Posted by sebstar:
See, thats the thing I keep saying. You're not taking away from smaller schools and giving to the athletes. You're taking away from the executives, administrators, and coaches and giving to the athletes and making things more equitable.
I'm sorry, even though you love him, you cant hand Calhoun, Pitino, Calipari, 5-8 million dollar per and claim poor mouth. Its too one sided.
NCAA needs a revolution.
You are taking away from these smaller programs. They get part of that revenue that you want to take 60% away from.
As for coach's salaries. Players come to Uconn because of Jim Calhoun. Because of these names the schools will make millions, of which they will then turn around and use to better the university. Joe Blow will come to the school for one year and then go to the pros. The best player at that school that leaves after 1 year will have far less of an impact on the money brought into the school than Calhoun has had in the 20 some odd years he has been there. There is no comparison in terms of value. Without Calhoun the Uconn basketball program played on a court that had a leaky ceiling.
Plus, how did Calhoun get that job that now pays him 1.6 million dollars? He went to college, got a scholarship, played a sport and learned how to teach it really well. The value of an education for Calhoun is worth 1.6 million a year.
sebstar you are my new uk hero.
no disrespect to those who disagree, btw.
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by sebstar:
Bitty...I think you are with the spirit of my contention with collegiate sports so there is no need to split hairs.
But yeah, Title 9 isnt reasonable in my book. Call me sexist, but the Duke women's lacrosse team is not on equal footing with the Duke men's basketball program. But I know common sense takes a back seat in these situations, so if you can come up with a better alternative that doesnt find the bulk of the profits landing in the laps of fat cat executives, I'm all ears. Make them put the money back into the communities. I really dont care, but the NCAA system right now is full of shyt and it needs to be altered.
I hope you never have a daughter but you know what's funny if we were talking about race I doubt you would have the same stance. Hypocrites really are unbelievable.
[Edited by - bitty41 on 07-06-2009 6:06 PM]
How am I a hypocrite? Are women worth less than men? Absolutely not. Do women sports bring in even a fraction of the revenue as their male counterparts...
Its just reality. I dont know why you're even going there with me.
Let's reverse the argument if this discussion was about providing academic scholarships to minority students and someone was arguing (well minority student just aren't applying as much so why should they be allocated a percentage of academic scholarships) you would also think that was fair? Seriously don't ever discuss inequality because you clearly think that inequality is wrong only when it involves races. Also if "it's just reality" when it comes to women; why no mention about the men's rugby team or the men's soccer team that doesn't generate anywhere near the revenue of a football team but yet you chose to not mention that, you immediately went to the woman's programs. Also at schools like UNCONN/Tenn/you goto alot of Big Ten Women's game they probably have just as a big audience as the men's teams. No women don't have anything comparable to Football but basketball know what you are talking about because a lot women's programs around the country are a big deal. Just because you change the station when a woman's program comes on to Spike TV doesn't mean they are big revenue generator. While my sister went to Penn State every single home game was sold out. Whereas the men's program could barely get any fans so in that case who should be paid?
What does that say about you; that discrimination is okay when it involves women but not men?
Btw
You should consider looking up the definition of Professional and Amateur. Learn the differences between the to because you apparently haven't figured out that one. On the amateur level athletes are all evaluated the same receive the same treatment (at least in principle) and you are now saying that collegiate athletes should be based on how much money they generate for a school? Do you realize how incredibly biased that is for athletes who happen to compete in sports other then basketball or football? If the Men's Hockey team goes undeafted during the year you are seriously going to say that they are less deserving of financial compensation simply because they aren't televised regularly wow just wow now you are bordering on low level here and total hypocrisy oh my bad it isn't hypocrisy it's just "reality".
Take a breather because your looking real bad on this one. I have a lot female athletes in my family and to hear your disregard for Title 9 is mind-boggling for someone claiming to be enlightened. A lot of women have had the opportunity attend college not only through athletic scholarships but through academic programs as well because of Title 9 so your comments are just really disappointing.
that and your momma wears combat boots...
If we do away with Title IX and decide that amateur athletes should be treated by how much money they bring in, what do we do in the case of a program that loses money at a school. If the football team at Uconn is losing money on ticket sales and using television money to support the program what do they do? By using this money to support their program they are actually taking money away from the men's and women's basketball players, who are making money. Do they owe that money back to the basketball players? In the end what happens to the program?
The NBA 30 teams has about 2 openings a year per team on average. Thats 60 new jobs to be filled by college players and from overseas. Seems to me about 15 are interntional players.
I don't remember how many div. 1 schools there are in basketball, but I assume there are over 3000 players. 45 will move to the NBA. They have been given an arena to prove their worth and move on if the market demands.
People root for the schools, not the individual talent. Duke is Duke and the players go to Duke for its coach, fans, environment, and the league they play in. A good player will get an educaton worth about 250k if he stays 4 years. If he is not drafted he can be an assistant and get his masters degree. NOt a bad deal. If he can make millions he can leave after a year.
Players are going into a situation already an institution, not creating it.
The system benefits the thousands of other programs.
If the players got paid well, would they stay just to get paid in college?
My point, the better players will get jobs and move out. The rest will enjoy the benefits of what a full scholarship offers. If a Jennings and others are marketable outside the NCAA and don't want to take classes, good for them.
Alright, alright, alright. Guess people just feel comfortable comin' at my neck, calling me all kinds of foul. Now, I'm not supposed to have a daughter because I dont agree with some aspects of Title XI and I'm this hypocrite that loves sexism. I don’t even know how sex was so violently shoehorned into this convo. And yes, btw, I am aware of the difference between a pro and an amateur. College athletes are now cogs in billion dollar business --- I’ve already established such.
Your attempt at equivalency --- comparing blatant discrimination to the mechanisms of Title XI is laughable and not even worth any time. There are few tangible differences between races, mainly sociological, political, and psychological devices to keep certain people in power and keep others at the bottom. The fact that you would raise such racist language is pretty disappointing. However, there is clearly a difference between interest level of male and female programs generally speaking from fans and the media. Men and women ARE different.
But its Ok, Bitty I'll be whatever you want --- never mind that I haven’t for once co-signed any sort of discrimination and that Title XI is a complicated issue where individuals are going to get the short end of the stick. Whether it means fewer scholarships for male athletes of major sports, or whether it means sports like wrestling or Lacrosse completely cut from the athletic programs.
If you want to say shyt like that to me, over an issue that’s not even a black or white one, then you are obviously way too emotional and you clearly have some sort of agenda here. I cant see myself responding this way over affirmative action, which by the way has been almost completely eradicated. In addition AA was completely taken advantage of by white women who were the biggest beneficiaries, only to turn on it when it didn’t suit their needs.
Posted by PresIke:
sebstar you are my new uk hero.
no disrespect to those who disagree, btw.
Good looks man, thanks. But damn, homegirl came at me rough.
Posted by sebstar:
Alright, alright, alright. Guess people just feel comfortable comin' at my neck, calling me all kinds of foul. Now, I'm not supposed to have a daughter because I dont agree with some aspects of Title XI and I'm this hypocrite that loves sexism. I don’t even know how sex was so violently shoehorned into this convo. And yes, btw, I am aware of the difference between a pro and an amateur. College athletes are now cogs in billion dollar business --- I’ve already established such.
Your attempt at equivalency --- comparing blatant discrimination to the mechanisms of Title XI is laughable and not even worth any time. There are few tangible differences between races, mainly sociological, political, and psychological devices to keep certain people in power and keep others at the bottom. The fact that you would raise such racist language is pretty disappointing. However, there is clearly a difference between interest level of male and female programs generally speaking from fans and the media. Men and women ARE different.
But its Ok, Bitty I'll be whatever you want --- never mind that I haven’t for once co-signed any sort of discrimination and that Title XI is a complicated issue where individuals are going to get the short end of the stick. Whether it means fewer scholarships for male athletes of major sports, or whether it means sports like wrestling or Lacrosse completely cut from the athletic programs.
If you want to say shyt like that to me, over an issue that’s not even a black or white one, then you are obviously way too emotional and you clearly have some sort of agenda here. I cant see myself responding this way over affirmative action, which by the way has been almost completely eradicated. In addition AA was completely taken advantage of by white women who were the biggest beneficiaries, only to turn on it when it didn’t suit their needs.
Your knuckles still sore from being dragged on the floor all day? You really don't get it and frankly I'm not surprised because your not the first minority male to treat gender inequality in a blase manner while being the first one to call someone to the carpet when their comments can be construed as "racist". Your not even consistent and what's worse you don't even realize it. But that's right I'm emotional now because you know we women just can't stay level-head and calm like our male counterparts
.
But please whatever you do stop talking about this topic because it only gets worse Your attempt at equivalency --- comparing blatant discrimination to the mechanisms of Title XI is laughable and not even worth any time. There are few tangible differences between races, mainly sociological, political, and psychological devices to keep certain people in power and keep others at the bottom.
Let me guess not too familiar with the woman's movement huh?
Alas I would debate the whole paying college athletes but it's not even worth the time when the best solutions the crowd in favor could come up with is gender discrimination or rather just discrimination against those athletes who don't play men's basketball or football. Talk about Epic Fail
You are disrespectful as hell, you cant hold a debate without immediately jumping to petty ass name calling and wild ass conclusions. I say something you disagree with (which wasnt at all controversial) and instead of giving a reasonable rebuttal, you want to hit me with stupid ass insults.
Thats why I called you "emotional" not because you're a *gasp* female! On the real, you come across not only as an intellectual lightweight unable to hold your own, but a feminist caricature.
Heaven help whatever man is unlucky enough to get trapped by you. Straight up.
Posted by sebstar:
You are disrespectful as hell, you cant hold a debate without immediately jumping to petty ass name calling and wild ass conclusions. I say something you disagree with (which wasnt at all controversial) and instead of giving a reasonable rebuttal, you want to hit me with stupid ass insults.
Thats why I called you "emotional" not because you're a *gasp* female! On the real, you come across not only as an intellectual lightweight unable to hold your own, but a feminist caricature.
Heaven help whatever man is unlucky enough to get trapped by you. Straight up.
I would almost be offended if it weren't so damn funny how badly you've been exposed I almost feel sorry for you. Almost because then again you are the worst type of hypocrite and now you've received some criticism you result to these types of lowblows. You can't be that badly hurt by all of this? Out of respect for every other poster I'm not even going to get into some foolishness with you and plus I would actually have to care about anything you say which in case you were wondering I don't.
And just when I think you can't say anything else to make yourself look worse then you already do you take it up a notch.
It's a shame what happened to this topic. Personally I've always considered Sebstar to be a racist, woman hating, midget bashing, fat people hating, dog/cat beating nincompoop but I thought we were all having a pretty good conversation here regardless of people's points of view. What happened???
Posted by Bippity10:
It's a shame what happened to this topic. Personally I've always considered Sebstar to be a racist, woman hating, midget bashing, fat people hating, dog/cat beating nincompoop but I thought we were all having a pretty good conversation here regardless of people's points of view. What happened???
Someone with a reputation of throwing insults came in this thread and did just that. That will do it. I thought it was a good read too.
Posted by sebstar:
Heaven help whatever man is unlucky enough to get trapped by you. Straight up.
I hate to be a instigator but....
lmaooooooooooo
Good convo...to bad. First the apple, now this. Seb and Bip were so close to finding a solution to this problem too. smh.
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by sebstar:
Heaven help whatever man is unlucky enough to get trapped by you. Straight up.
I hate to be a instigator but....
lmaooooooooooo
Good convo...to bad. First the apple, now this. Seb and Bip were so close to finding a solution to this problem too. smh.
Man, we had this thing fixed. We were moving on to World Peace next. Oh well.
Posted by Bippity10:
It's a shame what happened to this topic. Personally I've always considered Sebstar to be a racist, woman hating, midget bashing, fat people hating, dog/cat beating nincompoop but I thought we were all having a pretty good conversation here regardless of people's points of view. What happened???
Sebstar started channeling Linda Blair
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by sebstar:
Heaven help whatever man is unlucky enough to get trapped by you. Straight up.
I hate to be a instigator but....
lmaooooooooooo
Good convo...to bad. First the apple, now this. Seb and Bip were so close to finding a solution to this problem too. smh.
Are you kidding that's going to be on my announcement Nazis Feminist traps poor soul into marriage and didn't you know that's how things are done in the age of the Video Hoe
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Posted by sebstar:
Heaven help whatever man is unlucky enough to get trapped by you. Straight up.
I hate to be a instigator but....
lmaooooooooooo
Good convo...to bad. First the apple, now this. Seb and Bip were so close to finding a solution to this problem too. smh.
Are you kidding that's going to be on my announcement Nazis Feminist traps poor soul into marriage and didn't you know that's how things are done in the age of the Video Hoe
Ummmmmmmm, Video hoe
Posted by martin:
ok, moving this to OT.
Was it the "video hoe" comment? I apologize.
Posted by Bippity10:
It's a shame what happened to this topic. Personally I've always considered Sebstar to be a racist, woman hating, midget bashing, fat people hating, dog/cat beating nincompoop but I thought we were all having a pretty good conversation here regardless of people's points of view. What happened???
Agreed, convo was good while it lasted. Definitely multi-dimensional topic.
