NBA · 2 Yrs Of College To Be Mandated By The NBA (page 3)

Posted by BigSm00th:

i love how foxsports erroneously reported that, does anyone else find that funny/ironic?

martin/andrew, so this thing is not true?

Looks like a false report. The annoucement was about youth camps.

[url="http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0408amateurhoops0408.html"]Link[/url]

Posted by playa2:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

its not race its business. Your insulting everyone's intelligence buy suggesting its racially motivated. The fact that the majority of the talent is black is coincidental.

Of the HS players that have declared in the past maybe 2 in 10 are close to contributing to the NBA. Most float for a few years before being ready. Some totally fade and lose any chance they might have had at a free education in the first place. For every Bynum and Kobe and Lebron there are 5 James Langs, Gerald Greens, Ricky Sanchez, guys that SHOULD have USED the NCAA for a free education.

The tendency is always to look at the Lebrons of the system and harp on the those (like there are so many). The simple fact is most black male basketball players in the NCAA are not going to the NBA, yet the vast majority are getting an education because they play.

Tell me again why thats wrong? Because their sport generates revenue for the college? We just watched a 64 team tourney. Thats over 800 players. How many will be in the NBA in the next 2-3 years? 10? 20? Yet how many will have a chance to get a degree and not have to pay a dime for it? 500? 600? And this is about race? About the man keeping you down? Please.

There are so many examples of racism to choose from (sadly) and this is what you come up with? Lame

They're getting a degree but not an education. Is that really a good thing?

Bonn posters don't care about these young men getting an education, just like the NCAA doesn't care. As long as they entertain for free it's all good.



[Edited by - playa2 on 08-04-2008 09:01]

playa, what do you care about? Your arguement started saying that not letting kids come out early is racist because it only affects black men. Then your saying nobody cares about the same groups education. Which is it?

And why should caring about their education fall on anyone besides the student? Show up to class and work hard. You getting a $100k gift and a great start at life.

Whats your agenda amigo?

Two quick points.

1) I think this is a great thing to help the image of the league. This is ultimately a business, and Stern has every right to protect that.

2) Playa, give it a rest. When you cry wolf about every issue in the world, nobody wants to listen. People who actually believe that would be the same people who were complaining that the NBA players having to wear suits was a racist decision. Absurd.

OK i'm done with it, majority rules

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

its not race its business. Your insulting everyone's intelligence buy suggesting its racially motivated. The fact that the majority of the talent is black is coincidental.

Of the HS players that have declared in the past maybe 2 in 10 are close to contributing to the NBA. Most float for a few years before being ready. Some totally fade and lose any chance they might have had at a free education in the first place. For every Bynum and Kobe and Lebron there are 5 James Langs, Gerald Greens, Ricky Sanchez, guys that SHOULD have USED the NCAA for a free education.

The tendency is always to look at the Lebrons of the system and harp on the those (like there are so many). The simple fact is most black male basketball players in the NCAA are not going to the NBA, yet the vast majority are getting an education because they play.

Tell me again why thats wrong? Because their sport generates revenue for the college? We just watched a 64 team tourney. Thats over 800 players. How many will be in the NBA in the next 2-3 years? 10? 20? Yet how many will have a chance to get a degree and not have to pay a dime for it? 500? 600? And this is about race? About the man keeping you down? Please.

There are so many examples of racism to choose from (sadly) and this is what you come up with? Lame

They're getting a degree but not an education. Is that really a good thing?

2 things bonny:

1) How do you qualify getting an education vs getting a degree? And is this concept really related and focused on student athletes or anyone who shows up at a college/university?
2) Is this a system that forces MORE student athletes into a position to even BE in college or is it a by-product of being in the right place at the right time and taking the best financial advantage of what you can?

Generally, scholarship'ed student athletes - the ones that really make money for the schools - Webber, Rose, whomever - can all stay for 4 years with free tuition, meals, coaches, TUTORS, room, and extra cash that they and their families get. (Since when did slaves EVER get treated this way Playa?)

Yes the NBA is out to oppress the black man [wait a second did I read this rule was contained to african americans only?] by wanting to make sure the athletes they bring in are more prepared mentally and phsically? Honestly I think this rule will help many more people than it hurts. You are only talking about a few individuals who can play NBA basketball at that age anyway. How about all of the players who have no chance to make the NBA and are given FREE rides to school---that's a nice 30-50+ benefit that people take for granted. I am in the camp if you can die for your country at 18 you should be able to do anything else including drink alchol. That being said --in reality it's a good rule--not a racial or oppresive one.

I can see the NBA might raise the rookie scale to the top picks.

Might that be a concession to get "Back Wages"?

How many kids are we really talking about here anyway each year? 10 MAYBE?

I think EUro teams don't want americans on their team. What do they allow, one or two per roster? And you think if SOME kids can't handle living on a college campus they can handle living in a different country?

I think kids like Lampe and Darko who were both Semi pros by age 16 were robbed of their youth and developement.

If kids can't read when they leave high school, you think this makes it better? Hockey kids go semi pro at 16 like Crosby did and stay with a host family. They don't really study all that much. That might suit Sid just fine but not all the players make it big.

Lebron was a total freak of nature and would have been a star in any situation. Maybe he would do well in Europe. But Kwame?

I don't think this is racist as we are talking about perhaps more kids staying in an academic environment and perhaps getting more out of it. THe good ones will go to the better programs and be very well prepared for a pro career.

In fact one might say some kids who go early and fail might be much better had they stayed in a college environment as opposed to living out of a holiday inn express making 40k per year and still not learning to read.

Lebron was destined to star, Rashard Lewis fell and did not get a good contract and had he perhaps shined in the NCAA he likley would have been a lotto pick.

Maybe for each kid that gets hurt a little (like I said, Increase the rookie scale) one gets to benefit.

Kwame might have fallen and Amare would be the top pick. One benefits, one becomes drops in value.

Maybe the definition of "student athlete" needs be redefined. Perhaps an "athletic Scholarship degree" could be EARNED by a player that perhaps goes thru 2 years like an associates that at least has some academic benefit.

You guys seem to be all for the corporate suits who gamble and make the wrong investments choices, by trying to cover for their investments blunders and not the player who immediately wins the lottery to help provide for he and his family instead of waitng 2 yrs knowing anything can happen with the economy being so unstable.

Listen, if you are multi million dollar franchise company and you don't take the time to THORUGHLY evaluate a future investment(employee),IMHO you are just down right slothful and pathetic and deserve any bad return that investment that you recieve.

In the business world outside of sports if an owner made multi million dollar investments without doing a complete check, most of you would just label them as a half-witted business owner and have no empathy for them.

Posted by fishmike:

its not race its business. Your insulting everyone's intelligence buy suggesting its racially motivated.

That's not a revolutionary thing to say what i did, and it's not to be insulting, but people of color sometimes over analyze racial aspects and whites under analyze...two sides of the same cone.

"I am in the camp if you can die for your country at 18 you should be able to do anything else including drink alchol. That being said --in reality it's a good rule--not a racial or oppresive one." -- if the NBA were run by the US government it'd be one thing. i think fishmike said it, the NBA is a business and stern (representing the owners) is making sure that the product stays top notch.

playa, what is your retort to the fact that a guy like lebron james or carmelo anthony or, say, lance stephenson who is only a JR in HS right now, what prohibits these guys from signing w/ a spanish or italian team for 2 years? they'd make a TON of money, and they'd be free to enter the draft once they were able to w/ some cash in their pocket.

The estimation of $10 million is, of course, just that. But Derrick Rose should probably give David Stern a huge hug when his name gets called during the first 30 or so minutes of the NBA draft in June. Rose, even if Memphis wins, seems like a one-and-done player, and with his ridiculous NCAA tournament (can you have negative turnovers, like in a positive fashion?) he has not only vaulted Memphis to the title game, but jacked up his draft status as well. And Darren Rovell is estimating that his superb play has made him roughly ten mil.

It's hard to say where Rose might have went had the rule not have existed--each guru has his own site -- but let's say, for argument sake, a pre-college Rose would have gone third. Where does he go after tonight's Championship Game? Possibly first. Possibly second. Maybe third. But the fact is that this tournament has given him a great marketing platform that the likes of O.J. Mayo and Michael Beasley obviously won't realize.

So before we even start with projecting how far Rose rose and how his rookie scale might have jumped up, I'm saying his shoe deal over a six year contract is up $10 million from the tourney alone. Tonight is a great opportunity for a kid like Rose as a guy like Carmelo Anthony has proven in years past.



that is from this article:

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/04/07/one-and-done-rule-may-have-made-derrick-rose-a-cool-10-million-b/

Posted by BigSm00th:

"I am in the camp if you can die for your country at 18 you should be able to do anything else including drink alchol. That being said --in reality it's a good rule--not a racial or oppresive one." -- if the NBA were run by the US government it'd be one thing. i think fishmike said it, the NBA is a business and stern (representing the owners) is making sure that the product stays top notch.

playa, what is your retort to the fact that a guy like lebron james or carmelo anthony or, say, lance stephenson who is only a JR in HS right now, what prohibits these guys from signing w/ a spanish or italian team for 2 years? they'd make a TON of money, and they'd be free to enter the draft once they were able to w/ some cash in their pocket.

They would have to do just that, but my question is why do we treat are athletes, different than Europe ? They euro's play in their own backyard enviorment(easy transition) make money and then if good enough vault to the NBA.

Americans kids have to work for no salary in college and then gets penalized if they get caught receiving cash from a booster.

You say it's not a race thing, when 90% of the league is black. ok if that's what you want to believe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from boogieman(knickscity)

Let me tell you a story about a kid from East St. Louis, my hometown, named Darius Miles (nick named Dirty Miles cause his clothes were always dirty). He grew up in the worst rat infested projects you could ever imagine. His mom was dirt poor, ill and unemployed. He used to play pickup games in Lincoln Park for money and was for the most part unbeatable, a 6'9" linky kid with pg handles and a 7' footers wingspan and Dunking over everybody!

The catch, he wasn't the smartest kid, and couldn't score high enough on his ACT to get into the right college program and believe it or not, had nobody to direct him as to what to do.

Darius played at the 7up shoot out, a local tourney in St. Louis and dunked on so many other national top rated college prospects and McDonald all Americans when he was in the 11th grade! He had 47 points and 18 rebs in the chip game.

He was invited to the McDonald game his Senior year and put on another dribbling and dunkfest. He was approached by NBA scouts and it changed his life, his moms life and probably genarations of people in his family.
FU*$ck college if you are good enough to make it to the pros, D.Miles gift is basketball not General Studies which is what most NBA bound players major in.


And my point is nobody is making the NBA franchises draft these kids.

Why don't they let them play in the D-League and upgrade that as a true minor league system where young guy learn how to get a little money and learn how to work hard for the big payday in the pro's.

The nba knows the younger the player, the more money they are able to make long term with the new contracts and extensions.

As a business man(player) I would want to get paid as soon as possible. Remember it's a business for everyone players and owners loyalty has left a long time ago .

[Edited by - playa2 on 08-04-2008 20:41]

Posted by BRIGGS:

Yes the NBA is out to oppress the black man [wait a second did I read this rule was contained to african americans only?] by wanting to make sure the athletes they bring in are more prepared mentally and phsically? Honestly I think this rule will help many more people than it hurts. You are only talking about a few individuals who can play NBA basketball at that age anyway. How about all of the players who have no chance to make the NBA and are given FREE rides to school---that's a nice 30-50+ benefit that people take for granted. I am in the camp if you can die for your country at 18 you should be able to do anything else including drink alchol. That being said --in reality it's a good rule--not a racial or oppresive one.

Briggs the league is 90% black not white or euro

(eastflat)says
If it were about getting an education , or even helping the kids...why not mandate a college degree? Like any other professional job?

But that sounds crazy right? What does graduating with a degree in poultry science (texas a&m) have to do with basketball? Nothing. So I don't know how an arbitrary year or two in college helps anyone.

Again, if it were about the kids, then there wouldn't be athletic scholarships and pro prospects would all go to a developmental league and not use fake ass student athletics.



[Edited by - playa2 on 08-04-2008 20:48]

Posted by playa2:

There should be an alternative to playing in the NCAA bitty, why is that so hard to understand.

Isiah f'ed that up to, it was called the CBA.

no he didn't it went bankrpt
and the dleaque would to its losing money the nba is just flushing it in the toilet just like the wnba
thomas was trying to sell the cba to the nba and they didn't want to do it
why do you think david stern hate thomas so much?

good. the quality of players coming into the league these days is pathetic. 90% of the players don't know how to play basketball. they need to stop letting these 1-year kids into the league who have no idea how to play.

Posted by highfivesucka:

good. the quality of players coming into the league these days is pathetic. 90% of the players don't know how to play basketball. they need to stop letting these 1-year kids into the league who have no idea how to play.

What do you mean "they need to stop letting them in", NBA franchises don't have to draft them to play in the NBA out of highschool, SET UP A PROPER Well run MINOR LEAGUE LIKE BASEBALL AND HOCKEY .

Posted by martin:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

its not race its business. Your insulting everyone's intelligence buy suggesting its racially motivated. The fact that the majority of the talent is black is coincidental.

Of the HS players that have declared in the past maybe 2 in 10 are close to contributing to the NBA. Most float for a few years before being ready. Some totally fade and lose any chance they might have had at a free education in the first place. For every Bynum and Kobe and Lebron there are 5 James Langs, Gerald Greens, Ricky Sanchez, guys that SHOULD have USED the NCAA for a free education.

The tendency is always to look at the Lebrons of the system and harp on the those (like there are so many). The simple fact is most black male basketball players in the NCAA are not going to the NBA, yet the vast majority are getting an education because they play.

Tell me again why thats wrong? Because their sport generates revenue for the college? We just watched a 64 team tourney. Thats over 800 players. How many will be in the NBA in the next 2-3 years? 10? 20? Yet how many will have a chance to get a degree and not have to pay a dime for it? 500? 600? And this is about race? About the man keeping you down? Please.

There are so many examples of racism to choose from (sadly) and this is what you come up with? Lame

They're getting a degree but not an education. Is that really a good thing?

Generally, scholarship'ed student athletes - the ones that really make money for the schools - Webber, Rose, whomever - can all stay for 4 years with free tuition, meals, coaches, TUTORS, room, and extra cash that they and their families get. (Since when did slaves EVER get treated this way Playa?)

The policy is racist in comaprison to other sports and based on the level of exploitation and who is getting exploited. You don't have a problem with it? that's your perrogative. In two years, injury, family stability and tragedy can change everything.


It's not fair to make a talent like Lebron wait and risk injury and at the same time it's not fair to have Korleone Young throw a college education away. But, at the end of the day, let's not kid ourselves, say this isn't about race, it isn't about education - it's really about money. NBA vets can continue to make money by keeping kids out.

NBA teams can continue to make money by getting free marketing/advertising for their future stars via the NCAA.

NCAA schools can continue to make money by keeping stars in their game and getting more revenues from the NCAA tournament.
If any of these guys really gave a crap about education, they'd make it a four or five year rule. Clearly, they don't.

Posted by playa2:

Posted by highfivesucka:

good. the quality of players coming into the league these days is pathetic. 90% of the players don't know how to play basketball. they need to stop letting these 1-year kids into the league who have no idea how to play.

What do you mean "they need to stop letting them in", NBA franchises don't have to draft them to play in the NBA out of highschool, SET UP A PROPER Well run MINOR LEAGUE LIKE BASEBALL AND HOCKEY .

They did.

Playa, What about Football. Why not them?

Kids not big enough yet? Fast enough yet? Can't take the pounding?

Might say that about Basketball. Shaun livingston got his money, and it might have happened in school, but he has been slight and injury prone from day one.

Did the NBA have to draft him? No. Could he have gone lower in the draft? Yeah, but then that defeats his purpose, so he'd be better off going to Duke for a year or two.

I think the high schools have to do a bettef job with these kids, and the fact of private schools recruiting them creates competition so a kid who is on track for the NBA does not want to do the work, and maybe the family (if there is one)is not pushing them either.

I Think that Basketball cannot solve the ill's of literacy with these kids so it boils down to What the NBA is doing to protect the quality of its athletes coming in and reduce instances that can hurt business. Having more mature men regardless of the race and backgound makes for a more solid investment, a more professional attitude that the athlete understands his responsablity to his team, family and his body all year long.

Is it perfect? no. Can they go to europe? Only if they want the player. Will they develope in europe like they could at one of the 10 major programs? Doubt it. The owners don't give a flying phuck about the player in many euro teams.

Thats why we have yet to even see a kid go over and even bypass his rookie contract for bigger money. Its not offered and it can be very tough for a kid who has not traveled much.

Playa, you think and kid who can't read and write, has a tough family situation, can just pick up and live alone in another country?

And if the economic model of minor league does not justify major expansion then it won't work. In baseball and hockey look at the attendance. Even in the lower teams. They make money.

Who is minor league ball in competition with? NBA, NCAA division one, two, three, and the high schools. All have local community ties that binds them. Look at the attendance of the ABA? Very small. But they exist, but they can't pay much.

And, as young kid with potential is gonna be playing with Lenny or Omar Cook who is just trying to light it up and get numbers? Inexperienced coaches who don't have a 10 person staff to assist the developement nor abundant quality time for practice also limits the viabilty of an effective minor league. IN baseball they don't bounce around day to day for games. In hockey, the top minor teams the players are former NHL players and blue chip players under big contracts payed by the pro club and they are near quality caliber already.

THe big difference is those clubs attract 6,000 per nite in attendance and can afford to keep it going.

NCAA gets big money from big crowds, and the bigger programs have a quality staff that can both nurture an immature kid and they will play basketball all year long and develope.

Thats a pretty good deal!

If the true goal was to keep the interest of the student athlete in mind, then they would make the players stay for four years. I would not have a problem with that. The two years are just pandering and have nothing to do with the kids best interest. Do you know what classes Greg Oden took? In Two years the kid can take all electives at 12 credits a semseter. 48 credits or 16 classes of liberal crap. I bet there are schools that will create more classes on fluff to accomodate this crap just to give the kid enough time to make the school and the NCAA an Pocket full of money while the NBA waits in the wings for a better NBA ready product.

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by playa2:

Posted by highfivesucka:

good. the quality of players coming into the league these days is pathetic. 90% of the players don't know how to play basketball. they need to stop letting these 1-year kids into the league who have no idea how to play.

What do you mean "they need to stop letting them in", NBA franchises don't have to draft them to play in the NBA out of highschool, SET UP A PROPER Well run MINOR LEAGUE LIKE BASEBALL AND HOCKEY .

They did.

Playa, What about Football. Why not them?


to be an NFL player, college and training are essential. Increasing your maximum weightlifting, speed, weather endurance and ferocity is only achieved through training and college football players stay in school longer than basketball players. come out of high school at 18 and take a hit from a Reggie Lewis, Junior Seau or Mike Strahan at 18 and see where you end up. 18 year olds can get on that floor with the NBA players because the contact is not as extensive.





I think the high schools have to do a bettef job with these kids, and the fact of private schools recruiting them creates competition so a kid who is on track for the NBA does not want to do the work, and maybe the family (if there is one)is not pushing them either.

I Think that Basketball cannot solve the ill's of literacy with these kids so it boils down to What the NBA is doing to protect the quality of its athletes coming in and reduce instances that can hurt business. Having more mature men regardless of the race and backgound makes for a more solid investment, a more professional attitude that the athlete understands his responsablity to his team, family and his body all year long.





Thats why we have yet to even see a kid go over and even bypass his rookie contract for bigger money. Its not offered and it can be very tough for a kid who has not traveled much.

Playa, you think and kid who can't read and write, has a tough family situation, can just pick up and live alone in another country?

And if the economic model of minor league does not justify major expansion then it won't work. In baseball and hockey look at the attendance. Even in the lower teams. They make money.

NCAA gets big money from big crowds, and the bigger programs have a quality staff that can both nurture an immature kid and they will play basketball all year long and develope.

Thats a pretty good deal!

college basketball shouldn't be the classroom. A minor league should. College basketball is a farce that is pretending its a league of students playing basketball, when it's really ball players who are "supposed" to go to class to.

My point is that there needs to be a "TRUE MINOR league because the system now prevent athletes from doing what they want to do, and it hurts real students, who essentially pay for school's to bring in players.

I'm just saying, when going to college isn't a choice, but just a way to get to the NBA, everyone suffers EXCEPT for the NBA and NCAA bottomline.

And yes, that's good for them, I guess they are businesses, but call a spade a spade then and don't pull all these Lenny Cooke sob stories as the reason