Off Topic · OT: Welcome home, Mr. Gates (page 2)

I don't give a damn what his tone of voice was; once his residence was established that should have been the end of story and the cop should have left.

Cop left. Gates followed.

Posted by kam77:

Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by kam77:

Posted by bitty41:


After it was determined that he wasn't breaking into his own residence why was it necessary for him to be arrested?

Exactly what I'd like to know. What did he say to the cop. How did he say it? It's just like a Coach saying the magic word to a referree.

What was the cop doing other than his job for Gates to become so indignant and accusatory?

Here's my question to you: Why didn't the cop just leave?

I've dealt with cops. The worst thing you can do around them is keep yapping.

Check this:
After handing the officer both his Harvard and Massachusetts state identification, which included his address, Gates said he began to ask the officer this question, repeatedly. "I said 'Who are you? I want your name and badge number.' I got angry."

So by his own admission, Gates "got angry" and questioned "repeatedly". At some point the cop will react just like a ref would react. He's human too.

Moral of the story: Start a scene in your own house with a cop present -- fine.
But walk outside to angrily continue the dialog? That is apparently crossing the line.
You can see the cops trying to keep him calm in the pic.

He kept it real and got burned.

They'd have to keep me calm too if they were leading me from my own home in handcuffs for no reason.

Listen, you wouldn't be arrested for yelling at some random dude on the street. Bottom line. Yet you get arrested for yelling at a cop. Racism aside in this situation, cops abuse their power like this all the time. I know. My brother has been in that situation before and I was there to see.

Keep in mind my brother has never had a run-in with the law or has a criminal record of any sort yet he was arrested in front of my house here in Queens when 3 undercover cops pulled out of nowhere in a minivan as my brother was parking out front and then proceeded to treat him like a criminal. They asked him (and me since I was in the car) to step out of the vehicle and began searching it for what my brother later told me was a "robbery in the neighborhood" meanwhile there was literally no news of this anywhere around here. This is a tight-nit community. We would have heard about a robbery. When they found absolutely nothing, they took my brother's driver's license (which he had given them when asked) and flung it into his car in a nonchalant/asshole type of way before walking away. My brother, being the dumbass that he is, berated these men as they were walking away for just a few seconds and told them to "lick his balls", at which point all 3 turned around, charged him, leaned him onto a vehicle with all their might that they broke his $200 glasses (not sunglasses) meanwhile he was showing little resistance. And they took him away in the minivan and drove off. Charges for "disorderly conduct" were later dropped without a court appearance.

Moral of this story: Was my brother in the right? No. But were they douchebags abusing their power after they felt their egos go down a notch? Yes. I'm not saying all police officers are like this. I respect them for protecting me and what they do is very dangerous. I don't go around disrespecting police. But police are human beings. Using choice words against them should not warrant an arrest. This isn't a communist country as far as I know. There is something called free speech.

[Edited by - GKFv2 on 07-21-2009 8:59 PM]

Posted by kam77:

I don't give a damn what his tone of voice was; once his residence was established that should have been the end of story and the cop should have left.

Cop left. Gates followed.

Wait did you miss the part where the cop arrested him? Look over the story again Gates gave him his ID/Harvard ID, asked the cop for his badge/name, the cop should have complied with the request and left.

He was arrested and put into a jail for what nothing. The police themselves have dropped all charges against him.

Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by kam77:

Posted by BasketballJones:

Posted by kam77:

Posted by bitty41:


After it was determined that he wasn't breaking into his own residence why was it necessary for him to be arrested?

Exactly what I'd like to know. What did he say to the cop. How did he say it? It's just like a Coach saying the magic word to a referree.

What was the cop doing other than his job for Gates to become so indignant and accusatory?

Here's my question to you: Why didn't the cop just leave?

I've dealt with cops. The worst thing you can do around them is keep yapping.

Check this:
After handing the officer both his Harvard and Massachusetts state identification, which included his address, Gates said he began to ask the officer this question, repeatedly. "I said 'Who are you? I want your name and badge number.' I got angry."

So by his own admission, Gates "got angry" and questioned "repeatedly". At some point the cop will react just like a ref would react. He's human too.

Moral of the story: Start a scene in your own house with a cop present -- fine.
But walk outside to angrily continue the dialog? That is apparently crossing the line.
You can see the cops trying to keep him calm in the pic.

He kept it real and got burned.

They'd have to keep me calm too if they were leading me from my own home in handcuffs for no reason.

LOLOLOL yea BJ I would be pretty angry in that situation as most people would who supposedly live in a free Society.

The only problem I see here is too many morons in police... And too many morons in general.
And it is nothing racial about it.
If even one side of this conflict will be sane, everybody will go home without all this bull; and if both sides will be normal people - they will go home laughing about the situation.
But the world is loaded of morons, so the only way to deal with it is accept this fact and move on.

Wrong

"But the world is loaded of morons, so the only way to deal with it is accept this fact and move on."

arkrud - accept it and move on? I don't think so. You confront it and change it.

You move on after someone arrests you in your own house?

Yeah right.

He wasn't arrested in his house.

This kinda thing happens soooo often but gets no attention because the individule suspect isn't a power figure..or someone of high status...

It sounds like Professor Gates wanted to be able to tell his friends, students and whoever would listen that he was treated badly by the police. The cops could have behaved better, but he was baiting them and they took the bait.

Posted by misterearl:

Wrong

"But the world is loaded of morons, so the only way to deal with it is accept this fact and move on."

arkrud - accept it and move on? I don't think so. You confront it and change it.

You move on after someone arrests you in your own house?

Yeah right.

He was arrested because he is moronic liberal who will do any stupid thing to prove his point.
Cops were stupid to get into his trap and now they look bad and deservedly so.
But they are cops, so what you want from them... they are not supposed to be the brightest; they just do their job.

Seems to me this is a best case scenario for Mr Gates. It seems from his own testimony that he was the one who got angry, he was the one who took it to another level and he was the one who instigated the arrest.

From his own testimony, the cop treated him civilly in his home. Followed procedure to the letter in following him into the kitchen, took note of the id and residence info and left.

From his own testimony, he wasnt arrested in his house.

He wasnt arrested for burglary.

He wasnt treated differently because hes black. By his own account he was treated quite civilly and when informed about his disability, the cops uncuffed him and recuffed him at the front, breaking their own rules of arrest.

He was arrested because he behaved like an idiot. Like a man hoping to be arrested. You dont yell at a bunch of cops who from his own testimony are just doing their jobs. Why aggravate the situation just as its petering out by itself? He obviously wanted this to happen.

Was it dumb of the cop not to give his badge number? Yes. Should they have just walked away when some fool is accusing them of racism? Yes. But that doesnt excuse his behaviour, or the baseless accusations of racism by these cops.

Mr Gates behaved like a muppet, and got treated like one. Once again, he wasnt arrested in his house and wasnt arrested for burglary. He got arrested for standing on his lawn in front of a bunch of cops and shouting and screaming about racism when no racism was taking place.

Good for you Mr Gates, you now have some material for your research. And you should have thought about your claustrohobia before you tried to get yourself arrested.

Oh, and he's being arrested by a black cop. Sucks that the visual couldnt help your point better Mr Gates, but try again next time.

[Edited by - firefly on 07-22-2009 06:48 AM]

kam77 - your weak excuse of a disclaimer will not fly

The fact remains that if Mr Gates showed his ID and proof that it WAS in fact his residence,

You don't think ANY person (especially one who is an elite educator and tax-paying civic contributor), White or Black, would be pissed after arriving home from a long trip from Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, only to be harassed, and the arrested for being pissed, from their own residence?

Gimme a freakin' break

HLG: The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.

It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch. And I followed him. I kept saying, “I want your name, and I want your badge number.”

It looked like an ocean of police had gathered on my front porch. There were probably half a dozen police officers at this point. The mistake I made was I stepped onto the front porch and asked one of his colleagues for his name and badge number. And when I did, the same officer said, ‘Thank you for accommodating our request. You are under arrest.’ And he handcuffed me right there. It was outrageous. My hands were behind my back I said, ‘I’m handicapped. I walk with a cane. I can’t walk to the squad car like this.’ There was a huddle among the officers; there was a black man among them. They removed the cuffs from the back and put them around the front.

A crowd had gathered, and as they were handcuffing me and walking me out to the car, I said, ‘Is this how you treat a black man in America?’

The Washington Post

So here's Gates the other day, just back from China, in his house (a tony neighborhood that I wouldn't have been caught fooling around in after, say, midnight, and by fooling around I mean walking home, because then, as a black man, you want to cross the street before the group of white females does, which you find insulting) after struggling with the jammed front door, and he suddenly notices police officers out front. Someone has called the police on him: a black man in a pricey neighborhood seen trying to get into somebody's home. The squad car rolls right up. (That's real estate reality for you: The police car might not have gotten to one of the streets over in mostly black Roxbury so quickly.) Gates wonders why the police are there; they explain why, a call about a possible break-in.

And then it probably starts to whoosh in Gates's own mind, like a desert wind that must peak before leveling off. Here we go again. Heated words because Gates, in these flashing moments, is not a scholar who studied at the University of Cambridge (in England) but a suspect. Forget the Harvard and personal ID's, he's in that touchy nexus and zone of black skin and law enforcement. And that peculiar zone can be exposed day or night. And when it beams on, it can show that the black man is carrying a lot of historical weight -- weight that Gates himself has put into scholarship and documentaries -- surrounding the heaviness of race in America. It's suddenly pent-up anger and jet-lag words flying on that wind that can't be taken back and skin color and real estate and cold eyes and I'm not breaking any law so just leave me alone please, dammit, please. Please.

But the wheels are already rolling, off to the police station.

- Wil Haygood

Posted by misterearl:

The Washington Post

So here's Gates the other day, just back from China, in his house (a tony neighborhood that I wouldn't have been caught fooling around in after, say, midnight, and by fooling around I mean walking home, because then, as a black man, you want to cross the street before the group of white females does, which you find insulting) after struggling with the jammed front door, and he suddenly notices police officers out front. Someone has called the police on him: a black man in a pricey neighborhood seen trying to get into somebody's home. The squad car rolls right up. (That's real estate reality for you: The police car might not have gotten to one of the streets over in mostly black Roxbury so quickly.) Gates wonders why the police are there; they explain why, a call about a possible break-in.

And then it probably starts to whoosh in Gates's own mind, like a desert wind that must peak before leveling off. Here we go again. Heated words because Gates, in these flashing moments, is not a scholar who studied at the University of Cambridge (in England) but a suspect. Forget the Harvard and personal ID's, he's in that touchy nexus and zone of black skin and law enforcement. And that peculiar zone can be exposed day or night. And when it beams on, it can show that the black man is carrying a lot of historical weight -- weight that Gates himself has put into scholarship and documentaries -- surrounding the heaviness of race in America. It's suddenly pent-up anger and jet-lag words flying on that wind that can't be taken back and skin color and real estate and cold eyes and I'm not breaking any law so just leave me alone please, dammit, please. Please.

But the wheels are already rolling, off to the police station.

- Wil Haygood

Thats just BS reporting and you know it Earl. This little story bears absolutely no resemblance to what actually occured. Both you and the muppet who wrote this should be ashamed. Im the first to admit that racism is rife. There are things we need to fix in society. There are cops that should be out of a job because they dsgrace the badge with their behaviour. This is not one of those cases though. Nothing to see here. The more people talk about this and keep this little story going, the happier Mr Gates is gonna be and the more money hes gonna get for his research.

There are plenty stories of racism to focus on and instigate change. This isnt one of them.

Posted by misterearl:

The Washington Post

So here's Gates the other day, just back from China, in his house (a tony neighborhood that I wouldn't have been caught fooling around in after, say, midnight, and by fooling around I mean walking home, because then, as a black man, you want to cross the street before the group of white females does, which you find insulting) after struggling with the jammed front door, and he suddenly notices police officers out front. Someone has called the police on him: a black man in a pricey neighborhood seen trying to get into somebody's home. The squad car rolls right up. (That's real estate reality for you: The police car might not have gotten to one of the streets over in mostly black Roxbury so quickly.) Gates wonders why the police are there; they explain why, a call about a possible break-in.

And then it probably starts to whoosh in Gates's own mind, like a desert wind that must peak before leveling off. Here we go again. Heated words because Gates, in these flashing moments, is not a scholar who studied at the University of Cambridge (in England) but a suspect. Forget the Harvard and personal ID's, he's in that touchy nexus and zone of black skin and law enforcement. And that peculiar zone can be exposed day or night. And when it beams on, it can show that the black man is carrying a lot of historical weight -- weight that Gates himself has put into scholarship and documentaries -- surrounding the heaviness of race in America. It's suddenly pent-up anger and jet-lag words flying on that wind that can't be taken back and skin color and real estate and cold eyes and I'm not breaking any law so just leave me alone please, dammit, please. Please.

But the wheels are already rolling, off to the police station.

- Wil Haygood

You know what, Im really wound up about this piece. This guy should lose his journalism license for this.

1. There were no cops outside when he was getting into his house.

2. The cops didnt get there very soon at all. They spend 15 minutes pushing at the front door after already trying, failing, going round the back and tking all hs luggage around the back. They then got the door open, he said goodbye to his driver, he went in, made himself comfortable and made a call. Thats a good half-hour right there.

3. There was no begging on any level from Gates, no "leave me alone".

4. He wasnt arrested for burglary. He was suspected of it, not arrested.



This article does more harm to the fight against racism then those cops did at Mr Gates' house. For shame.

[Edited by - firefly on 07-22-2009 07:30 AM]

One More Thing About Context

I was standing on Boston's City Hall Plaza the afternoon in 1976 and watched the anti-busing mob from about 500 feet away. That was the afternoon Attorney Ted Landsmark (PhD Boston University) was stabbed in the face with the American flag.

Like Yogi said. "You could look it up"

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ted+landsmark&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-22-2009 07:21 AM]

Posted by misterearl:

One More Thing About Context

I was standing on Boston's City Hall Plaza the afternoon in 1976 and watched the anti-busing mob from about 500 feet away. That was the afternoon Attorney Ted Landsmark (PhD Boston University) was stabbed in the face with the American flag.

Like Yogi said. "You could look it up"

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ted+landsmark&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-22-2009 07:21 AM]

Whats your point? Those people were racist then and there are still racist people around. They all ruin the society we live in and the sooner we eradicate racism the better. Happily, the cops who arrest Mr Gates arent racists and your story, while socilly very important on a general level, has no bearing on this story.

firefly - the piece is a commentary, intended to provide context and insight for the anger of Gates particularly for people like you.

Take off the defensive blockers, take a deep breath and read the piece again from the top.

If you read carefully you will understand it is NOT a defense of Gates or his actions.



[Edited by - misterearl on 07-22-2009 07:26 AM]

firefly - on the contrary the Ted Landsmark story has every bit of relevance to the fear on both sides.

The point is that Things do not happen in a vacuum. History provides context and perspective if you study it.

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-22-2009 07:29 AM]

Posted by misterearl:

firefly - the piece is a commentary, intended to provide context.

Take off the defensive blockers and read the piece again from the top.

Bullcrap. It provides no context and is a commentary on a fantasy incident that the author created in his mind. It certainly doesnt help anyone who hasnt actually read the full story. Read this by itself and you think Rodney King, not some fool academic desperate to prove a point.

I reject the accusation that I have defensive blockers on. I acknowledge the existence of racism and encourage and demand action to eradicate it. Find a better story and Ill stand with you at the next protest.