case is built on questionable evidence at best... but go ahead & keep trying to sound intelligent on this topic... it's very amusing.

Why is the evidence questionable? Because Clemens says so? This trainer was Clemens best buddy and involved deep into the business of supplying and distributing steroids. Clemens introduced McNamee to Pettitte who admitted he used the juice. So McNamee is credible there. Clemens then says he has no clue about steroids, so you mean to tell me his buddy and trainer who is knee deep in distributing this stuff, somehow jolly Roger had no idea what was going on?!?!?!? That he didn't know Pettitte took them??? He was "shocked?" Come on!!!! Mitchell and Pettitte both back up McNamee story.

And why the heck would Roger not ask McNamee the all important question, WHY DID YOU LIE TO SENATOR MITCHELL? Hmmmm When McNamee was asking Clemens in the phone call "what do you want me to?" Anybody who was accused of something they didn't do, would be furious in that situation and say STOP LYING. I know I would have been furious and screaming at McNamee. Wouldn't you be furious in that call????

The bottom line is this is a he said he said case and unless there was a paper trail or other people who come forward to implicate Clemens, then it's just up you and I and everyone else to judge for themselves whether Clemens is lying.

the evidence is questionable because it's ALL HEARSAY FREAKIN' EVIDENCE! holy crap, are you dense or just illiterate?!?! you cannot possibly pronounce guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt based on the tainted testimony obtained off a man under emotional & psychological duress... i will repeat it again for you since you seem to be incapable of following along here... I THINK ROGER PROBABLY DID THE ROIDS... but i can't say that i am 100% sure that he did it based on this shoddy evidence... & should it come out that McNamee was the one lying here, which is a possibility, i really would love to see your reaction to it.

If you missed the Clemens interview on 60 minutes here it is part 1 and 2

http://realknicks.com/index.php?option=c...

Posted by TMS:

the evidence is questionable because it's ALL HEARSAY FREAKIN' EVIDENCE! holy crap, are you dense or just illiterate?!?! you cannot possibly pronounce guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt based on the tainted testimony obtained off a man under emotional & psychological duress... i will repeat it again for you since you seem to be incapable of following along here... I THINK ROGER PROBABLY DID THE ROIDS... but i can't say that i am 100% sure that he did it based on this shoddy evidence... & should it come out that McNamee was the one lying here, which is a possibility, i really would love to see your reaction to it.

Wow, you are a bigger nutcase than Clemens. Why is it "tainted" testimony? He was telling the truth about Pettitte. And I seriously doubt Senator Mitchell would put his own reputation on the line by falsely accusing Clemens. Hello?? Senator Mitchell!!

Clemens waits a month to file a law suit? Hmmm doesn't sound like someone who is innocent to me. Anyone falsely accused would have come out immediately and furiously deny it and then sue. In that phone conversation, I would have been FURIOUS with McNamee who just destroyed my reputation and everything that I've worked for my entire career. But no, he had his attorney play the stupid game of trying to make McNamee look like an incompetent fool.

Clemens also says he was concerned with whats put into his body, well then if he's so concerned why would he have a trainer inject him with B-12? Why wouldn't he have his own team DOCTORS administer the shots?

How does Clemens not know McNamee was dealing in steroids? How does Clemens not know his good buddy Andy took them?

These 2 were sooo close, how could Clemens not know anything?

And McNamee was very precise in describing what he gave Roger, where he took the shots and when he took the shots.

Next up, Clemens before Congress waiving his finger saying he didn't do it. LIAR.

Posted by TMS:

& yet McNamee never corrected Clemens when he said repeatedly that he never used steroids... but go ahead & keep believing everything you hear out of the ESPN "experts" that Clemens is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt based on some shoddy evidence... obviously it's worked with majorleads.

Do you think Big Mac, Sosa, and Bonds did it with all that hard evidence floating around? Something tells me if Clemens was never a yankee just about everyone except for a few boston fans would have jumped on him.

Clemens #'s never spiked to unprecedented levels the way they did for those 3 guys, & his body did not just completely grow out of proportion the way those guys did... did u see how Sosa completely shrunk once he got off the stuff & how his body started to break down? the same happened to Mac & Bonds... Clemens was a dominant pitcher both years before the alleged use & after... of course i'm sure u'll tell me i'm being naive if i think he wasn't using throughout his career because you somehow have this solid evidence that points to his guilt... if that's the case i suggest you come out with it & present it to the media & make some money off it, cuz so far what's been made public is a whole lotta he said, he said type stuff that doesn't really prove much of anything.

& what do u mean if he wasn't a Yankee dude? everyone & their mom jumped on this case as soon as it was made public, w/ur boy majorleads here busting a nut as soon as the news broke in all likelihood.

The #s he put up in Toronto were uncharacteristic. He hadn't pitched like that for 5 seasons, and of course it was after Duquette told him his career was done.

"& what do u mean if he wasn't a Yankee dude? everyone & their mom jumped on this case as soon as it was made public, w/ur boy majorleads here busting a nut as soon as the news broke in all likelihood."

meaning, if he was never a yankee, you would have deemed him guilty already.

Posted by jaydh:

The #s he put up in Toronto were uncharacteristic. He hadn't pitched like that for 5 seasons, and of course it was after Duquette told him his career was done.

"& what do u mean if he wasn't a Yankee dude? everyone & their mom jumped on this case as soon as it was made public, w/ur boy majorleads here busting a nut as soon as the news broke in all likelihood."

meaning, if he was never a yankee, you would have deemed him guilty already.

PMS is in love with Clemens. Probably jerks his little wang to him every night.

I was a fan of Piazza and he wasn't on the Mitchell report. But I have NO DOUBT that Mikey was on the juice. Also another guy not on the Mitchell report was Javy Lopez. Anyone who watched the Braves that season when he hit like 40 plus hr's knows he was juicing. He was hitting MOON SHOOTS farther than Sheffield that season. I bet Delcrapo was on the juice too but forgot to take it last season and thats why he sucked.

Posted by majorleads:

PMS is in love with Clemens. Probably jerks his little wang to him every night.

now there is the type of intelligent post i expect from you majorleads... is it any wonder why i enjoy engaging you in these little debates... your little gems of wisdom are what makes posting here worthwhile for me.

Posted by jaydh:

The #s he put up in Toronto were uncharacteristic. He hadn't pitched like that for 5 seasons, and of course it was after Duquette told him his career was done.

"& what do u mean if he wasn't a Yankee dude? everyone & their mom jumped on this case as soon as it was made public, w/ur boy majorleads here busting a nut as soon as the news broke in all likelihood."

meaning, if he was never a yankee, you would have deemed him guilty already.

you seriously need to learn how to read... scroll up a few posts & see what i said about Clemens probably being guilty of using.

& what the hell does Duquette have to do w/any of this? so because he told Clemens that he was done, that means he was done, is that it? he is suddenly the God of baseball as far as you're concerned... what he says goes... please, stop being silly.

how about how his #'s levelled off over the 5 years he pitched in NY when the allegations were that he was still juicing? or should we only be focusing on the 2 years he had in TOR after some shlub who never played in the majors told 1 of the alltime HOF pitchers that he didn't have it anymore?

[Edited by - TMS on 01-09-2008 04:24 AM]

I agree with TMS here. Clemens probably did do steroids but with no physical evidence and with no testimony corroborating the trainer's statement, the evidence is inconclusive. There'd be a lot of innocent people in prison if we convicted defendants based solely on uncorroborated testimony of one witness. I'd say there's higher than a 90% chance that Clemens used steroids but we don't have enough proof to indicate that there's a 100% chance that he did. And the name calling here is really childish.

Posted by TMS:

& what the hell does Duquette have to do w/any of this? so because he told Clemens that he was done, that means he was done, is that it? he is suddenly the God of baseball as far as you're concerned... what he says goes... please, stop being silly.

The point of Duquette is as soon as he told Roger his career was over, according to the report Clemens supposedly started using, and it is reflected in his #s in Toronto.

Posted by TMS:

how about how his #'s levelled off over the 5 years he pitched in NY when the allegations were that he was still juicing? or should we only be focusing on the 2 years he had in TOR after some shlub who never played in the majors told 1 of the alltime HOF pitchers that he didn't have it anymore?

The report didn't say he was a constant user, but that he used for periods of 4-6 weeks at a time. Eventually age catches up no matter what drugs you are on.

Posted by TMS:

you seriously need to learn how to read... scroll up a few posts & see what i said about Clemens probably being guilty of using.

"no one has any evidence to prove anything to the contrary on either side... it's he said, he said at this point."

"well, after having watched the 60 minutes piece w/Mike Wallace, Roger sure makes a passionate case for his innocence... i seriously don't know what to believe at this point."

"of course i'm sure u'll tell me i'm being naive if i think he wasn't using throughout his career because you somehow have this solid evidence that points to his guilt... if that's the case i suggest you come out with it & present it to the media & make some money off it, cuz so far what's been made public is a whole lotta he said, he said type stuff that doesn't really prove much of anything."

Doesnt sound like you believe he did anything here. I know you are snipping at me saying of course I said he was guilty, but everything you post doesn't say that unless you are responding to me. So, it may be what you mean, but you have a poor way of saying(or typing) it.

Doesnt sound like you believe he did anything here. I know you are snipping at me saying of course I said he was guilty, but everything you post doesn't say that unless you are responding to me. So, it may be what you mean, but you have a poor way of saying(or typing) it.

Actually I think you have a poor way of *reading* it. TMS has been very clear that he thinks Roger DID use steroids but that there is not 100% proof that he did.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Doesnt sound like you believe he did anything here. I know you are snipping at me saying of course I said he was guilty, but everything you post doesn't say that unless you are responding to me. So, it may be what you mean, but you have a poor way of saying(or typing) it.

Actually I think you have a poor way of *reading* it. TMS has been very clear that he thinks Roger DID use steroids but that there is not 100% proof that he did.

he would only say that in response to my posts, but the ones i quoted say that no where.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

& what the hell does Duquette have to do w/any of this? so because he told Clemens that he was done, that means he was done, is that it? he is suddenly the God of baseball as far as you're concerned... what he says goes... please, stop being silly.

The point of Duquette is as soon as he told Roger his career was over, according to the report Clemens supposedly started using, and it is reflected in his #s in Toronto.

Posted by TMS:

how about how his #'s levelled off over the 5 years he pitched in NY when the allegations were that he was still juicing? or should we only be focusing on the 2 years he had in TOR after some shlub who never played in the majors told 1 of the alltime HOF pitchers that he didn't have it anymore?

The report didn't say he was a constant user, but that he used for periods of 4-6 weeks at a time. Eventually age catches up no matter what drugs you are on.

for the 1 millionth time, i believe it is LIKELY that he did use roids... the argument that you & your intelligent friend seem incapable of understanding here is that hearsay evidence cannot possibly be used to convict anyone beyond a shadow of a doubt.

the fact that the entire Mitchell report has been based on this hearsay testimony of a man of very questionable character who was once fired from the Yankees for having allegedly sexually assaulting a woman by administering a date rape drug & is now trying to stay out of jail by offering up names in this steroid investigation is a pathetic joke.

even more of a joke is the fact that Selig & MLB have actually endorsed this report without having any other solid factual information that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt these players' guilt & has thereby completely ruined their reputations & negatively effected their livelihoods when it was Selig & MLB that BENEFITTED all these years while KNOWINGLY endorsing these players!

like i said before, this entire Mitchell investigation & all the ridiculous grandstanding by Selig & by MLB is a complete farce... they would have been much better off simply commissioning a book as a private effort separate from the game instead of putting MLB's endorsement behind such shoddy evidence.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Doesnt sound like you believe he did anything here. I know you are snipping at me saying of course I said he was guilty, but everything you post doesn't say that unless you are responding to me. So, it may be what you mean, but you have a poor way of saying(or typing) it.

Actually I think you have a poor way of *reading* it. TMS has been very clear that he thinks Roger DID use steroids but that there is not 100% proof that he did.

he would only say that in response to my posts, but the ones i quoted say that no where.

So you found some passages where he didn't say what I just said and then quoted them. Who cares? How often do you need him to say it?!?!

Posted by TMS:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

& what the hell does Duquette have to do w/any of this? so because he told Clemens that he was done, that means he was done, is that it? he is suddenly the God of baseball as far as you're concerned... what he says goes... please, stop being silly.

The point of Duquette is as soon as he told Roger his career was over, according to the report Clemens supposedly started using, and it is reflected in his #s in Toronto.

Posted by TMS:

how about how his #'s levelled off over the 5 years he pitched in NY when the allegations were that he was still juicing? or should we only be focusing on the 2 years he had in TOR after some shlub who never played in the majors told 1 of the alltime HOF pitchers that he didn't have it anymore?

The report didn't say he was a constant user, but that he used for periods of 4-6 weeks at a time. Eventually age catches up no matter what drugs you are on.

for the 1 millionth time, i believe it is LIKELY that he did use roids... the argument that you & your intelligent friend seem incapable of understanding here is that hearsay evidence cannot possibly be used to convict anyone beyond a shadow of a doubt.

the fact that the entire Mitchell report has been based on this hearsay testimony of a man of very questionable character who was once fired from the Yankees for having allegedly sexually assaulting a woman by administering a date rape drug & is now trying to stay out of jail by offering up names in this steroid investigation is a pathetic joke.

even more of a joke is the fact that Selig & MLB have actually endorsed this report without having any other solid factual information that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt these players' guilt & has thereby completely ruined their reputations & negatively effected their livelihoods when it was Selig & MLB that BENEFITTED all these years while KNOWINGLY endorsing these players!

like i said before, this entire Mitchell investigation & all the ridiculous grandstanding by Selig & by MLB is a complete farce... they would have been much better off simply commissioning a book as a private effort separate from the game instead of putting MLB's endorsement behind such shoddy evidence.

Oh so you're now saying McNamee is of "questionable character" because he ALLEGEDLY was accused of sexually assaulting a woman, but, if he is of "questionable character," then what does that say for Roger Clemens who employed him?

Also, why would McNamee tell the truth about Andy but lie about Roger? Keep in mind, if McNamee is lying then he would go to jail. And don't you find Roger to be less than truthful when he says he had no clue Andy took HGH? How is that possible? Roger and McNamee were very tight and for Roger to say he was clueless about steroids, is beyond belief. Another lie.

Then Roger tells a lie when he says he had no idea he would be named in the Mitchell report, that he didn't find out until it was made public. Lie. In fact Roger was informed about the report, knew he was named and had a private investigator interview McNamee to find out what he said.

Why would Roger wait a month to file a lawsuit? Why was Roger not furious with McNamee on the phone? If you were accused of cheating when in fact you were not, wouldn't you be irate? Wouldn't you come out IMMEDIATELY and refute everything?

Now I guess according to you we can't say Roger is 100% guilty because of "hearsay," but, he sure as hell is a liar.