NBA · Brook Lopez (page 2)

Cosmic @ 1/13/2009 11:39 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by sebstar:

I'm not going to lie, I didnt see this coming.

Nobody cares if you didn't but it's a damn shame that our GM didn't.

Too bad he's not a perfect fit for "The System" and couldn't be taken.

What is your problem with a coach installing a system and wanting players who fit it? For all the shit you gave the Isiah era I'd think you'd learn something. Apparently you haven't and you're in that Isiah boat of just pick the best player and cram them together. What gives with this negativity? Do you _ALWAYS_ need something to crap on no matter what it is? Sure seems like it. Kind of a miserable way to spend your time on a Knicks board isn't it? Unless this is where you come to dump your life's frustrations channeled through blasting anything and everything the Knicks do.

Seriously calm down or something it's not good for your health.
Cosmic @ 1/13/2009 11:40 AM
As to Brook Lopez:

He's looking good but he's also kind of slow out there and as he ages he'll get even slower and you have to wonder does that fit Mike D's style of play? It probably does not. So I don't know how much you want to say we blew it not picking Lopez.

If we blew it we blew it by not picking up one of the guards who are lighting it up who could have fit in just perfectly in Mike's system.

Besides we still have yet to see Gallo play ball. I liked what I saw in that lone SL quarter. So let's just wait and see what we've got with him. Probably won't look good at all until next season though given how long he's been out so nobody should be evaluating him based on the upcoming few weeks of play we might see from him - it's not going to be pretty after sitting all that time.
SupremeCommander @ 1/13/2009 11:50 AM
I didn't see this coming either... but I'm going to echo isles here... why or how Walsh didn't see it is beyond me. HE should have been on the Knicks radar as the team needed a big (because all our bigs were flawed/worthless) and because he was consistently mentioned as a top-3 lotto pick. Obviously, he fell, but good players fall all the time in the NBA. I want to give Gallo a fair shake but good God man
islesfan @ 1/13/2009 11:54 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by sebstar:

I'm not going to lie, I didnt see this coming.

Nobody cares if you didn't but it's a damn shame that our GM didn't.

Too bad he's not a perfect fit for "The System" and couldn't be taken.

What is your problem with a coach installing a system and wanting players who fit it? For all the shit you gave the Isiah era I'd think you'd learn something. Apparently you haven't and you're in that Isiah boat of just pick the best player and cram them together. What gives with this negativity? Do you _ALWAYS_ need something to crap on no matter what it is? Sure seems like it. Kind of a miserable way to spend your time on a Knicks board isn't it? Unless this is where you come to dump your life's frustrations channeled through blasting anything and everything the Knicks do.

Seriously calm down or something it's not good for your health.

I have a huge problem with building a roster with such a myopic viewpoint. First, you put yourself in a position where you miss out on very good basketball players because you're so focused on a specific type. Secondly, what if it doesn't work out with that coach? You're left with a team filled with players better suited for their system and you likely need a roster overhaul for the next coach.

Please, Isiah's BS method for building a loser has nothing to do with this. He grabbed any player available, at any cost, as long as they had some talent and regardless of their questionable histories. That's hardly what I, nor any other sensible person, would advocate a rebuilding team to do.

It's funny, I'm getting killed on last night's game thread for being too positive about what I saw last night and you're killing me here for not being too negative. It's a good thing for me that I don't give a shit what you people think. I just call em as I see em.
DarkKnicks @ 1/13/2009 11:59 AM
I was one of the few who wanted Lopez. And believe me, I DO LIKE the fact that he is not very athletic. As BRIGGS once said, he reminds me a little bit of Tim Duncan too. He is not that soft as many people said.

Anyway, 8 rebounds and 2 blocks per game in 28 minutes is just very good, no matter who he plays with.
Cosmic @ 1/13/2009 12:03 PM
Posted by islesfan:


I have a huge problem with building a roster with such a myopic viewpoint. First, you put yourself in a position where you miss out on very good basketball players because you're so focused on a specific type. Secondly, what if it doesn't work out with that coach? You're left with a team filled with players better suited for their system and you likely need a roster overhaul for the next coach.

Please, Isiah's BS method for building a loser has nothing to do with this. He grabbed any player available, at any cost, as long as they had some talent and regardless of their questionable histories. That's hardly what I, nor any other sensible person, would advocate a rebuilding team to do.

It's funny, I'm getting killed on last night's game thread for being too positive about what I saw last night and you're killing me here for not being too negative. It's a good thing for me that I don't give a shit what you people think. I just call em as I see em.

If it's possible, and somehow I think you've found a way, you were being positive in a negative way, in that you were enjoying the win to try to prove a point you made earlier in the day, a point I feel did not have merit based on the timeline you applied it to, I think what you were calling for had been going on for quite some time. It just looked real good last night.

As to the building of this team I think it's imperative for the GM to work with the Coach. I brought up Isiah because he never did. Many lauded the hiring of Larry and then were upset when Isiah wouldn't give him the players that worked in his system (hard nosed defense, half court offense). For a change we have a GM that is willing to give the coach what he needs for that coach's system to succeed.

Now if you don't like the coach's philosophy I can understand that I am wary about how far it can take you. Yet it was successful. We can harp on the Suns' playoff oustings all we want but they were in it every year and a couple of bounces one way and they were probably reaching the Finals at least once. So you can't call it a complete failure.

Besides all that, whether anyone likes it or not, he is our coach and will be for years. So now it's time to give him "his" players and let him work his magic with them. There's a better chance than not we might be witnessing a 50 win season come 2011-2012 with several to follow that one. Is this a bad thing? No way...

In the meantime, it will still take 18 months to finish removing Isiah's crap, and another year or two to rebuild the team from those ashes. It sucks, but, it's not worth hammering them over.

Walsh is going to do whatever he can to give Mike what he needs to succeed. If Walsh can pull it off we WILL BE a VERY GOOD team for a good 4-5 years in the 2010s. I just don't have a problem with that.

If and when this occurs, and we're losing in the 2nd round or ECF playoffs? Then THAT is the time to question Mike's system, etc. Not today, not years before it's even instituted.

And, as to the system, I think my post in Bip's thread sums up what has transpired during the season very well. His system isn't completely set in stone and it has evolved over the course of the year - something you've been clamoring for - but again I feel your applied timeline (It just started last night!) is misguided. It's been unfolding for quite some time.

And, again, we know these players are very inconsistent. We could very well get blown out back to back to the Wizards and nobody would be surprised. So maybe we should shelve the optimism that comes out of last night's game until it's proven to be a trend and not just a fleeting moment - to go with the other fleeting moments so far this year (beating Boston, playing LA, PHO, DAL tough, etc...)

franco12 @ 1/13/2009 12:12 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by franco12:

he would probably be putting up 15 & 10 in our system with our lack of depth, and would be looking like a ROY candidate.

Good read by Walsh.

And did he say they couldn't get the draft pick wrong, or did he say they were going to fuck it up anyway, because nothing matters but 2010?

I think this is a tough call. While on hindsight I think it's a no-brainer pick--you have to adjust your believe in terms of who was coaching the team. This guy DOES NONT want a C--he doesn't. On top of it Gallinari was a lock--they obviously promised him the pick--which I hate in most cases. I can see why the two teams below us didnt take him and you might have cases of what teams thought were BPA above us--but you have a hard time as a Knick fan believing that he wasnt BPA in a need position at 6. I still believe that even if we traded down and picking 16th and Brook Lopez was still on the board we would not take him. Mike Dantoni does not want a C--he wants an athletic 4 playing the C spot and a mobile 3-4 playing PF. So don't second guess it--it was never going to happen even thought there is a lot of reasons we should have the player.

I'm not sure that D'Antoni doesn't want a C- I think what he wants is a C that can play in a wide open system. Seems Lopez is exactly this kind of player.

I do think D'Antoni sold Walsh on the notion that our Lame-o pick 'knows how to play the right way' since he was over in Europe, and Americans really didn't get as much of a consideration. And I suspect they felt Gallo had the most upside at the 6 spot to what was left.
franco12 @ 1/13/2009 12:14 PM
Yea- hind site is easy, but don't the pros get paid to see things in players, and evaluate how things might develop with players?


Or are most pro scouts/GMs about as informed and smart as some of the guys here on UK?
sebstar @ 1/13/2009 1:39 PM
Posted by tkf:

Brook had a good game, vs a bad front line.. I am suprised as I really don't like the guy, but for kicks, here are his past few game stats..

8/8
17/8
3/8
12/8
7/11
23/12
9/8
6/13
14/7
2/8

Again some good games, and some duds... So no need to get overly excited and annoint rod thorn god...

I will say this, I am more impressed with Herman Munster's play with the nets, than I am with Greg oden... So far I have heard every excuse for oden, the guy who was supposed to be the Lebron of big men. At this point, Lopez just looks better, and that is not saying a whole heck of a lot...

Good post, TKF. Bringing those pesky facts to the fore. Seems like he is not as consistent as one might have thought.

Lopez = Next Channing Frye?
Knicksfansince94 @ 1/13/2009 1:41 PM
Is anyone else troubled by the fact that Mr. Brook Lopez looks like he is mentally retarded?

He is a retard. I'd rather have Kelly Tripucka on our team, at this age, than a full-blown retard.
K22 @ 1/13/2009 1:46 PM
Posted by Knicksfansince94:

Is anyone else troubled by the fact that Mr. Brook Lopez looks like he is mentally retarded?

You obviously haven't seen his brother, Robin.

BRIGGS @ 1/13/2009 3:02 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by tkf:

Brook had a good game, vs a bad front line.. I am suprised as I really don't like the guy, but for kicks, here are his past few game stats..

8/8
17/8
3/8
12/8
7/11
23/12
9/8
6/13
14/7
2/8

Again some good games, and some duds... So no need to get overly excited and annoint rod thorn god...

I will say this, I am more impressed with Herman Munster's play with the nets, than I am with Greg oden... So far I have heard every excuse for oden, the guy who was supposed to be the Lebron of big men. At this point, Lopez just looks better, and that is not saying a whole heck of a lot...

Good post, TKF. Bringing those pesky facts to the fore. Seems like he is not as consistent as one might have thought.

Lopez = Next Channing Frye?

If someone who has actually been watching Brook Lopez and thinks he is the next Channing Frye etc.. needs to adjust their glasses. Brook Lopez is huge skilled mentally tough and will get much better. You are seeing glimpses of what he can do. The guy is a version of Tim Duncan and that will play out over time.
TMS @ 1/13/2009 3:03 PM
i think Brooke Lopez is a lot closer to Andrew Bogut than he is Tim Duncan personally... but he's a good young player & right now i would definitely rather have him than Gallo... but again, hindsight & i still haven't seen what Gallo can do.
sebstar @ 1/13/2009 3:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by tkf:

Brook had a good game, vs a bad front line.. I am suprised as I really don't like the guy, but for kicks, here are his past few game stats..

8/8
17/8
3/8
12/8
7/11
23/12
9/8
6/13
14/7
2/8

Again some good games, and some duds... So no need to get overly excited and annoint rod thorn god...

I will say this, I am more impressed with Herman Munster's play with the nets, than I am with Greg oden... So far I have heard every excuse for oden, the guy who was supposed to be the Lebron of big men. At this point, Lopez just looks better, and that is not saying a whole heck of a lot...

Good post, TKF. Bringing those pesky facts to the fore. Seems like he is not as consistent as one might have thought.

Lopez = Next Channing Frye?

If someone who has actually been watching Brook Lopez and thinks he is the next Channing Frye etc.. needs to adjust their glasses. Brook Lopez is huge skilled mentally tough and will get much better. You are seeing glimpses of what he can do. The guy is a version of Tim Duncan and that will play out over time.

...We'll see. There are flaws in Lopez's game and it will be interesting to see if he can adjust. I'm not saying he has the same game as Frye, Its just that Frye started off as a player who looked like he would be an All-Star for years before he came crashing down. It easy to get geeked over a few good games out the shoot.

Lopez is unathletic, and has consistently shot at a low percentage. Will he emerge as a low-post, go-to stud? Or Joel Prysbilla?
MS @ 1/13/2009 3:30 PM
Dude anyone that is watching this kid and making comparisons to channing frye are wrong, he does a lot more well. Frye rarely ever grabbed double figure rebounds and was a terrible defender. This kid has balls, rebounds, can pass and is one of the best shot blockers in the entire league already.

He is playing as good as any young center in the NBA right now

Brook Lopez
10.7pts 8.0rbs 2.0blks

Greg Oden
8.3pts 7.2rbs 1.1blks

Andrew Bynum
12.5pts 8.2pts 1.8blks

It's hard to take because if you put him next to chandler for the next five years it's the making of a championship defense.
TMS @ 1/13/2009 3:37 PM
comparing Lopez to Tim Duncan is pretty farfetched too

Brook Lopez
10.7pts 8.0rbs 2.0blks

Tim Duncan
20.4pts 10.1rbs 1.8blks

Andrew Bogut
11.8pts 10.5rbs 1.0blks
sebstar @ 1/13/2009 3:38 PM
Dude, read. I'm not comparing his game to Channing Frye's. I guess Frye is too much of a sore spot around here and its just serving to dangle red meat to you guys -- Fine, will Lopez be the next Duncan or Diop? I'm Just saying that the jury is still out on whether he will truly emerge as an All-Star or role player.

And those numbers aren't blow away impressive. If anything they highlight just how bad Oden has been, and how overrated Bynum is.
sebstar @ 1/13/2009 3:41 PM
Besides blocks, Lee puts up better numbers in his sleep.
MS @ 1/13/2009 3:56 PM
He is a 20 year old center. Tim Duncan spent four years in school you.

Year One

Yao Ming
13.5pts 8.2rbs 1.8blks

Andrew Bogut
9.4pts 7.0rbs 0.8blks

Biedrins (year 3)
9.6pt 9.7rbs 1.7rbs
sebstar @ 1/13/2009 4:01 PM
Why the comparisons to Bogut? Is Bogut in some rarified All-Star air or something? I thought the consensus was that he was a borderline bust? Yao had a huge adjustment to make, going from China to the league, and besides everybody knows he has a marshmellow game anyway.

Right now, Lopez is putting up serviceable big man numbers. He could go either way.
Allanfan20 @ 1/13/2009 4:08 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Why the comparisons to Bogut? Is Bogut in some rarified All-Star air or something? I thought the consensus was that he was a borderline bust? Yao had a huge adjustment to make, going from China to the league, and besides everybody knows he has a marshmellow game anyway.

Right now, Lopez is putting up serviceable big man numbers. He could go either way.

I wouldn't say that. You have to remember that though he's enormous, it's not natural for such a tall person to be an athlete of any sort. Maybe his offense isn't tough as nails, but he's made the absolute most of what he's got and he's known as maybe one of THE hardest workers in the entire league. In my book, he's tough.
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