Ok, so this is definitely off topic, but we've had good conversations on off topic things in the past here, so here goes... I was curious if anyone works with any outsourced or offshored workers? In my case, I work with developers in Ukraine. Their arrogance is astounding. They are clueless on a lot of things, which is fine. I've never had a problem with inexperienced workers. However, they just defend and defend, even though it's obvious that they have no knowledge of the topic. A lot of the time, they don't work on what is assigned or are late to get started. Furthermore, the lying just kills me. They make up stuff all the time, and provide misinformation to various people in the company, especially when they CC the CEO with this misinformation or spam half the company. For example, things like "we contacted so-and-so once every two weeks on this issue" when nobody was ever notified, and there's email records to prove so. I am pretty confident, that were it not for the fact that their salaries are considerably less, that they would've been terminated long ago.
So, I have a few questions.
A) Has anyone encountered this?
B) Do you think these are just cultural issues or issues with these individual workers?
C) Any tips for handling?
They are just really over protective about their culture. A way to handle it,is to become friends with them, find a way to relate to them and then they will do everything as asked. At the same time, it may n ot have anything to do with the culture and they can just be lazy people who will say anything to have you say ok and leave.(I was born here but my family is from Ukraine).
Capitalistic accountability is much different culture than socialist/Communist lack of.
They need to sign off on all things. Thats the only way to deal with timelines.
Just document all your communications and request the same. They won't. Its about credibility. Create yours and let the rest fall where it may.
Also, create situations where you can make others look good. It takes some humility but you can't just go off laying blame on those whom might deserve it. Its your job to get a task done even if it means dealing with these arse holes. In the end your only going to be judged whether you got it done, not the obsticles that prevented you.
Posted by anklebraker:
They are just really over protective about their culture. A way to handle it,is to become friends with them, find a way to relate to them and then they will do everything as asked. At the same time, it may n ot have anything to do with the culture and they can just be lazy people who will say anything to have you say ok and leave.(I was born here but my family is from Ukraine).
Thanks for the response. I'm not sure how to relate to them. At every juncture they think of others and myself as the enemy and new accusations come flying out, which are almost always unfounded. If I were to let them implement their ideas, the product would fail.
I guess it would be different, but their inexperience combined with the arrogance is their biggest crutch. There are a lot of areas where they just don't have the experience to know that choice A may be an A approach, choice B may be a B+ approach, choice C may be a C- approach and their idea may be a D- or F approach. So, instead of cooperating they just argue and argue and don't get things done.
Do you think it's possible to get them to work in a team environment or is trying this just a waste of time? So far it has been, but I'm not sure if there's an alternate approach that could be applied. There's been a lot of insubordination from their side. To some extent, the problem is the company, because the foreign workers are allowed a pass due to their cheap salaries.
I've worked with two different groups of developers in India. The first group were just not very customer oriented. They just didn't understand how to do business with people in the U.S. They had a good client that could have provided a steady stream of income for years and they blew it by being arrogant and mistrustful.
The group I'm working with now is not so bad. It's just difficult working with someone who is in such a different time zone, but it's going okay. I more or less have to do troubleshooting and bug identification because these things are revealed during working hours.
They charge much less than I do, but they are also less productive so I don't think the client is saving much money by using them instead of me. However, in the case of the project they are doing, I'm just as happy to have someone else do it. I've got enough to keep me busy.
There are arrogant assholes everywhere.
[Edited by - basketballjones on 01-11-2009 15:53]
You guys should be happy you have jobs. I got laid off for the second time in 8 months last Wednesday (both IT jobs.)
Posted by nyk4ever:
You guys should be happy you have jobs. I got laid off for the second time in 8 months last Wednesday (both IT jobs.)
sorry to hear man. go into porn.
Posted by nyk4ever:
You guys should be happy you have jobs. I got laid off for the second time in 8 months last Wednesday (both IT jobs.)
Nyk, we may have an open position at my company. It's a gaming company. Are you open to working in Manhattan? If so, I can pass a resume along if you're interested. Our IT/Systems guy is a buddy of mine. I'll put in a good word.
Posted by Solace:
Posted by nyk4ever:
You guys should be happy you have jobs. I got laid off for the second time in 8 months last Wednesday (both IT jobs.)
Nyk, we may have an open position at my company. It's a gaming company. Are you open to working in Manhattan? If so, I can pass a resume along if you're interested. Our IT/Systems guy is a buddy of mine. I'll put in a good word.
Possibly. What kind of position is it? I don't have any coding experience and I'm pretty sure that's what you do.
I'm weighing my options at the current time; thinking about getting into teaching.
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by nyk4ever:
You guys should be happy you have jobs. I got laid off for the second time in 8 months last Wednesday (both IT jobs.)
Nyk, we may have an open position at my company. It's a gaming company. Are you open to working in Manhattan? If so, I can pass a resume along if you're interested. Our IT/Systems guy is a buddy of mine. I'll put in a good word.
Possibly. What kind of position is it? I don't have any coding experience and I'm pretty sure that's what you do.
I'm weighing my options at the current time; thinking about getting into teaching.
I think we're looking for someone to be an assistant to the system admin and do help desk sorts of tasks for clients. No programming required. A job description was sent out to the company a while ago. I'll see if I can dig it out.
I work with some guys over in India and have had a totally different experience. They are hardworking and intelligent. They also give the shine to me and the guys here in the states. They don't mind staying in the backgrodund in conf calls and on matters of seniority. Honestly, I'm closer to them than I am to some of they guys here in my dept.
I don't work in IT/programming, but we sometimes send out some graphic design/publishing stuff to the Phillipines. They aren't arrogant or mean, they just aren't very good....
I did a product photography job recently where the product needed to be cut out from the background. (You see this all the time in catalogs, where the product is silhouetted against white.) I found a service in India willing to do them for less than $2 a pop, which is at least a 10th of what I'd pay domestically.
It was the perfect scenario for outsourcing. With the time-zone difference, I could transmit the files in the evening and often have them finished and returned by morning. The quality was very good, and the service was polite and downright humble.
I've always feel treated better than I deserve by Indians. Ever get Indian food on 6th street in Manhattan? For the price of generic diner food you get candle light, live music, BYO wine and beer, and they'll treat you like a CEO.
For the same price I can go around the corner to a Ukrainian joint, like Vaselka or The Kiev, and be treated like dirty bum that I am.
I'm sure I'm guilty of some cultural stereotyping here, but I'd say if you need someone to break some kneecaps for you, call a Ukranian. If you need a happy ending, call an Asian.
Where do you go on 6th. I really like Banjara.....
Posted by BlueSeats:
I'm sure I'm guilty of some cultural stereotyping here, but I'd say if you need someone to break some kneecaps for you, call a Ukranian. If you need a happy ending, call an Asian.
HAHAHAHAHAAHHAA!! That is fucking hilarious!
My apologies, nyk, I found out today that the position was just filled.
If another one comes along that's in your area or the new guy doesn't work out for some reason, I'll let you know.
Posted by Solace:
My apologies, nyk, I found out today that the position was just filled.
If another one comes along that's in your area or the new guy doesn't work out for some reason, I'll let you know.
Thanks Solace.
