another endorsement of big coach mike
coach mike for president
He bought into it alright. He's taking more 3's than he ever has in his career. D'Antoni basketball.
Childs2Dudley wrote:He bought into it alright. He's taking more 3's than he ever has in his career. D'Antoni basketball.
yes... less than 2 more threes a game than his average. His FG% is higher also. So lets see... elite scorer becomes better.
Watch Melo go from all star caliber to MVP caliber like that Steve Nash guy and the Knicks compete for a title like MDA's Suns teams. I wonder what the reaction would be then?
What happens when Melo is giving you 30ppg, 8rebs and shooting a career best 48% next year in the SSOL while the Knicks win 55 games and go the Eastern Conf finals? D'Antoni basketball.
Juice wrote:Basically Anthony bought into chucking 3s and he's having success but like all numbers they'll come to their eventuality. Anthony much like this team will live and die by the 3 he won't be immune to it.
I agree. He's taking the kind of low percentage shots that are going to keep him at the 45% shooter level, even if he is on a hot streak at the moment.
fishmike wrote:Juice wrote:Basically Anthony bought into chucking 3s and he's having success but like all numbers they'll come to their eventuality. Anthony much like this team will live and die by the 3 he won't be immune to it.
yes.. you nailed. MDA just said "hey Melo.. all I care about is you chucking up 3s"Melo's career is 2.5 threes a game. With the Knicks he's shooting 4.5
TWO more 3 pt attempts a game above his career and he's shooting > 40%
Great analysis
I dont even love MDA. He's a good coach in this league and has proven that. He's been OK with the Knicks. Some good, some bad. He was handed an entirely new roster with different kind of players than his previous team with 8 weeks in the season and after some very poor play the Knicks win 7 in a row and are playing very good ball heading into the playoffs and still you guys just make up crap about how he coaches and ignore anything based on reality. I dont get the hate. Is it the stache? 
It's hate to expect Carmelo's 3 pt % to return closer to his career average? It sounds like blind optimism not to.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Juice wrote:Basically Anthony bought into chucking 3s and he's having success but like all numbers they'll come to their eventuality. Anthony much like this team will live and die by the 3 he won't be immune to it.
yes.. you nailed. MDA just said "hey Melo.. all I care about is you chucking up 3s"Melo's career is 2.5 threes a game. With the Knicks he's shooting 4.5
TWO more 3 pt attempts a game above his career and he's shooting > 40%
Great analysis
I dont even love MDA. He's a good coach in this league and has proven that. He's been OK with the Knicks. Some good, some bad. He was handed an entirely new roster with different kind of players than his previous team with 8 weeks in the season and after some very poor play the Knicks win 7 in a row and are playing very good ball heading into the playoffs and still you guys just make up crap about how he coaches and ignore anything based on reality. I dont get the hate. Is it the stache?
It's hate to expect Carmelo's 3 pt % to return closer to his career average? It sounds like blind optimism not to.
really? it's that extreme? it couldn't have anything to do with any other factors? it's impossible that his 3pt attempts in Denver were more of the contested, end-of-the-shot-clock variety, whereas here, he's pulling while uncontested and in the flow? his 3pt percentage is going to be what it is for his entire career? no chance it improves and stays there?
fishmike wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:He bought into it alright. He's taking more 3's than he ever has in his career. D'Antoni basketball.
What happens when Melo is giving you 30ppg, 8rebs and shooting a career best 48% next year in the SSOL while the Knicks win 55 games and go the Eastern Conf finals? D'Antoni basketball.
You'll still call him Gilbert Arenas. That's what will happen.
The D'Antoni 3 pt philosophy is not just to take more 3's. Its to take more advantageous 3's- early in the clock when the defense can't set and at the spots on the floor where the shot is at its highest percentage. Note that the Knicks are 7th in the league 3pt FG% - so its not like taking more is chucking. They still shoot the ball efficiently. Its one of the biggest reasons why our adjusted FG% is 8th in the league. This isn't just a high volume/high pace/high total offense. The reason why its so prolific is that it operates at a high efficiency as well.
VDesai wrote:The D'Antoni 3 pt philosophy is not just to take more 3's. Its to take more advantageous 3's- early in the clock when the defense can't set and at the spots on the floor where the shot is at its highest percentage. Note that the Knicks are 7th in the league 3pt FG% - so its not like taking more is chucking. They still shoot the ball efficiently. Its one of the biggest reasons why our adjusted FG% is 8th in the league. This isn't just a high volume/high pace/high total offense. The reason why its so prolific is that it operates at a high efficiency as well.
injecting that kind of logic around here is apt to get you on ignore.
Why look at numbers or results? Silly boy!
VDesai wrote:The D'Antoni 3 pt philosophy is not just to take more 3's. Its to take more advantageous 3's- early in the clock when the defense can't set and at the spots on the floor where the shot is at its highest percentage. Note that the Knicks are 7th in the league 3pt FG% - so its not like taking more is chucking. They still shoot the ball efficiently. Its one of the biggest reasons why our adjusted FG% is 8th in the league. This isn't just a high volume/high pace/high total offense. The reason why its so prolific is that it operates at a high efficiency as well.
My problem with D'antoni's style has nothing to do with offense.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:fishmike wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:He bought into it alright. He's taking more 3's than he ever has in his career. D'Antoni basketball.
What happens when Melo is giving you 30ppg, 8rebs and shooting a career best 48% next year in the SSOL while the Knicks win 55 games and go the Eastern Conf finals? D'Antoni basketball.
You'll still call him Gilbert Arenas. That's what will happen.
you upset about that? I ALWAYS said "pre-injury" when making that comparison and whats your beef? Arenas was one of the best players in the league before he got hurt. Pre-injury Gilbert is where Melo is right now. We ALL hope he's a bit more isnt he?
That being said Arenas was headed for a HOF career before blowing out his knee.
fishmike wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:fishmike wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:He bought into it alright. He's taking more 3's than he ever has in his career. D'Antoni basketball.
What happens when Melo is giving you 30ppg, 8rebs and shooting a career best 48% next year in the SSOL while the Knicks win 55 games and go the Eastern Conf finals? D'Antoni basketball.
You'll still call him Gilbert Arenas. That's what will happen.
you upset about that? I ALWAYS said "pre-injury" when making that comparison and whats your beef? Arenas was one of the best players in the league before he got hurt. Pre-injury Gilbert is where Melo is right now. We ALL hope he's a bit more isnt he?That being said Arenas was headed for a HOF career before blowing out his knee.
Not upset at all. Just pointing out that you're being two-sided, that's all.
Melo is Gilbert to you, but when he puts up 30 and 8, D'antoni will get all the credit.
^^^ and 'a bit more' takes him from all-star area to franchise player top 5 zone. He's not there, and never has been. Lets hope he takes the next step. 26 years old... its possible
eViL wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Juice wrote:Basically Anthony bought into chucking 3s and he's having success but like all numbers they'll come to their eventuality. Anthony much like this team will live and die by the 3 he won't be immune to it.
yes.. you nailed. MDA just said "hey Melo.. all I care about is you chucking up 3s"Melo's career is 2.5 threes a game. With the Knicks he's shooting 4.5
TWO more 3 pt attempts a game above his career and he's shooting > 40%
Great analysis
I dont even love MDA. He's a good coach in this league and has proven that. He's been OK with the Knicks. Some good, some bad. He was handed an entirely new roster with different kind of players than his previous team with 8 weeks in the season and after some very poor play the Knicks win 7 in a row and are playing very good ball heading into the playoffs and still you guys just make up crap about how he coaches and ignore anything based on reality. I dont get the hate. Is it the stache?
It's hate to expect Carmelo's 3 pt % to return closer to his career average? It sounds like blind optimism not to.
really? it's that extreme? it couldn't have anything to do with any other factors? it's impossible that his 3pt attempts in Denver were more of the contested, end-of-the-shot-clock variety, whereas here, he's pulling while uncontested and in the flow? his 3pt percentage is going to be what it is for his entire career? no chance it improves and stays there?
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_to_the_mean
People always over-interpret surprising statistics based on small samples. If he keeps this % up for a year and half I'll be happily shocked.
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id...
SEASON TEAM GP GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P%
'96-'97 PHX 65 2 10.5 1.1-2.7 0.423 0.4-0.8 0.418
'97-'98 PHX 76 9 21.9 3.5-7.7 0.459 1.1-2.6 0.415
'98-'99 DAL 40 40 31.7 2.9-7.8 0.363 1.2-3.3 0.374
'99-'00 DAL 56 27 27.4 3.1-6.5 0.477 1.1-2.7 0.403
'00-'01 DAL 70 70 34.1 5.5-11.3 0.487 1.3-3.1 0.406
'01-'02 DAL 82 82 34.6 6.4-13.3 0.483 1.9-4.2 0.455
'02-'03 DAL 82 82 33.1 6.3-13.6 0.465 1.4-3.3 0.413
'03-'04 DAL 78 78 33.5 5.1-10.8 0.470 1.3-3.3 0.405
'04-'05 PHX 75 75 34.3 5.7-11.4 0.502 1.3-2.9 0.431
'05-'06 PHX 79 79 35.4 6.8-13.4 0.512 1.9-4.3 0.439
'06-'07 PHX 76 76 35.3 6.8-12.8 0.532 2.1-4.5 0.455
'07-'08 PHX 81 81 34.3 6.0-11.9 0.504 2.2-4.7 0.470
'08-'09 PHX 74 73 33.6 5.8-11.5 0.503 1.5-3.3 0.439
'09-'10 PHX 81 81 32.8 6.2-12.2 0.507 1.5-3.6 0.426
'10-'11 PHX 74 74 33.3 5.4-10.8 0.494 1.1-2.8 0.395
not confirmation or anything, but certainly adds fuel to the fire.
Lots of factors here, and teammates, injuries, etc all will have impact, so hard to pin-point anything.
The first 2 years of Nash he didn't play much, so I tend not to put too much weight there.
But clearly in PHO, his 3pt% is up and stays there. And in fact, Nash's 1 year in Dallas where he shoots 4+ from 3pt-land, his % is better than his other years.
Draw your own conclusions.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:Rookie wrote:fishmike wrote:CashMoney wrote: Year 3 of what seemed like an impossible rebuilding plan in 2008 has been a success and at the very least New York will have something to build on for next season. 
these playoffs are so important. I hate having Boston. I think its the worst draw for us to advance, something we really need to do.I think the big thing is if we have a big series from a couple guys... maybe Douglas, or even a guy like Turiaf, I'm looking at a couple nice young role players to package w/ Billups's huge expiring contract (Assuming we pick up option) for some depth around Melo and Amare.
get me Okafor 
I would do that, even if CP3 doesnt come back.Billups, Fields and Turiaf for OK4 and Ariza. Maybe give them some cash. That gives NO a ton of flexibility moving forward. They are paying Ariza/OK4 about $18mm a year plus for the next 3-4 years. Its too much for them. This would save them a ton of money and Billups could move to SG at this point no problem.
Knicks get EXACTLY the kind of role players they need to be elite
PG Douglas
SG Ariza
SF Melo
PF Stat
C Ok4
whole lotta defense and rebounding around Melo/Stat... two of the top 10 scorers in the league.
I would be pretty pumped about that.
Maybe draft a PG and use the MLE on a guy like Reggie Evans or even Michael Redd
oh interesting lineup. I could roll with that.
Dougas as a starting PG this year: 14ppg, 6 assist, 1.5 TOs 53% FGsI believe in this guy. He doesnt have to be a star, but he can score, handle the ball, set up teammates and plays great defense. He's tough and competes and I think can be a legit 3rd scoring option. He's not a great floor general but neither was Billups for that matter. He fits the mold of what I want to surround Melo/stat with... tough defensive lunch pale blue collar type guys.
No Way!! I like Douglas a lot but NO WAY is he a starting poing guard. He is great as a combo guard , pg part time. When and if he plays PG full time, this team struggles.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:fishmike wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:fishmike wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:He bought into it alright. He's taking more 3's than he ever has in his career. D'Antoni basketball.
What happens when Melo is giving you 30ppg, 8rebs and shooting a career best 48% next year in the SSOL while the Knicks win 55 games and go the Eastern Conf finals? D'Antoni basketball.
You'll still call him Gilbert Arenas. That's what will happen.
you upset about that? I ALWAYS said "pre-injury" when making that comparison and whats your beef? Arenas was one of the best players in the league before he got hurt. Pre-injury Gilbert is where Melo is right now. We ALL hope he's a bit more isnt he?That being said Arenas was headed for a HOF career before blowing out his knee.
Not upset at all. Just pointing out that you're being two-sided, that's all.
Melo is Gilbert to you, but when he puts up 30 and 8, D'antoni will get all the credit.
not all of it... never all of it.
Tell me... regardless of whether or not you think he deserved the award what was the biggest factor for Nash going from all star to MVP? (MDA). How about Billups going from journeyman to mr bigshot and an elite PG? (Larry Brown). How about Iverson going from a guy who just shoots 30x a game to an MVP? (Larry Brown again). How about Camby going from athletic shot blocker to an elite rebounder? (JVG).
Sometimes you get lucky enough to find the perfect coach for a player and that player clearly takes a next step.
I think you got me pegged wrong though. Credit goes where credit is deserved. I will 100% admit to one thing though... it drives me nuts when fans blame coaches for poor effort from players. These guys are pros and paid millions to be in shape and play hard. Sometimes coaches get the most out of certain players. Other (great) coaches fail to reach talented players. Look at Sloan and Deron. Great coach. Great player. Couldnt work together. It happens. Look at Eddy Curry. Dude has absolute gifts, but he doesnt love the game and doesnt work hard. How many coaches failed to motivate him? Who's fault?
For me the coach is always 2nd in the NBA. Get good players first. NBA coaches are like MLB coaches. Some impact players, others dont do much more than any of the others. At the end of the day Melo has to knock down the shot, or get the stop, NOT MDA. The players get the glory (as they should!). The same players should get the criticism. Thats all I'm saying on that.
BigRedDog wrote:No Way!! I like Douglas a lot but NO WAY is he a starting poing guard. He is great as a combo guard , pg part time. When and if he plays PG full time, this team struggles.
last time TD was starting PG we went 4-2 beating Memphis, ATL and NO all on the road. His skills are a good fit. I mean, I would rather have Deron Williams but TD brings good things to the table
I think Douglas could be the starting "point" guard, if they run the O More through Melo going forward and Douglas just brings it up, drives or waits for the kick out pass. It's all a matter of getting the right big. Kaman, Okafor, Camby or even Nazr could work with these two forwards. I have some hopes for Jerome Jordan as he has the tools to defend, rebound and run the floor. But he'd have to be part of a rotation with a player we don't have yet.
PhilinLA wrote:I think Douglas could be the starting "point" guard, if they run the O More through Melo going forward and Douglas just brings it up, drives or waits for the kick out pass. It's all a matter of getting the right big. Kaman, Okafor, Camby or even Nazr could work with these two forwards. I have some hopes for Jerome Jordan as he has the tools to defend, rebound and run the floor. But he'd have to be part of a rotation with a player we don't have yet.
woah - blast from the past. what's up phil?
fishmike wrote:Rookie wrote:fishmike wrote:CashMoney wrote: Year 3 of what seemed like an impossible rebuilding plan in 2008 has been a success and at the very least New York will have something to build on for next season.
these playoffs are so important. I hate having Boston. I think its the worst draw for us to advance, something we really need to do.I think the big thing is if we have a big series from a couple guys... maybe Douglas, or even a guy like Turiaf, I'm looking at a couple nice young role players to package w/ Billups's huge expiring contract (Assuming we pick up option) for some depth around Melo and Amare.
get me Okafor
I would do that, even if CP3 doesnt come back.Billups, Fields and Turiaf for OK4 and Ariza. Maybe give them some cash. That gives NO a ton of flexibility moving forward. They are paying Ariza/OK4 about $18mm a year plus for the next 3-4 years. Its too much for them. This would save them a ton of money and Billups could move to SG at this point no problem.
Knicks get EXACTLY the kind of role players they need to be elite
PG Douglas
SG Ariza
SF Melo
PF Stat
C Ok4
whole lotta defense and rebounding around Melo/Stat... two of the top 10 scorers in the league.
I would be pretty pumped about that.
Maybe draft a PG and use the MLE on a guy like Reggie Evans or even Michael Redd
I'd actually sign on off that because Ariza's a perfect fit for SG in D'Antoni's offense and I like Okafor for rebounding/defense, but I'd worry that it still doesn't have depth and that the Knicks have absolutely no flexibility if they do that deal. That's not a huge concern, but the depth is especially if Ronnie's not there. Behind that you'd have a 1st round pick, whatever MLE guy you could sign, and the players you'd have assuming nobody expires are Williams, Williams, Walker and Carter, so you'd basically have to go 2/2 on a Center and a PG for this to work, but it could...
