Posted by subzero0:
And then to make your point you say that KG and Allen joined Pierce. Yes they joined him after he was drafted by the Celtics. Then you say Pau was there to help Kobe. Yes Kobe was drafted by the Lakers. How can you still not see the pattern. I am truly amazed this is flying completely over your head... I warned you to stop reading when you try to think too much.
Also, the reason we havent been winning is not only because we didnt have the cap space its also because we didnt put good enough players around Ewing, and we didnt have a drafted superstar to build around after Ewing.
Im glad you like losing GKF because more likely than not, your going to be seeing a whole lot more of it.
Kobe was drafted by the Hornets. Traded to the Lakers for Vlade Divac.
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by CrushAlot:
A couple of things about SubZero's list of championship teams. Everyone of them had a future hall of fame coach in place except for the Celtics. Two of the MVPs were acquired thru free agency and one, Kobe was acquired thru a trade. Those teams also all benefitted from trades and free agent acquisitions in building their teams. Two of them, the Lakers and to a lesser extent the Celtics were given franchise talent players in extremely lopsided trades where former Lakers and Celtics were running the organization.
Kobe Bryant's draft rights were traded to the Lakers for Vlade Divac. Building through the draft could mean trading one of your players for someone elses draft rights, its the same thing. So lets not get nit-picky, its still building through the draft because now you have someones draft rights. The point is your getting a low cost potential superstar. With the low price your paying him, you could sign a big name player or two to go along with him. Thats the whole point.
Yes they had hall of fame coaches but dude dont you think the players had a little something to do with it? What is your point here? That championship teams need superstar coaches, so we might as well not even try to build a championship team? This argument lacks logical.
you're still talking about building through the draft but haven'r really answered my basic question above..
"Are you saying that we should NOT sign anyone this season and then NOT sign anyone in 2010 and just keep tanking to get draft picks till we're on the verge and THEN sign a marquee FA that may or not be available?"
If this is your question, then allow me to answer it now. I am saying that signing marginal at best players for a significant sum of money will hurt us because those types of players are just good enough to keep us out of contention for a top 3 pick. If you disagree with me then fine. But hopefully I have answered your question.
We don't have a draft pick this year so it doesn't matter. We are also attempting to sign these marginal players to one year contracts so they do not effect the following year. The only guy we have considered going long with have been Kidd and Sessions. It seems like a little overreaction on your part. We don't seem to be targeting too many guys that fit the model you are talking about. If in 2010 we are competing with marginal players and win 35 games like we did under Layden then complain. But now?
We don't have a draft pick this year so it doesn't matter. We are also attempting to sign these marginal players to one year contracts so they do not effect the following year. The only guy we have considered going long with have been Kidd and Sessions. It seems like a little overreaction on your part. We don't seem to be targeting too many guys that fit the model you are talking about. If in 2010 we are competing with marginal players and win 35 games like we did under Layden then complain. But now?
That's exactly what I was saying. Why complain about signing Stackhouse to a 1 year deal since we don't have a draft pick this year anyway.
What other marginal players have we offered multi year deals to?
I completely agree with you that I'd rather suck and get a great draft pick who will lead us to the promised land (the championship) then be one and done in the playoffs with an expensive mediocre team and give up cap space to do it.
I don't see how that has relevance to what Walsh is trying to do this offseason.
Anyone know who's Stackhouse's agent? Maybe Walsh brought in Stackhouse as a favor to drive up his demand
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:
We don't have a draft pick this year so it doesn't matter. We are also attempting to sign these marginal players to one year contracts so they do not effect the following year. The only guy we have considered going long with have been Kidd and Sessions. It seems like a little overreaction on your part. We don't seem to be targeting too many guys that fit the model you are talking about. If in 2010 we are competing with marginal players and win 35 games like we did under Layden then complain. But now?
That's exactly what I was saying. Why complain about signing Stackhouse to a 1 year deal since we don't have a draft pick this year anyway.
What other marginal players have we offered multi year deals to?
I completely agree with you that I'd rather suck and get a great draft pick who will lead us to the promised land (the championship) then be one and done in the playoffs with an expensive mediocre team and give up cap space to do it.
I don't see how that has relevance to what Walsh is trying to do this offseason.
You don't see how entertaining Stackhouse has relevance to what walsh is trying to do this offseason?
Well first of all we dont know how many years he is thinking of signing Stackhouse or any of the other guys that he is taking a look at for that matter.
But SavetheKnicks, what if we do sign one of these guys to a 1 year deal and then make a trade for a pick later this season. Then what? Yea, then we're screwed because we have a mediocre team and a harder chance at landing a pick in the 1-3 range. You have to think ahead when it comes to planning for the future.
Yea, we traded our pick away but that does not mean that it is impossible to get one back this season.
[Edited by - subzero0 on 08-07-2009 2:51 PM]
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by CrushAlot:
Randolph was so undesireable teams and NYK fans wanted the 6th pick in the 08 draft to be sent in a trade with him just to be rid of his contract. I think if you read that last sentence several times it will give you a more realistic perspective on what Walsh has accomplished. We weren't getting draft picks for the guys that were traded, we weren't supposed to be able to trade them without packaging other assets along with them (i.e. draft picks and young players).
what are you talking about? what people set randolph's value at on a bunch of message boards had nothing to do with his actual nba value.
Walsh turned down a 2nd rounder and a huge trade exception which would've came with it for Randolph.
Thi past summer he was traded again for an expiring and partial TE.
How people are still making such baseless statements with the freaking facts available to all is sad!
isn't it weird for u to make a statement like "How people are still making such baseless statements with the freaking facts available to all is sad!" when you have NO IDEA if Walsh was offered a 2nd rounder and huge trade exception from LAC?
so I'm making the 2nd rder for Zach trade up?
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by CrushAlot:
Randolph was so undesireable teams and NYK fans wanted the 6th pick in the 08 draft to be sent in a trade with him just to be rid of his contract. I think if you read that last sentence several times it will give you a more realistic perspective on what Walsh has accomplished. We weren't getting draft picks for the guys that were traded, we weren't supposed to be able to trade them without packaging other assets along with them (i.e. draft picks and young players).
what are you talking about? what people set randolph's value at on a bunch of message boards had nothing to do with his actual nba value.
Walsh turned down a 2nd rounder and a huge trade exception which would've came with it for Randolph.
Thi past summer he was traded again for an expiring and partial TE.
How people are still making such baseless statements with the freaking facts available to all is sad!
isn't it weird for u to make a statement like "How people are still making such baseless statements with the freaking facts available to all is sad!" when you have NO IDEA if Walsh was offered a 2nd rounder and huge trade exception from LAC?
so I'm making the 2nd rder for Zach trade up?
you might be. i actually remember that rumor as the clippers wanting our first round pick and ZBO for the second rounder and TPE. who knows what was actually on the table between the teams.
if you're saying ZBO had as much trade value as Marcus Camby, i think you are mistaken.
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by CrushAlot:
Randolph was so undesireable teams and NYK fans wanted the 6th pick in the 08 draft to be sent in a trade with him just to be rid of his contract. I think if you read that last sentence several times it will give you a more realistic perspective on what Walsh has accomplished. We weren't getting draft picks for the guys that were traded, we weren't supposed to be able to trade them without packaging other assets along with them (i.e. draft picks and young players).
what are you talking about? what people set randolph's value at on a bunch of message boards had nothing to do with his actual nba value.
Walsh turned down a 2nd rounder and a huge trade exception which would've came with it for Randolph.
Thi past summer he was traded again for an expiring and partial TE.
How people are still making such baseless statements with the freaking facts available to all is sad!
isn't it weird for u to make a statement like "How people are still making such baseless statements with the freaking facts available to all is sad!" when you have NO IDEA if Walsh was offered a 2nd rounder and huge trade exception from LAC?
so I'm making the 2nd rder for Zach trade up?
you might be. i actually remember that rumor as the clippers wanting our first round pick and ZBO for the second rounder and TPE. who knows what was actually on the table between the teams.
if you're saying ZBO had as much trade value as Marcus Camby, i think you are mistaken.
it was a very long thread on this same exact site about that deal last summer
Knicks nix Zach trade, ponder new camp site
July 13 Newsday
There will be change with the roster, that much is certain. How much and how soon remains to be seen. Walsh already proved he will work at his own pace when he turned down an offer from the Los Angeles Clippers for Zach Randolph, whom Walsh had been shopping for a while. The Clippers reportedly offered a second-round pick for Randolph, but Walsh believes he can get a better offer. Randolph, who has a hefty three years and $48 million left on his contract, is still a consistent double-double performer.
Posted by McK1:
Knicks nix Zach trade, ponder new camp site
July 13 Newsday
There will be change with the roster, that much is certain. How much and how soon remains to be seen. Walsh already proved he will work at his own pace when he turned down an offer from the Los Angeles Clippers for Zach Randolph, whom Walsh had been shopping for a while. The Clippers reportedly offered a second-round pick for Randolph, but Walsh believes he can get a better offer. Randolph, who has a hefty three years and $48 million left on his contract, is still a consistent double-double performer.
yeah, alan hahn has never been wrong before. i guess you'll be proven right if we definitely get Sessions, which hahn has been saying is going to happen.
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:
Posted by subzero0:
Posted by CrushAlot:
A couple of things about SubZero's list of championship teams. Everyone of them had a future hall of fame coach in place except for the Celtics. Two of the MVPs were acquired thru free agency and one, Kobe was acquired thru a trade. Those teams also all benefitted from trades and free agent acquisitions in building their teams. Two of them, the Lakers and to a lesser extent the Celtics were given franchise talent players in extremely lopsided trades where former Lakers and Celtics were running the organization.
Kobe Bryant's draft rights were traded to the Lakers for Vlade Divac. Building through the draft could mean trading one of your players for someone elses draft rights, its the same thing. So lets not get nit-picky, its still building through the draft because now you have someones draft rights. The point is your getting a low cost potential superstar. With the low price your paying him, you could sign a big name player or two to go along with him. Thats the whole point.
Yes they had hall of fame coaches but dude dont you think the players had a little something to do with it? What is your point here? That championship teams need superstar coaches, so we might as well not even try to build a championship team? This argument lacks logical.
you're still talking about building through the draft but haven'r really answered my basic question above..
"Are you saying that we should NOT sign anyone this season and then NOT sign anyone in 2010 and just keep tanking to get draft picks till we're on the verge and THEN sign a marquee FA that may or not be available?"
If this is your question, then allow me to answer it now. I am saying that signing marginal at best players for a significant sum of money will hurt us because those types of players are just good enough to keep us out of contention for a top 3 pick. If you disagree with me then fine. But hopefully I have answered your question.
What didd does it make if its significant amount of money or not when it comes to being in top 3 lotto spots? Also marginal or star talent present on the team doesn't have to affect your draft position(spurs tanking for Dunkan, Heat tanking coupla years ago OR Bulls getting Rose are examples of quite the opposite)
i can't type. .nor read my posts b4 posting, my bad
Posted by ramtour420:
i can't type. .nor read my posts b4 posting, my bad
It's okay. King1 suffers from the same syndrome.
Posted by ramtour420:
i can't type. .nor read my posts b4 posting, my bad
It's okay. King1 suffers from the same syndrome.
Subzero; you realize that if you trade for someone's pick the position would be based on their record not ours. At no point in time will our record affect this years pick.I think you are getting worked up for the wrong reasons.
Maybe he wants us to trade with Utah to get our pick back.
Posted by Bippity10:
Subzero; you realize that if you trade for someone's pick the position would be based on their record not ours. At no point in time will our record affect this years pick.I think you are getting worked up for the wrong reasons.
Good call Bip, I didnt realize that. This still doesnt count if Walsh decides to start giving people more than 1 year contracts though.
GK I am sorry I cant type and I am a David Lee homer. How about I put take the kids I coached vs the kids you have coached and I think my team might win hell we would probably beat some NBA teams.
Posted by King1:
GK I am sorry I cant type and I am a David Lee homer. How about I put take the kids I coached vs the kids you have coached and I think my team might win hell we would probably beat some NBA teams.
The first step is admitting your problem. Good job.
Put your team together I will call my team the David Lee Homers
PG Shaun Livingstone
SG Larry Hughes
SF Brandon Rush
PF Tyler Hansbrough
C David Lee
bench Jahidi White
bench Blake Ahearn
bench Loren Woods
I am sure you team would look something like this
PG KIm Fields
SG Mindy Kohn
SF Pam Dawber
PF Lark Voorhies
C Tracy Gold
I may be a homer but I dont say that Chris Wilcox is better than David is like you did when we trade for him. Must have been some bad weed going around the dorms when that was said
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by ramtour420:
i can't type. .nor read my posts b4 posting, my bad
It's okay. King1 suffers from the same syndrome.
Who the heck are you to continually break them on king1? Grow up kid your act is old and you are the most disrespectful person here.
[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-09-2009 01:32 AM]
