Off Topic · OT: Good NYT Article on NCAA's Profiting off Student Athletes (page 2)

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by PresIke:

haha...25-40k?

compare that to what jennings made last year.

sorry, not even close.

and how much are the schools making?

and what about the negative effects of things like what happened with rose and mayo?

the money is out there, but the players aren't getting it. and even if lower pro-players don't get as much, at least give them the option like the rest of the working world, to get paid for their work in real money.

why do baseball players not have to go to college? what about pro-soccer players around the world?

the window for an athlete to earn money from their ability is short, so why play for free? most don't even finish their education now-a-days, making the scholarships even less valuable.

but if you want to play that way, then why not just pay the players money?

why do you have to be a full-time post-secondary level student to become a pro-basketball player (or perhaps even worse, a pro-football player, since their careers are even shorter)?

also, regular students are there to get their degree for whatever it is they want to do (supposedly, although we know this doesn't happen as most people are conditioned to think they have to go to college immediately after high school) but basketball players not only have to do all of the school work other students do -- meaning they are supposed to be held to the same standards -- but also spend a huge amount of their time focused on playing the sport, which is what most are focused on to be there real profession.

it really makes no sense for pro-sports players to go to college.

if i told you that if you wanted to enter any other profession and told you your only option would be to go to school for free for a degree that isn't even going to directly help you in your professional interests immediately following school, and earn zero money, what would you think of that?

sound fair?

only if you aren't seeing it from the prospective of a person who is a viable pro-athlete.

also, if we got rid of silly high level college athletics, young players could earn more money, nba teams could have a real development system that could be specifically catered to their own organizational interests, allowing for years of development under their wing, rather than a college who only seeks to keep their own fan base happy and ensure that they are constantly hyped as a top school for athletes, which may not fit the needs of pro-teams.

we can see that clearly happening already.

briggs, sorry, you are WAAAAAAYY off-base here.





[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 1:54 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 1:55 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 1:55 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 2:06 PM]

I don't think you get it. What does a solider get for serving his country and risking his life? He doesnt even get what an athlete does for playing a sport in college. The upper echelon stars of amateur sports pave the way for everyone to get scholarships. And remember we are talking amateur--if you want to be a pro go do what Jennings did--you have that right. For an amateur to get a free ride to college is an absolute privilege and great compensation. Everything in life cannot be quantified in fiscal benefit. There are certain intangibles of college that have a huge intrinsic value that cannot be measured in dollars. People whop bring up the issue of whether some amateur players should be paid truly are naive.

using the soldier/military comparison -- which also tends to exploit the least well off and educated (look at what the makeup is of who joins the military...it's mostlty the poorest and least educated) -- does not justify the system at all. if i said, well, slavery is legal somewhere else then therefore it must be okay would that be an acceptable way to justify it? i'm not saying this is slavery per say, but it sure is not the same as other work. again, what other legit examples are there of this? none. no other job asks this of its future workers.

not everyone who works in the military is not getting paid. actually, i believe they all get paid. some do get money for a degree but most are just using the military as a way to get a degree for some other future interest, not a lifelong military career.

some remain lifers, but not all.

again, most pro-caliber basketball players don't go to college, as their primary reason, for a college degree to work in another profession.

i challenge you to actually think like one of these people, because clearly you aren't.

how come universities around the world, widely reputed like oxford, cambridge, etc do not rely on college athletics to function and help others? why is it the responsiblity of potential pro athletes to carry the economic weight for other students?

actually, the problem is also that we put too many people in college who don't really want to be there or are not ready for it.

sorry bro, with all due respect, it is you who still don't get it.



[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 3:31 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 3:42 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 3:46 PM]

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by PresIke:

possibly, but that speaks to the problem as well.

you are using the language or reality that is still in existence.

why do we need a major d1 program to teach him, when he could have played for a minor league type of team for the bulls, if it existed, to develop his game. the nba is THE highest level of play for b-ball, so eddy had to go from the high school level straight to the nba.

that's a HUGE leap that pro-sports like mlb and pro-soccer/football around the world NEVER ask their low level athletes to do.

i remember when manny ramirez came out of george washington high school to AA, and ripped it there quickly, then to AAA and then to the pro-level in a year or so.

but some players take years in A-AAA levels to reach the MLB level. at least they get paid for their work, and if they are believed to be a top prospect they get paid. there was that pitcher the yankees drafted years ago with the last name, taylor, who got (i believe) a $1 million dollar deal straight out of high school, but NEVER panned out, barely entering MLB if i recall correctly. at least he got paid for the potential.

no basketball player gets paid that kind of $ to play in the NBADL, or earns that much in college even with a scholarship.

maybe some who we think will be good don't pan out, so eddy could be someone like that, although he has shown the ability to do well at times on the highest level.

but imagine if the bulls had their own minor league team to develop curry.

D1 college programs may have some good coaches, but players at the highest level are usually only there for a year or 2, and the interests of a coach for a college is independent and different than that of a coach that works for a hypothetical minor league team under a bigger pro team.

imo I always found the baseball comparison faulty because baseball' system has been in place for nearly a century. You are talking about a complete revamping of the entire pro basketball infrastructure. I think you underestimate the value of a young person (anyone for that matter) would gain from college. Whether your a struggling C student or a potential summa cum laude there is still much to be learned from the college environment and I'm not talking just about the classroom.

If your talking about the minor league then you must mean everyone coming out of high school as to play for the minor league team. So someone like LBJ you send him to play on Idaho for the Cavs development team? Is that really a better alternative.
Also why must we continue to perpetuate the belief that athletes are only good at one thing. If a guy goes to a development league and blows his knee out what's left for him because he can't go back to college on a scholarship and what kind of great employment opportunities are out there for a high school graduate whose never taken one single college course? Even a player that has success what's after basketball....if that's all you've known since you were a kid. No one has taught you how to manage a check point, let alone make investments, and you'll have almost no opportunity to possibly move into another field because of your lack of education. So really the best he can hope for is saving his money that he made while a pro and using that to live off of for the rest of him and his family's life.
Now there's always exception to the rules but how many regular people walking around can find work with no college degree? I don't know about you but how many 18 year olds do you know of that are financially astute.

In terms of players leaving early I think there's a pressure to leave early. Because if you stay too long in college then draft scouts now perceive as though something is wrong with your game. That's how messed up the process has become it's detriment if a player has a college degree when entering the draft.

why does the fact that baseball's system existed for longer make it a faulty comparison? if a system is wrong we should not change it and leave it in place? if we compared one workplace that treats workers fairly versus one that doesn't, should we then say, "Well, the other one has been in place longer so that makes it okay."



that's the same terrible argument that keeps our heathcare system from doing what is RIGHT and shown to actually work. instead Obama and others say, "Well, the other system (which is terrible and costs more) has been there so we just can't change it."

this is an awful way to approach doing what is right, because then we end up doing the WRONG things over and over again, and true justice is not allowed to come into existence.


we should always be looking to make changes to systems and laws and institutions that are not just or equal.

bitty, did you read what i wrote about lebron?

also i used manny ramirez as a perfect example of a player straight out of hs who went to the pros within the same year he was drafted.

if someone like lebron is ready to play, then the team can decide if they want to put him on the real roster or not.

in the nba, you are drafted and if signed, automatically on the pro roster which is limited to 15 players. in baseball there is no such limitation.

it baffles my mind that so many want to keep this system in place or try to argue it's fair at all.

it is only "fair" if you are a fan of college hoops. but from the workers perspective, the players, it is not fair, and for someone like me who wants to see the most fair and just systems in every institution then i also think it should be changed.


[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 3:39 PM]

One thing I hope Martin fixes is the multiple quotes thingy.

why does the fact that baseball's system existed for longer make it a faulty comparison? if a system is wrong we should not change it and leave it in place? if we compared one workplace that treats workers fairly versus one that doesn't, should we then say, "Well, the other one has been in place longer so that makes it okay."

You are the one that believes the system is wrong it's not my job to prove your point. Comparing baseball to basketball is wrong on many levels these are two entirely different sports with different ways of developing. Not to mention baseball have a much larger draft then basketball meaning a better chance of being drafted. Again you failed to address the question of what happens if a player goes into minor league blows his knee and can't return to college (due to financial reasons)? Or what happens after they finish playing someone like Eddy Curry if he doesn't have a major turnaround he's pretty much f*cked because he's already in financial trouble imagine what it will be like for him after he retires?

You say the system is broken but why is that when players we're going to college the game was at it's peak and look at the post-career success Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson have had. Whereas guys like Darius Miles where is he going to be 5 years after he officially hangs it up? Because for every Kobe Bryant there is ten Sebastian Telfairs.

that's the same terrible argument that keeps our heathcare system from doing what is RIGHT and shown to actually work. instead Obama and others say, "Well, the other system (which is terrible and costs more) has been there so we just can't change it."

this is an awful way to approach doing what is right, because then we end up doing the WRONG things over and over again, and true justice is not allowed to come into existence.

We went from a somewhat bad comparison to an absolutely dumbass comparison. Again know the difference when guys were attending college NBA was at it's peak, the performance was better, more fan interest, etc so somewhere in your faulty logic that's a broken system then I think I'll take that broken system any day over what the NBA is now passing off as basketball.

we should always be looking to make changes to systems and laws and institutions that are not just or equal.

You want to make changes just for the sake of making changes not because it based in any real deficiencies. I am arguing that the system became broken because of too many unprepared players entering the draft straight from high school. And also because staying in college is considered a negative for a draft prospect not a positive.

bitty, did you read what i wrote about lebron?

also i used manny ramirez as a perfect example of a player straight out of hs who went to the pros within the same year he was drafted.

if someone like lebron is ready to play, then the team can decide if they want to put him on the real roster or not.

Again who wants to spend even 6 months living and playing in some place like Idaho? If it's like that they are better off playing overseas.

in the nba, you are drafted and if signed, automatically on the pro roster which is limited to 15 players. in baseball there is no such limitation.

it baffles my mind that so many want to keep this system in place or try to argue it's fair at all.

it is only "fair" if you are a fan of college hoops. but from the workers perspective, the players, it is not fair, and for someone like me who wants to see the most fair and just systems in every institution then i also think it should be changed.

Only in your mind it's not fair. No one these guys aren't missing out on money if Lebron James went to college and dominated would he be making any less money then he is now? Furthermore, the powers that be (NBA management, agents, business managers, friends/family) benefit if these guys remain ignorant and uneducated. It's much easier to steal from a barely legal adult who knows very little of the business world versus a guy whose gone through the transition of college. One of my friends played overseas in Spain for 3 years and now we're working together. But you know what should would have never gotten this job without her degree. Another guy at my job played overseas making 10 grand a month with all his living expenses being paid but guess what he had a family busted his knee up and had to return to the working world. He tells me all the time about the guys he played with who are now out of basketball totally broke with almost no job prospects. The problem is that you only see this issue from the perspective of a LBJ whose going to end up with a 100 million dollar contract but you don't address the kid who gets drafted but doesn't make it in the NBA and is left with nothing to fall back on.

Also is fair that job that requires a Bachelor's degree even though it's on-the-job training?

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]Posted by PresIke:

haha...25-40k?

compare that to what jennings made last year.

sorry, not even close.

and how much are the schools making?

and what about the negative effects of things like what happened with rose and mayo?

the money is out there, but the players aren't getting it. and even if lower pro-players don't get as much, at least give them the option like the rest of the working world, to get paid for their work in real money.

why do baseball players not have to go to college? what about pro-soccer players around the world?

the window for an athlete to earn money from their ability is short, so why play for free? most don't even finish their education now-a-days, making the scholarships even less valuable.

but if you want to play that way, then why not just pay the players money?

why do you have to be a full-time post-secondary level student to become a pro-basketball player (or perhaps even worse, a pro-football player, since their careers are even shorter)?

also, regular students are there to get their degree for whatever it is they want to do (supposedly, although we know this doesn't happen as most people are conditioned to think they have to go to college immediately after high school) but basketball players not only have to do all of the school work other students do -- meaning they are supposed to be held to the same standards -- but also spend a huge amount of their time focused on playing the sport, which is what most are focused on to be there real profession.

it really makes no sense for pro-sports players to go to college.

if i told you that if you wanted to enter any other profession and told you your only option would be to go to school for free for a degree that isn't even going to directly help you in your professional interests immediately following school, and earn zero money, what would you think of that?

sound fair?

only if you aren't seeing it from the prospective of a person who is a viable pro-athlete.

also, if we got rid of silly high level college athletics, young players could earn more money, nba teams could have a real development system that could be specifically catered to their own organizational interests, allowing for years of development under their wing, rather than a college who only seeks to keep their own fan base happy and ensure that they are constantly hyped as a top school for athletes, which may not fit the needs of pro-teams.

we can see that clearly happening already.

briggs, sorry, you are WAAAAAAYY off-base here.





[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 1:54 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 1:55 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 1:55 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-04-2009 2:06 PM]

I don't think you get it. What does a solider get for serving his country and risking his life? He doesnt even get what an athlete does for playing a sport in college. The upper echelon stars of amateur sports pave the way for everyone to get scholarships. And remember we are talking amateur--if you want to be a pro go do what Jennings did--you have that right. For an amateur to get a free ride to college is an absolute privilege and great compensation. Everything in life cannot be quantified in fiscal benefit. There are certain intangibles of college that have a huge intrinsic value that cannot be measured in dollars. People whop bring up the issue of whether some amateur players should be paid truly are naive.

using the soldier/military comparison -- which also tends to exploit the least well off and educated (look at what the makeup is of who joins the military...it's mostlty the poorest and least educated) -- does not justify the system at all. if i said, well, slavery is legal somewhere else then therefore it must be okay would that be an acceptable way to justify it? i'm not saying this is slavery per say, but it sure is not the same as other work. again, what other legit examples are there of this? none. no other job asks this of its future workers.

not everyone who works in the military is not getting paid. actually, i believe they all get paid. some do get money for a degree but most are just using the military as a way to get a degree for some other future interest, not a lifelong military career.

some remain lifers, but not all.


how come universities around the world, widely reputed like oxford, cambridge, etc do not rely on college athletics to function and help others? why is it the responsiblity of potential pro athletes to carry the economic weight for other students?



sorry bro, with all due respect, it is you who still don't get it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you bring up slavery every time you get criticized--it's like your fall back argument when you don't have a cogent retort.


-->again, most pro-caliber basketball players don't go to college, as their primary reason, for a college degree to work in another profession.

i challenge you to actually think like one of these people, because clearly you aren't.


Sorry you are talking about a one in a million person--I don't get that deep about such a small % of the population. Most people couldnt even conceive of playing a pro sport in reality.


-->actually, the problem is also that we put too many people in college who don't really want to be there or are not ready for it.

The last time I checked it's a free country. If you don't want to go to college--you don't have.
to.


By the way I brought up the military comparison for a good reason. The few athletes who do generate the income to make scholarships new campus facilities etc... available for the tens of thousands who can't make a very small sacrifice. They certainly don't put their lives at risk--but they do benefit from a free education and college experience if they wish to. The few athletes who make the sport work have God-given abilities are giving back to the whole is a just and needed cause. Your argument is based on elite individuals who honestly don't need you on their side.

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by orangeblobman:

What about the REAL students that go to college to...::gasp:: STUDY?? What of their intangible losses because colleges throw money and scholarships at sports, on kids that have no interest in learning anything at all.

The NCAA sports system has to go, but it's not because they 'profit' off 'student' athletes.

I was a full scholarship athlete and graduated with a pretty high GPA so what's your point? Matter of fact the average GPA of our entire team was like a 3.2 using a few bad apples to paint all collegiate athletes is pretty idiotic. Did we have jocks that didn't goto class yes but there was also plenty of non-athletes who weren't going to class.

Besides you are the last person on this board to be talking about someone else not studying judging by some of your comments.

Good point Bitty. I always hated the label of dumb jock. The average GPA of student athletes is typically higher than the rest of the student body(especially with the women athletes).

there should be no difference to paying a student to play football vs. work on campus at some other job beyond the pay rate.

Athletes work to put themselves through college- but they should be paid commensurate with what their activity brings in to the school.

Personally I think players are getting paid. They get paid thousands of dollars by the school in the form of a scholarship. If players don't like the going rate then they have the option of doing what Jennings did and play in Europe. No one is holding them hostage. But they should not get paid by the University just for playing. They are amateur athletes just like those that play on the Volleyball team, soccer team and lacrosse team. The going rate for those players is $0

I do however feel that players should get paid when schools make money off of merchandise etc that have their names and numbers on them. Clearly Uconn made tons of money off the sales of Jersey's from Ray Allen, Caron Butler, Donyell Marshall and the Bip. It's ridiculous that the player does not get a cut of that.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by orangeblobman:

What about the REAL students that go to college to...::gasp:: STUDY?? What of their intangible losses because colleges throw money and scholarships at sports, on kids that have no interest in learning anything at all.

The NCAA sports system has to go, but it's not because they 'profit' off 'student' athletes.

I was a full scholarship athlete and graduated with a pretty high GPA so what's your point? Matter of fact the average GPA of our entire team was like a 3.2 using a few bad apples to paint all collegiate athletes is pretty idiotic. Did we have jocks that didn't goto class yes but there was also plenty of non-athletes who weren't going to class.

Besides you are the last person on this board to be talking about someone else not studying judging by some of your comments.

Good point Bitty. I always hated the label of dumb jock. The average GPA of student athletes is typically higher than the rest of the student body(especially with the women athletes).

Well you know it's scientifically proven that women are smarter then men

Its a moral issue now and it has been one for quite some time.

A free education was equitable when the money generated from collegiate athletics helped pay for equipment, travel expenses, books, ext...But that all changed once the NCAA became a conglomerate, with figures like six BILLION dollar tv packages and the like being handed out and thrown around.

To generate that kind of money off he backs of these kids and for them to not see a dime is un-American and immoral. Its hilarious to hear people try to justify otherwise.

Posted by sebstar:

Its a moral issue now and it has been one for quite some time.

A free education was equitable when the money generated from collegiate athletics helped pay for equipment, travel expenses, books, ext...But that all changed once the NCAA became a conglomerate, with figures like six BILLION dollar tv packages and the like being handed out and thrown around.

To generate that kind of money off he backs of these kids and for them to not see a dime is un-American and immoral. Its hilarious to hear people try to justify otherwise.

my sentiments exactly.

Posted by sebstar:

Its a moral issue now and it has been one for quite some time.

A free education was equitable when the money generated from collegiate athletics helped pay for equipment, travel expenses, books, ext...But that all changed once the NCAA became a conglomerate, with figures like six BILLION dollar tv packages and the like being handed out and thrown around.

To generate that kind of money off he backs of these kids and for them to not see a dime is un-American and immoral. Its hilarious to hear people try to justify otherwise.

McDonalds has been making money hand over fist from generations of teenagers, where is the outrage?

Posted by martin:

Posted by sebstar:

Its a moral issue now and it has been one for quite some time.

A free education was equitable when the money generated from collegiate athletics helped pay for equipment, travel expenses, books, ext...But that all changed once the NCAA became a conglomerate, with figures like six BILLION dollar tv packages and the like being handed out and thrown around.

To generate that kind of money off he backs of these kids and for them to not see a dime is un-American and immoral. Its hilarious to hear people try to justify otherwise.

McDonalds has been making money hand over fist from generations of teenagers, where is the outrage?

C'mon now. That's an Orangeblob post right there --- completely thought-free.

Posted by sebstar:

Its a moral issue now and it has been one for quite some time.

A free education was equitable when the money generated from collegiate athletics helped pay for equipment, travel expenses, books, ext...But that all changed once the NCAA became a conglomerate, with figures like six BILLION dollar tv packages and the like being handed out and thrown around.

To generate that kind of money off he backs of these kids and for them to not see a dime is un-American and immoral. Its hilarious to hear people try to justify otherwise.

When it comes to gate receipts and tv packages I think schools put this money to good use. Uconn was a no name school until Calhoun got there. The money made off the basketball team has gone to better facilities for the basketball team. Better practice facilities for all other sports. Improvements to the campus etc. The school has gone from a no name school to one of the most prestigious state universities in the country. The money was put to good use. Could some of the money have gone to the athletes? Yes. But what do you do? come up with a salary scale? have contract negotiations with the best players? Pay hundreds of thousands to star athletes? $50/wk to scrubs. Does everyone get paid the same amount even though the stars bring in all the money? If a player doesn't like the contract he signed as a freshman can he renegotiate after freshman year? Do we pay walkons that don't play? If a walk on earns his way onto the roster does he now negotatiate a salary? If a kid negotaties a great salary with the AD is he now going to push me to play him? Lot more questions.

I don't think you can or should pay these guys salaries. The value of an education should be enough to cover the game playing portion. Not only do you get 25-100K in tuition paid, but when you graduate and don't make the pros like the large majority of athletes, your college education that you received for free will take care of you for the rest of your life. It is invaluable and should not be taken lightly. So in summary not only do schools pay for your education but they also use all of their resources to make sure you don't go through life broke and dumb. But merchandising is where I have a problem. Players should be paid when you sell something that has their number/name on it. It's criminal to say that if you market your jersey we are going to call you a professional, ban you from the sport but we can market your jersey and make money off of it. The kids should get a cut of all merchandising while they are at the university. And all merchandise that has their name/picture on it for eternity.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 06-07-2009 3:33 PM]

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by martin:

Posted by sebstar:

Its a moral issue now and it has been one for quite some time.

A free education was equitable when the money generated from collegiate athletics helped pay for equipment, travel expenses, books, ext...But that all changed once the NCAA became a conglomerate, with figures like six BILLION dollar tv packages and the like being handed out and thrown around.

To generate that kind of money off he backs of these kids and for them to not see a dime is un-American and immoral. Its hilarious to hear people try to justify otherwise.

McDonalds has been making money hand over fist from generations of teenagers, where is the outrage?

C'mon now. That's an Orangeblob post right there --- completely thought-free.

you post of a university's immoral and un-American description was far worse.

Uh...ok Martin.

Two quick reasons why there are differences between McDonalds employee and College basketball D-1 player

A) Mcdonalds employees are actually paid for their services. Its not an outdated barter system.

B) Mcdonalds employees are paid a lower scale based on supply and demand. This is where the outrage over collegiate sports comes into play. A McDonalds employee cant come in and demand $100 an hour, because he/she is easily replaceable (millions of able bodied teenagers ready to work) and he or she has little job experience. A collegiate athlete is the best of the best when it comes to sports and is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the money generated in TV, Apparel, ticket sales...ext. They are the commodity, if they walked there is no college basketball product. But a collegiate athlete cant complain because his indentured servitude is already hardwired into a corrupt system. He has no voice and if he does complain somehow he is shot down as being "greedy"

Completely immoral. Your services cannot be directly attributable to billions of dollars in revenue, yet you are not allowed to receive compensation and involve oneself in the income generated. Totally illegal and corrupt.

Bippity...cant throw up your hands and say "its too complicated to pay players" ...which in essence means that we are just going to allow a corrupt system to stand.

Somebody is pocketing the obscene revenues that the NCAA generates. And the actual backbone of the corporation (players) receive nary a dime in a billion dollar industry.

An education doesnt cut it anymore. If for no other reason than the fact that many athletes are not students. Just cant profit off of them in such an outlandish way.

Posted by sebstar:

Uh...ok Martin.

Two quick reasons why there are differences between McDonalds employee and College basketball D-1 player

A) Mcdonalds employees are actually paid for their services. Its not an outdated barter system.

B) Mcdonalds employees are paid a lower scale based on supply and demand. This is where the outrage over collegiate sports comes into play. A McDonalds employee cant come in and demand $100 an hour, because he/she is easily replaceable (millions of able bodied teenagers ready to work) and he or she has little job experience. A collegiate athlete is the best of the best when it comes to sports and is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the money generated in TV, Apparel, ticket sales...ext. They are the commodity, if they walked there is no college basketball product. But a collegiate athlete cant complain because his indentured servitude is already hardwired into a corrupt system. He has no voice and if he does complain somehow he is shot down as being "greedy"

Completely immoral. Your services cannot be directly attributable to billions of dollars in revenue, yet you are not allowed to receive compensation and involve oneself in the income generated. Totally illegal and corrupt.

Scholarships, living expenses, quality coaching, access to education. Exposure, exposure, exposure. Althlete students who make money for their uni are also getting paid for their services indirectly.

If athletes don't like it they can go the route of Brandon Jennings and earn top dollar. What's the problem here?

University's are in it for the $ too, there is no doubting that.

Damn Martin, you must be a hustler by trade. I can see you now. Somebody gives you 50 bucks, for a five dollar meal..and you give them two dollars in change. And then you rattle off why that is fair compensation and a fair trade. Totally imbalanced in your favor...Free education went out once the NCAA started signing billion dollar deals.

Sure, kids can go to foreign countries to play, but how reasonable of an alternative is that? As an 18 y/o, just pack up for Europe to play? Sounds a lot easier on paper, and it's probably why Jennings struggled so much. Right now, the NCAA holds all the cards and they know it because the alternative routes are virtually non-existent. Thats why they continue to exploit. Hopefully more athletes will take the Jennings route and continue to publically embarrass the NCAA.

Posted by sebstar:

Damn Martin, you must be a hustler by trade. I can see you now. Somebody gives you 50 bucks, for a five dollar meal..and you give them two dollars in change. And then you rattle off why that is fair compensation and a fair trade. Totally imbalanced in your favor...Free education went out once the NCAA started signing billion dollar deals.

Sure, kids can go to foreign countries to play, but how reasonable of an alternative is that? As an 18 y/o, just pack up for Europe to play? Sounds a lot easier on paper, and it's probably why Jennings struggled so much. Right now, the NCAA holds all the cards and they know it because the alternative routes are virtually non-existent. Thats why they continue to exploit. Hopefully more athletes will take the Jennings route and continue to publically embarrass the NCAA.

mostly all you are doing here is crying wolf to both bippity and me, no offer for a real big picture, an over exaggeration what is going on, what can be done and who is really benefiting.

Now I need to come up with solutions to satisfy you? We cant even agree that that there is a problem to begin with. Thus far I was just trying to establish that there was an issue...ok, then.

A uniform stipend would be a good start.

Posted by sebstar:

Damn Martin, you must be a hustler by trade. I can see you now. Somebody gives you 50 bucks, for a five dollar meal..and you give them two dollars in change. And then you rattle off why that is fair compensation and a fair trade. Totally imbalanced in your favor...Free education went out once the NCAA started signing billion dollar deals.

Sure, kids can go to foreign countries to play, but how reasonable of an alternative is that? As an 18 y/o, just pack up for Europe to play? Sounds a lot easier on paper, and it's probably why Jennings struggled so much. Right now, the NCAA holds all the cards and they know it because the alternative routes are virtually non-existent. Thats why they continue to exploit. Hopefully more athletes will take the Jennings route and continue to publically embarrass the NCAA.

Okay, if this is the case, if I begin to pay you then you must maintain good grades or you owe me my money back. You must stay out of trouble or you owe me my money back. If you leave after one year how do we determine your value to the university? What did you bring in? What do you think is a fair salary?

Lastly, why does an education not cut it anymore? Is there anything more valuable? Athlete A doesn't go to classes and gets paid for playing. When his career is over and he doesn't make it to the NBA what happens to him? Athlete B goes to classes, studies and does well. The school just set him up for life. No? Why diminish the value of an education so much. Some people risk their lives for one. I was a college athlete and earned a scholarship. My college education helped me to develop enough skills to now earn a good living for the remainder of my life. I got that for free. There are people that would literally kill for that opportunity.