Posted by bitty41:
Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:
Voting doesn't matter as long as there are Diebold Machines. Also, Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich would be the best fit if this were an honest election, but it's not and the media has a big part in making people decide who to vote for. McCain is horrible as is Hillary and Obama. America should be about Freedom and not about Dictatorship. Hillary in my honest opinion is a LIAR. They all are except for Ron and Dennis. Atleast Ron and Dennis woke a lot of people up to many truths. It's something to build upon. No matter who is picked in this election it's going to be the same thing. They all are funded by lobbyists. Ron and Dennis were not. These politicians are F__KING scum.
Kucinich I agree with many of his views but this country is entirely too conservative to ever treat him as legitimate presidential candidate. However Ron Paul makes me very uneasy and some of his views have racist overtones to them.
Interesting. And I no virtually nothing of Ron Paul.
Hey' we're forgetting another factor for prez. Ralph Nader has started an exploritory again. You can wipe out about one to two percent of the vote right threre, in favor of the Republicans.
If it's close, like the last two elections, it might make the difference. This guy is so destructive and he's doing it on purpose. Now there's someone we should all' be bashing.
Posted by simrud:
In my opinion she is scary in her leanings towards the far left.
This is a joke, right?
She's about as right wing as you can get while still being a democrat.
Posted by markvmc:
Posted by simrud:
In my opinion she is scary in her leanings towards the far left.
This is a joke, right?
She's about as right wing as you can get while still being a democrat.
Is this' a joke? She's pushing the opposite of what the bush regime is pushing.
HC receives funding from health insurance companies. HC voted for the war. She also voted to establis the Homeland Security department, and the PATRIOT act.
Don't get me wrong. If I could vote here, I'd vote for either her or Obama.
But far left.... IF ONLY.
On the war vote, I dont' know how many times it has to be corected, but most of the voters voted for the war, because they where led to beleive the where WMD there. If people remember, when bush got into the white house, there was this fear of backlash if you went against his regime. They took advantage of the devastation that went down on 9/11. It was a scary time. I remember a lot of the senate had a lot of pressure on them to vote one way or another. Even Obama admitted he wasn't sure what he would have done, if' that report is correct.
I know MIchael Moore pointed it out about her recieving money from the health insurance companies, but like I say, it's a game and if you want to be one of the big boys (in this case, girl) then you have to play the game. She took the money, just as all powerful politicians take monies to play the game. Let me put it to you this way. If she didnt' accept all of that money from major givers, then she woulddn't have a campaign right now. There would be no Clinton-Obama match.
It is true that she did as you say, but make clear the facts behind why' she did it.
I dont' know what to say about the patriot act, maybe for the same reasons, but I still believe she is in the middle. You almost have to be, to be able to try to bring people from all sides together to make tthings happen. I believe she will use' that power to do good for the people if she is able to acquire it. If she had not tried on the universal health care thing years ago, then I would even give her a second thought.
And I will disclose one more fact for you folks. The Clinton's, when Bill was in power, as far as I konw have done more for minority people than any other president has done before. This is the main reason I want her to win. Don't get me wrong. I like Obama, but for me experience (her experience aned contacts) I think will serve us best for now. Besides, I always believed that this country needs some nurturing before we put another man back into the white house, if ever again.
Left wing? right wing? Where is my compass?
So anybody wanna list Hilary's experience?
The WMD excuse is bogus. There was no evidence. Any alleged evidence that was brought to the public was exposed as bogus before the invasion. Many people saw this; why couldn't she? If someone in a private capacity wants to believe that Iraq was a threat, based on the administrations's PR, that's fine. But if someone wants to be taken seriously as a Presidential Candidate, the "They Told Me Iraq Was A Threat" line is just inexcusable.
I'm not clear why she voted for the PATRIOT act. My guess is that it was out of fear that it would seem unpatriotic to vote against it. But voting for a bill that allows the government to suspend Habeas Corpus, detain people without trial, and investigate people's library records is hardly far left, now is it?
Anyway, like I say, if She's the candidate, I want her to win. My point is only that it is laughable to see her as far left.
[Edited by - markvmc on 03-19-2008 8:38 PM]
Posted by EnySpree:
Left wing? right wing? Where is my compass?
So anybody wanna list Hilary's experience?
Obama first.
Hilary is in her second term as a Senator, right?
That's hardly very experienced. I'm not sure; is it much more experienced than Obama?
Posted by markvmc:
The WMD excuse is bogus. There was no evidence. Any alleged evidence that was brought to the public was exposed as bogus before the invasion. Many people saw this; why couldn't she? If someone in a private capacity wants to believe that Iraq was a threat, based on the administrations's PR, that's fine. But if someone wants to be taken seriously as a Presidential Candidate, the "They Told Me Iraq Was A Threat" line is just inexcusable.
I'm not clear why she voted for the PATRIOT act. My guess is that it was out of fear that it would seem unpatriotic to vote against it. But voting for a bill that allows the government to suspend Habeas Corpus, detain people without trial, and investigate people's library records is hardly far left, now is it?
Anyway, like I say, if She's the candidate, I want her to win. My point is only that it is laughable to see her as far left.
[Edited by - markvmc on 03-19-2008 8:38 PM]
Hey just hold on here a minute dude. Are you suggesting that eveyone in Washington saw that there was no WMD, except Hillary? That's lame dude. I didnt' mention the public. I said people voting on it, in Washington. There was real pressure and fear of political careers at that time. It's not as simple as your making it sound.
And for the patriot act stuff, and habius corpus, I find it convenient with you not to go after Obama or anyone else for that matter on what they wouldv'e done. It's always easy for people to go after the person holding the bag. Be a little more fair about what you say about Hillary. She is a woman playing a mans game. Remember that.
It's kind of ironic, as I write this, the ad above is 'anti-bush stickers'.
No, I'm not suggesting that everyone in Washington saw this except Hilary. I'm simply saying that she voted for the war in the absence of any evidence to suggest that Iraq was a threat. The other folk who voted the same way are just as bad.
As for the PATRIOT act, I've no idea what Obama would have done. But I do know what Hilary did do. And that counts.
Not sure where you get the idea that I'm an Obama supporter from either.
Posted by markvmc:
Hilary is in her second term as a Senator, right?
That's hardly very experienced. I'm not sure; is it much more experienced than Obama?
She was Bills wife, when he was Attorney General of Arkansas
She was first Lady of Arkansas, when Bill was Governor for ten years
She was first Lady of the United States, when Bill was president for eight years
And now She's served two terms of her own as Senator of New York and running for President\
If that isn't experience, then I don't know what is. How does Obama's one term senate compare?
So she's experienced at being a President's wife?
Given that we're bringing Bill into it, since she gets his experience, does she also get to take blame for some of the most crippling welfare reforms ever carried out by a democratic president? For continuing the devastating bombing on Iraq after the first Iraq war? For all of Bill's bizarre presidential pardons at the end of his second term? For selling out gays in the military?
I knew you'd say that, so I got a good come back for ya. You and I and everyone in the whole world knows that this woman didn't just sit around in an office all day playing with her thumbs. She's been very active in her husbands campaigns and has met a lot of lot of people. She has the proof, she has the records to show it.
Why in today's NYPost it was reported that there are welll over 11,000 documents to show that she was active all over the world, when the Bill-Monica thing was going down. Those where papers presented to show that she wasn't a part of a conspiracy that bush's henchmen, Ken Star was out to get them. He tried to pull her into his mess and today, there it is. In black and white. Proof that she was very active as First Lady.
I'm starting to think this isn't going to convince you either that she has experience, is it?
Posted by markvmc:
So she's experienced at being a President's wife?
Given that we're bringing Bill into it, since she gets his experience, does she also get to take blame for some of the most crippling welfare reforms ever carried out by a democratic president? For continuing the devastating bombing on Iraq after the first Iraq war? For all of Bill's bizarre presidential pardons at the end of his second term? For selling out gays in the military?
You and all of the other Clinton attackers will make damn sure she does pay for his mis-deeds. Do we blame bush's wife for everything that's gone wrong with this Iraq war and his horrible record as President? Of course not!
But why is it impossible to take advantage of the power of your husband, to do other things, while he's fucking it up?
The point is, she's gotten the experience, through Bill, despite his mis-deeds. And as you said earlier 'that counts'.
49... uh what?
Are you really making the argument that the Hillster was learning how to be president by being married to Bill the whole time. Does that mean Jennifer Flowers and friggin' Dress Stain McGee are experienced enough to run for town council because of their time with Bill?
Her biggest claim of involvement was the health care plan which was a massive disaster. We could have had health care if she had listened to anyone else's opinion. Its her damn fault. She was a divider then, and is a divider now and will never ever get anything done in government.
She claims to have healed Ireland for god's sake after a nice little tea party she had over there.
She made visit to Yugoslavia to heal that area, oh and who else went on that all-important trip? Sinbad
Hillary and Bill are destroying themselves and the party and its terrible to watch.
That's total bullshit 4949.......experience through being a first lady? That's not a goverment office. No way man......its president of the united states not president and wife of the united states. If being first lady is considered experience I'm moving to Cuba.
O-OO! The bashers are here. Responding the best way they know how. Say hello to Castro for me, will ya.
I already made the argument. If you's don't want to take it into account, then that's okay. Others watcing will probably be interested in it. Good luck with your Obama campaign.
Posted by JohnWallace44:
We could have had health care if she had listened to anyone else's opinion.
Don't you mean if she had just acted like a woman and did what she was told to do?
All your doing is bashing Mr John Wallace #44. Not even a shred of proof to back it up. This is all you negative Obama followers do is bash. And you blame her for dividing the party. Your bashing has turned me and many others off completely.
Posted by 4949:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
We could have had health care if she had listened to anyone else's opinion.
Don't you mean if she had just acted like a woman and did what she was told to do?
All your doing is bashing Mr John Wallace #44. Not even a shred of proof to back it up. This is all you negative Obama followers do is bash. And you blame her for dividing the party. Your bashing has turned me and many others off completely.
Are you serious? This woman gives a terrible name to women everywhere. Flip on the news any day of the week and her tone towards Obama is completely different. One day he's God's gift to America and she's honored to run with him. The next day, hey maybe he's a Muslim who's never done anything. Then the next day she wants him to be VP.
She tried to make the argument that caucuses are unamerican and shouldn't count.
Dole and Moynahan were ready to put a health care plan on the table that would have passed, but the Clintons wouldn't take in anyone else's ideas. Now we're supposed to believe that she's the right one to do it 15 years later.
She is terrible and a disgrace to the party. If she takes this thing through some back channel dealings then the Democratic party will splinter around her and there will be a third party that will start up behind guys like Bloomberg.
