Posted by bitty41:
I guess only Rethug candidates are allowed to be associated with religious wackjobs? How many Rethug candidates have aligned themselves with the likes of the now deceased Jerry Falwell or Pat Roberston who both essentially said that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by angering God? Where was the outrage when our own President consulted Roberston on the eve of the Iraq Invasion?
Many people were outraged by those things, but they don't control the media. Look at all the presidential contests since about 1988. Every democratic candidate has had a load of shit dumped on them. A successful democratic candidate has to win in spite of these things. Clinton in '92 managed to do it, but had it not been for Perot, I doubt he'd have won.
I think the conditions are very favorable to the democratic nominee this year. The economy is terrible and McCain wants to keep us in Iraq for 100 years. But I expect the media to try to derail whoever the democratic nominee is.
[Edited by - basketballjones on 03-19-2008 14:27]
killa4 - what you said
well done as always
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by bitty41:
I guess only Rethug candidates are allowed to be associated with religious wackjobs? How many Rethug candidates have aligned themselves with the likes of the now deceased Jerry Falwell or Pat Roberston who both essentially said that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by angering God? Where was the outrage when our own President consulted Roberston on the eve of the Iraq Invasion?
Many people were outraged by those things, but they don't control the media. Look at all the presidential contests since about 1988. Every democratic candidate has had a load of shit dumped on them. A successful democratic candidate has to win in spite of these things. Clinton in '92 managed to do it, but had it not been for Perot, I doubt he'd have one.
I think the conditions are very favorable to the democratic nominee this year. The economy is terrible and McCain wants to keep us in Iraq for 100 years.
[Edited by - basketballjones on 03-19-2008 14:26]
I hope your right but I have very little faith after the last election particularly in my fellow citizen to make their choice for President based on his/her's issues and plans for this country versus their race or gender.
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by bitty41:
I guess only Rethug candidates are allowed to be associated with religious wackjobs? How many Rethug candidates have aligned themselves with the likes of the now deceased Jerry Falwell or Pat Roberston who both essentially said that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by angering God? Where was the outrage when our own President consulted Roberston on the eve of the Iraq Invasion?
Many people were outraged by those things, but they don't control the media. Look at all the presidential contests since about 1988. Every democratic candidate has had a load of shit dumped on them. A successful democratic candidate has to win in spite of these things. Clinton in '92 managed to do it, but had it not been for Perot, I doubt he'd have one.
I think the conditions are very favorable to the democratic nominee this year. The economy is terrible and McCain wants to keep us in Iraq for 100 years.
[Edited by - basketballjones on 03-19-2008 14:26]
I hope your right but I have very little faith after the last election particularly in my fellow citizen to make their choice for President based on his/her's issues and plans for this country versus their race or gender.
I'm hoping that the new , young voters will make a difference. These are really good kids.
When was the last time a President talked to the voters like adults?
The comparison to Bush's ability to string together more than one thought is stunning
I voted for Barack in the NJ primaries.. too bad he lost here. I hope he destroys Hillary. The man can bring some respectability back to the government, I hope. I just hope that as with many politicians, he's not spitting hyperbole and empty promises. If he does half the things he says he will, he will be a very good leader and hopefully for 2 terms.
Obama's getting reverse medicine. Nothing's safe when it comes to race, no matter what the race.
4949 - reverse medicine?
say what?
Where else would a Black Man be forced to defend himself, in passive tones, against institutionalized bias?
Barack better watch himself on that precarious tightrope. It has never been walked in history.
There is no safety net.
McCain's continued display of stupidity is bothersome.
Clinton's health care plan is downright scary, and she is leaning too far to the left in my opinion, representing the radical wing of the democratic party.
Now about this Jeremiah Wright, I knew about this guy for a while now, and he was the only thing that bothered me about Obama (not even just the guy but the entire church that Wright belongs to I'm not a fan of). Wright is a close friend of Farrakhan, and has gone to Libya to meet Kadafi. Of course Kadafi is now ok, as lives apparently do have a dollar price to the world community.
I was almost sold on Obama before he refused to quit the church. Guy went there for 20 years, and he never heard this type of sermons?
Its going to be a tough choice, I'm not decided, yet, leaning towards McCain right now in hope that he will have knowledgeable foreign policy aids. On a side note, McCain did distance himself from the right wing preachers who are no better than this Wright guy before, albeit he is now turtling on that to gain southern evangelical support. But at least I know he does not belong to a radical right wing congregation.
After this Obamas chances to win the presidency are over. While I do suspect that a lot of the people who are so upset about this are using it as an excuse to bring up the race card, lets be honest...if it were a white man going to a white church in the same context his campaign would be over.
Posted by TheSage:
Obama has lost the primary election in every major state which the democrats could win except Missouri and Illinois and has won in those states where it is unlikely that a democrat could win and those caucus states where a relatively few energetic supporters could carry the vote.
This is what scares me. Barrack will win the democratic nominee, but he is not winning the big democratic states. Most of the states that he is winning will vote republican on election night.
If people think the HIllary dynamics are something, then just wait until he goes across the board for president. That's if' he's nominated. This whole ordeal is nothing compared to what's coming. Mark the words.
And you just said a part of what's to come.
Posted by misterearl:
4949 - reverse medicine?
say what?
Where else would a Black Man be forced to defend himself, in passive tones, against institutionalized bias?
Barack better watch himself on that precarious tightrope. It has never been walked in history.
There is no safety net.
Was it fair for Hillary to take heat for what Bill said in S.C.? Nope! Is it fair for Obama to take heat for what his chicago pastor said? Nope! Yes, reversed medicine.
Your very right about that tight rope though. They're both on it.
Posted by simrud:
McCain's continued display of stupidity is bothersome.
Clinton's health care plan is downright scary, and she is leaning too far to the left in my opinion, representing the radical wing of the democratic party.
long to a radical right wing congregation.
McCain is going to try to scare people into voting for him. Usually works in the Republican party. No surprise at all.
And Clintons health care plan? I don't think you should worry about the the radical wing so much. Little do people know, she comes from a conservative family, and was raised conservative and became a Nixon supporter, for years. That was her up bringing. That's until Nixon said some things about King that she didn't agree with. And then she met Bill. So even though she (and Obama) have to play the game on a tight rope, it gets tricky as to where they truely stand. For any' politician runing for prez has to walk that rope. I think she'll be somewhere towards the middle when all is said and done. She has a track record for trying to get everyone' universal health care from years past.. She just never struck me as radical though.
But there's still a campaign to finish and nothing is written in stone yet. We'll have to wait and see.
Posted by izybx:
After this Obamas chances to win the presidency are over. While I do suspect that a lot of the people who are so upset about this are using it as an excuse to bring up the race card, lets be honest...if it were a white man going to a white church in the same context his campaign would be over.
What country do you live because its not the United States. I can list numerous politicans who are very much in bed with religious zealots yet their political careers are untouched and in many cases they are routinely reelected. So please know what your talking about before making race baiting statements.
Posted by 4949:
Posted by simrud:
McCain's continued display of stupidity is bothersome.
Clinton's health care plan is downright scary, and she is leaning too far to the left in my opinion, representing the radical wing of the democratic party.
long to a radical right wing congregation.
McCain is going to try to scare people into voting for him. Usually works in the Republican party. No surprise at all.
And Clintons health care plan? I don't think you should worry about the the radical wing so much. Little do people know, she comes from a conservative family, and was raised conservative and became a Nixon supporter, for years. That was her up bringing. That's until Nixon said some things about King that she didn't agree with. And then she met Bill. So even though she (and Obama) have to play the game on a tight rope, it gets tricky as to where they truely stand. For any' politician runing for prez has to walk that rope. I think she'll be somewhere towards the middle when all is said and done. She has a track record for trying to get everyone' universal health care from years past.. She just never struck me as radical though.
But there's still a campaign to finish and nothing is written in stone yet. We'll have to wait and see.
Basketballjones reading the comments in this thread is why I fear very much for this country. Many Americans still do not get it. They are more concerned with whose labeled Liberal or Conservative then they are with a candidate's plan for addressing the economic crisis, an unending
occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, the millions of Americans that have lost their homes or in the process of losing their homes, no these issues aren't important. But what is important is what a candidate's preacher said or if they are "too Liberal". How bad does it have to get for some people? I don't maybe when they are standing in a bread line and living in a Hooverville maybe then things will sink in for some people.
I don't give to craps about the war anymore. But I do care about what's going on with this economy and universal health care. People have already lost their homes, so there's not much anyone can do about that anymore. I want someone who already has a lot of experience in politics and not someone who is virtually an unknown.
Posted by 4949:
I don't give to craps about the war anymore. But I do care about what's going on with this economy and universal health care. People have already lost their homes, so there's not much anyone can do about that anymore. I want someone who already has a lot of experience in politics and not someone who is virtually an unknown.
Wow just wow what do you care about other then seeing Hilary Clinton elected? This kinda of thought process is why Bush got elected to two terms.
I haven't heard or seen the entire speech yet, but the excerpts I read were incredibly moving.
If that doesn't show his ability to take on attacks I don't know what else the man can do. Historians are saying that the speech is a rare moment in U.S. history where major political leaders take on such a subject in the manner in did.
For those who say he is only there because of his "race" one could also go that route as to whether Hillary, as a woman, would be there if she wasn't the wife of Bill Clinton.
The problem is that both responses evoke negative reaction to Affirmative Action, except some argue there has been affirmative action for white men for much longer. In other words, do white men not get privilege due to their gender and skin color.
Exhibit A: George Bush, Jr.
Obama is a man that is showing incredible poise against all of the expected negative strategies. Is he a "savior?" Perfect? No, and none of us should be so naive to think that, but I believe the manner in which he handles such situations seems to demonstrate more reason why he is qualified to be president. He uses grace, intelligence, wit, charisma, and what seems to be an honest approach to touchy subject matter with balance that is much lacking from most of our current leadership.
He seems to listen rather than tell, yet remain tough, which is another needed attribute missing.
I was very upset with the way the media blew up his minister's comments, but his response has thoroughly impressed me, even more than I already was. I haven't watched TV for the past few days as I am in the Bay Area visiting my cousin, but the reporting on the speeh seems to be very positive, so why is his campaign done?
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by 4949:
I don't give to craps about the war anymore. But I do care about what's going on with this economy and universal health care. People have already lost their homes, so there's not much anyone can do about that anymore. I want someone who already has a lot of experience in politics and not someone who is virtually an unknown.
Wow just wow what do you care about other then seeing Hilary Clinton elected? This kinda of thought process is why Bush got elected to two terms.
You criticize me for my political views? How dare you! And to compare me to Bush voters is pretty stupid also. You wanna vote for Obama, go ahead! I'm not going to tell you what to do.
I don't have to defend anyone. Let expeirence speak for itself!!!
As long as virtually all governments in the world regardless of ideology continue to base their economic policy on Keynes, you will have the same dynamics of bust and boom.
The current crisis happened because nobody had the incentives to care about long term returns. The CEO who gets a huge severance package did not care about long term.
The trades who get their bonuses in full had no incentive to care about the long term outlook of the companies they are affiliated with.
The mortgage brokers had no incentive to care about whether the loans are ever paid off.
But most importantly, we have become a culture that does not care about the long term consequences of our actions in general. At the end of the day, it was individuals who went out to buy huge homes they could not possibly afford, maxed out multiple credit cards, and did not save a penny towards their retirement.
We have become a culture in which the sense of personal responsibility has been greatly eroded. We expect the government to save for us with social security, the government to bail us out of our debt when we spend well beyond our means, and the government to take of our health. Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither.
As long as we base our economic policy on the ideas of a man who said that in the long run we are all dead, we will have the usual.
