Knicks · Knicks Include Galo in latest offer (page 12)

On my phone but hahn is reporting that the nuggets now like fields/moz rsther than gallo

nyk4ever wrote:On my phone but hahn is reporting that the nuggets now like fields/moz rsther than gallo

Just shows once again that Denver doesn't really want to trade Melo. They keep changing the players they want whenever a deal gets close.

nyk4ever wrote:On my phone but hahn is reporting that the nuggets now like fields/moz rsther than gallo

If Knicks can somehow keep Gallinari in this deal, as NBAtv says DEN prefers Mozgov/Fields instead, that would be amazing.

I'd probably be inclined to do it, but there goes another 2 starters...

Knickoftime wrote:The question is, how long are you going to wait, satisfied with playing your first round playoff series on the road, waiting for the exact series of opportunities to come along.

it's not so much a question for how long but rather for the right opportunity. Boston and Miami both waited to strike and made sure the had the right core to be competitive and so should Knicks.

You didn't really address how the Knicks compete with MIA, CHI, LAL, OKC long term.

2012:

Amare  		 $19.9 
Melo		 $19.9 
Turiaf 		
Mozgov 		 $3.1 
TD		 $2.0 
Williams 	 $1.0 
Rautins 	 $1.0 
Fields 		 $3.0 
2011 First Round $1.0 
--------------------------		
		 $50.9

How does that compete? And how do you build that past MIA, CHI, LAL, OKC even assuming that the cap is somewhere in the mid-60's. No bench, no defense, no PG.

With all due courtesy, what trade you'd "rather" do really isn't the point. There has never been ANY evidence from anyone or anywhere that Denver would eventually cave to essentially swapping Chandler for 'Melo.

That has been wishful rationalization ("better than nothing") from the get-go.

The question is do you do the deal that is now being reported, or let 'Melo go to the Nets or stay in Denver?

I let Melo think about going to the Nets and watch him fold, meaning I pass on the deal as it is structured. It's the same reason he wants out of Denver: he knows the team can't compete.

You do the deal and you guarantee that you won't much get past the second round, not taking trade you at least still have the possibility of building to a championship.

To me it's like accepting a big mortgage for a house knowing full well that you can pay at least $1500 of the $2000 and just assuming that you can come up with the extra $500 some place. And not even taking a look at the roof (PG, bench) that is going to add an extra $300 a month for a couple of years of additional mortgage. You'll have the house for a while and be happy and then one day the bank calls and you don't have the extra cash.

Something that should be taken into account is that Gallo shoots 10.8 shots per game while Melo shots 19.3. Denver isn't and has never been considered an elite team. Gallo isn't the first option and a lot of times they aren't looking to get him involved. But lets say you allowed Gallo the same freedom and the same number of shots.

Gallo gets to the line you give him 3pts on the line and 6 more points by shooting 3-9 which is more than fair.

Melo average 25.2pts a game Gallo 15.9pts (23.9pts)

This isn't really that far fetched

Games Gallo has shot the ball 15 times and points scored in those games

14
20
25
23
21
25

Scoring isn't really the big issue here. Let's say that we don't get Melo and keep our pieces. We can just as easily swing a deal with the guys we have next year. So he goes to the Nets they give up their entire team and are stuck with Lopez, Humpries, Farmer, Melo great.

How about we do the following. Deandre Jordan for $7 million, Big Baby for $5M and resigned Wilson for $9m. You can move AR and free up the $3.9M that makes us a complete team

Felton/Douglas
Fields
Gallo/Chandler
Amare/Baby
Jordan/Moz

We have a huge front court added depth and an improved defense and can keep Amare's minutes down.

martin wrote:it's not so much a question for how long but rather for the right opportunity. Boston and Miami both waited to strike and made sure the had the right core to be competitive and so should Knicks.

What opportunity?

Miami saw James, Wade and Bosh coming to the market years ago. So did the rest of the NBA.

Everyone knows who the 2012 class is.

Are you advocating "waiting" until 2013, 2014?

You didn't really address how the Knicks compete with MIA, CHI, LAL, OKC long term.

Sure I did.

I have no guarantees that Knicks will be able to compete with them for the next 3-4 years. There IS one scenario everyone has to consider - that a championship opportunity may NEVER present itself.

I also know there are no guarantees the Knicks will ever be able to get another player better than Anthony.

I also think the Knicks are in better position to get Chris Paul with this deal than otherwise.

And "flexibility" has a shelf-life.

Chandler is a free agent this off-season. Gallo, Fields and Felton the next.

Knicks "flexibility" shelf-life is this off-season and next, max. Then the bills start arriving. The pieces have to be in place by fall of 2012 or the Knicks window closes.

We know the piece in play through 2012, unless you're willing to bypass on Anthony on the hope a really good player is made available by trade and the Knicks develop the pieces to attract this player*

[* but of course ANY trade that the knicks send multiple players for one will be deemed as "gutting"]

How does that compete? And how do you build that past MIA, CHI, LAL, OKC even assuming that the cap is somewhere in the mid-60's. No bench, no defense, no PG.

I'll say it again. They immediately become better than they are now.

2012

Amare $19.9
Chandler $8.00 (pretty conservative)
Gallo $12.6 (that's just his cap hold)
Mozgov $3.1
TD $2.0
Williams $1.0
Rautins $1.0
Fields $6.0 (Fields will get the max contract available to him)
2011 First Round $1.5 (more accurate estimate)

$55.1m and no PG to speak of. You can sign Felton with his early Bird Rights of course, but then you can't add anyone else.

I GET people are reluctant because they don't think the move directly correlates to a championship.

I just want to know what better options will be out there?

You do the deal and you guarantee that you won't much get past the second round, not taking trade you at least still have the possibility of building to a championship.

"Possibility" = "hope" without any notion of any real specifics.

You want to knowingly NOT make the team better just so you can dream of some bolt of lightning hitting sometime in the next 500 days, you're more than entitled.

But it is what it is. Clinging to a dream.

MS wrote:How about we do the following. Deandre Jordan for $7 million, Big Baby for $5M and resigned Wilson for $9m. You can move AR and free up the $3.9M that makes us a complete team

We have a huge front court added depth and an improved defense and can keep Amare's minutes down.

And if the Clips match and Davis stays in Boston?

What then?

In the last hour I have seen the following (I apologize for not adding links...my kids will barely be quiet enough for me to type this):

*Nets not going to meet with Melo

*Melo says that after his meeting on the CBA...doesn't see going into FA as a "big risk" (in other words...hey Denver, I am gone one way or another....)

*NYT reports Melo is telling people he will not sign with the Nets...

Lots of leaks....all seeming to put the pressure right back on Denver...don't know what it all means; but, like the direction it is going...a lot!!!

Like Kobe said about Bynum when the Jason Kidd talks were going on...

"Ship his ass out"

we're in the upper echelon of teams offensively... if we can get a center that helps us defensively while not being a liability on offense then yes we can compete...

the phoenix teams were historically good on offense while being middle of the road defensively... those teams would be good enough to win the east this year..

FistOfOakley wrote:we're in the upper echelon of teams offensively... if we can get a center that helps us defensively while not being a liability on offense then yes we can compete...

Who?

nixluva wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:It's over guys. It's freaking over. If this deal gets done we are dooming ourselves to becoming another version of the Atlanta Hawks. We'll win 50 games and go out in the 1st or 2nd round every year. WE won't have the assets or cap space left to fill glaring holes defensively, rebounding, and ultimately at PG too. In 2-3 years after that becomes obvious to everyone, we'll be having the same conversations about how we can rebuild in 2016.

Why so down on this? The Hawks don't have 2 ELITE players on their roster. Heck not even ONE. The comparison is off base. The last time Mike had players of this kind of caliber, he was winning 60 games!!! It's a mistake to think that it won't be a huge improvement as you improve the talent from avg. players to having 2 Elite players in your starting lineup.

Also we actually don't lose anything at the PG spot. In fact Billups has more experience and pure PG skills. He may not be young and speedy, but he knows how to play winning basketball and was part of the reason the Nuggets improved since he arrived. We'll be able to fill the holes we have in our roster and in fact it should be easier to convince guys to come here and try to win a title now that we'd have 2 Superstars. This is just step 2 in the overall plan. We get the 2 superstars we set out to get and IMO the rest is actually easier to accomplish.

Are you kidding me? Have you seen Josh Smith? We have no player like him. And the Hawks are still just a playoff team. Not a contending team.

93BUICK wrote:We hope it's more like the Shaq to Miami for Odom and Butler deal- giving up on 2 very talented, useful players for a truly dominant one-

Are you kidding me? Melo ain't no Shaq

FistOfOakley wrote:the phoenix teams were historically good on offense while being middle of the road defensively... those teams would be good enough to win the east this year..

Totally disagree.

All I know is that there were those who doubted the impact that Amar'e would have on the team and now we see just how much of a difference it makes having a stud. If we had consistent play at the other positions, this team would be competing at a much higher level. Amar'e is doing what he's supposed to do every night, but we can't depend on some other key guys. This kind of deal is made to change that. Yeah it's a heavy cost, but it's hard to know just how much of an impact having another consistently high performer would make. My guess is that it will make a huge difference.

All of a sudden you have your 2 best players taking the bulk of the shots and being more productive doing it. Those scoring droughts become fewer. We lose a bit of D, but probably not enough to make a noticeable difference. Besides the key is to be more efficient than your opponent and that's how Mike's teams usually win. With this roster, we're never going to be a shutdown defensive team. No sense pretending. They've decided to double down on offense, which is our strength. If we went after a C, a rebounding PF and a PG perhaps you could say they're at least trying to improve the D. But they clearly are trying to improve offensively.

nixluva wrote:All I know is that there were those who doubted the impact that Amar'e would have on the team and now we see just how much of a difference it makes having a stud. If we had consistent play at the other positions, this team would be competing at a much higher level. Amar'e is doing what he's supposed to do every night, but we can't depend on some other key guys. This kind of deal is made to change that. Yeah it's a heavy cost, but it's hard to know just how much of an impact having another consistently high performer would make. My guess is that it will make a huge difference.

All of a sudden you have your 2 best players taking the bulk of the shots and being more productive doing it. Those scoring droughts become fewer. We lose a bit of D, but probably not enough to make a noticeable difference. Besides the key is to be more efficient than your opponent and that's how Mike's teams usually win. With this roster, we're never going to be a shutdown defensive team. No sense pretending. They've decided to double down on offense, which is our strength. If we went after a C, a rebounding PF and a PG perhaps you could say they're at least trying to improve the D. But they clearly are trying to improve offensively.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Gotta love it. Same people who are blasting the Knicks for this proposed trade will be the same ones blasting the Knicks if Melo goes to the Nyets.

And they were against signing Amare and letting David Lee walk.

Ohh this is so wrong it's not even funny. Yeah, people wanted to keep Lee, but not for the bigger picture.

You either have selective amnesia or you missed those threads. What bigger picture were they thinking of by giving Lee $80 million? See how Bonn's feels!

And proudly so on my part (except for letting Lee walk). Nothing against Amare either, as I've explained before.

First off, no need for the insults. I am going by what I read. Second off, Bonn wasn't even posting a year ago when we were talking about Lee Vs Stat and Bosh vs Lee (Which I actually said I'd rather have Lee over Bosh at a cheaper price).

And finally, when it was Free Agent time, I'm almost positive that I would say, 85% of us were thrilled that we signed Amar'e and then made the Lee trade. And I know Bonn would have preferred another way and I he stated that, and that's fine and his opinion. It's not right or wrong because so far, we haven't won a championship, so each opinion is every bit as valid.

And for the record, the bigger picture was LeBron. There was no way we'd keep Lee and have LeBron and Amar'e. If both of those guys decided to go to Miami and stay in Phoenix, then I am pretty sure most of the board (Myself included) would have been happy to keep Lee.

I did not insult you. What Bonn said today a lot of others were saying back then. I still don't get what you/others meant by the "bigger picture" because Amare had signed in NY so it was either Amare or Lee. But whatever! Have it your way dude.

You said I have selected Amnesia. No need for that. Secondly, I told you in that very sentence, right before the one you bolded, what the big picture was.

I was posting here then.
Silver, you can read what I wrote here for the most recent time I discussed my views on the best (meaning least improbable) way to build a championship team: http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=38052&page=1

babyKnicks wrote:

nixluva wrote:All I know is that there were those who doubted the impact that Amar'e would have on the team and now we see just how much of a difference it makes having a stud. If we had consistent play at the other positions, this team would be competing at a much higher level. Amar'e is doing what he's supposed to do every night, but we can't depend on some other key guys. This kind of deal is made to change that. Yeah it's a heavy cost, but it's hard to know just how much of an impact having another consistently high performer would make. My guess is that it will make a huge difference.

All of a sudden you have your 2 best players taking the bulk of the shots and being more productive doing it. Those scoring droughts become fewer. We lose a bit of D, but probably not enough to make a noticeable difference. Besides the key is to be more efficient than your opponent and that's how Mike's teams usually win. With this roster, we're never going to be a shutdown defensive team. No sense pretending. They've decided to double down on offense, which is our strength. If we went after a C, a rebounding PF and a PG perhaps you could say they're at least trying to improve the D. But they clearly are trying to improve offensively.

What did I say that wasn't based on the evidence of the actions the Knicks are taking? It's not about drinking the Koolaid. I'm stating the facts. The Knicks are doubling down on offense. They're not chasing a defensive stopper, but a top scorer in the league!. How else can it be explained. We win with decent D and Great offense. When we're scoring teams have a hard time beating us. So the Knicks are improving the scoring. So long as they give max effort on D it should be just enough to win. That's been the M.O. of Mike's system forever and that's the kind of team we have now. Am I wrong?

Bonn: Waiting to get Deron or Howard is playing with fire. There is very little chance they will come to NY. But you are entitled to your opinion.

Losing Felton at a great salary will be huge for the Knicks...I would definitely be more willing to pay Denver the 7 mil(half Billups salary)to keep Felton...It will have impact in adding pieces to under the cap later...That and he is younger...Not sure if up-front money payout hits the cap but I'll definitely look into it if I were the Knicks....

holfresh wrote:Losing Felton at a great salary will be huge for the Knicks...I would definitely be more willing to pay Denver the 7 mil(half Billups salary)to keep Felton...It will have impact in adding pieces to under the cap later...That and he is younger...Not sure if up-front money payout hits the cap but I'll definitely look into it if I were the Knicks....

Billups expires the same time as Felton. Knicks are only getting a better PG.