Knicks · MDA was just on Mike and Mike in the morning... (page 6)

Nalod wrote:

Juice wrote:

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

if you think pace is an excuse you don't really understand its importance. it's an underlying fundamental to team efficiency stats, which are pretty much the best barometer for comparing teams.

Not when he admits that the way we play can actually help a team get on a roll as he did in the interview yesterday...stating the team has to find a way to weather those moments. Look if we're already at a disadvantage for whatever excuse you want to make about the personnel lacking ability to play D then please don't implement a system(with little adjustments) where the margin for error is compounded due to style of play

Wouldn't the same hold true about a defensive team? Slow it down enough both teams are out of synch?

Remember those great defesive match ups with the Heat that were so offensively challenged it was awful to watch? Then Timmy Hardaway would say "Fuckit" and throw a few in and the game was over!

Yes and it would be that team's responsibility to make sure they have ways to score if it's their biggest weakness

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

if you think pace is an excuse you don't really understand its importance. it's an underlying fundamental to team efficiency stats, which are pretty much the best barometer for comparing teams.

Ok, ill be fair here. Because we push the pace a lot, we create more shot attempts for ourselves as well as the opponent. This is probably the biggest reason why we're in the top 5 in PPG and bottom 5 in OPP PPG.

But its the OPP FG% stats that get Dantoni in trouble. This stat doesn't excuse him as much, and does not get impacted by pace as much as the OPP PPG does.

Regardless of pace, this team let's its opponent shoot a higher percentage than the average team, and that accountability falls on the head coach.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

if you think pace is an excuse you don't really understand its importance. it's an underlying fundamental to team efficiency stats, which are pretty much the best barometer for comparing teams.

Ok, ill be fair here. Because we push the pace a lot, we create more shot attempts for ourselves as well as the opponent. This is probably the biggest reason why we're in the top 5 in PPG and bottom 5 in OPP PPG.

But its the OPP FG% stats that get Dantoni in trouble. This stat doesn't excuse him as much, and does not get impacted by pace as much as the OPP PPG does.

Regardless of pace, this team let's its opponent shoot a higher percentage than the average team, and that accountability falls on the head coach.

i agree that opp fg% is a concern. my un-researched take is that the biggest contributor to that problem is second chance points. how many times does this team get a stop when it needs one only to give up the follow? how much of that falls on the coach v. the GM is up for debate. we really don't have a solid complimentary big man / bruiser / rebounder / intimidator. we need one. i think if we can get one, we'd be a hell of a lot better.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

if you think pace is an excuse you don't really understand its importance. it's an underlying fundamental to team efficiency stats, which are pretty much the best barometer for comparing teams.

Ok, ill be fair here. Because we push the pace a lot, we create more shot attempts for ourselves as well as the opponent. This is probably the biggest reason why we're in the top 5 in PPG and bottom 5 in OPP PPG.

But its the OPP FG% stats that get Dantoni in trouble. This stat doesn't excuse him as much, and does not get impacted by pace as much as the OPP PPG does.

Regardless of pace, this team let's its opponent shoot a higher percentage than the average team, and that accountability falls on the head coach.

Look, nobody said MDA is freaking Red Auerbach!

The man has a plan thats extreme. I wonder if he was able to integrate Shaq when they had what could have been there.

Your whole bone of contention is: "Knicks don't play good D statistically and statistically no great team has ever NOT done that and won big".

I get that. Nobody argues this. Its history, its logically and perhaps safe to attempt.

MDA says: "Phuch that, Im about point differential and Im going to build a motherphuching juggernaut that you will get sucked up in to and have to stop it and yourself to win!" Its fun to watch and will make its owner money.

Nalod says: "Do it, and do it well"

MDA says:"get me my greyhounds to run it and it will be epic"!

Donnie says: "Dude you were on hip check away from the sweep pulp of a perpetually full "Juice Card"! what can I get you".

MDA: "After the playoffs, we'll talk!"

Dolan: "Cha-Ching bitches!"

JrZyHuStLa: "but look at the defense rating?"

Dolan: "Dude is a downer, remove him!"

Martin: "Bips post count defense rating is SSOL"

Bip: "what that mean?

UKDad: "he was like that as a kid too!"

JrZyHuStLa: "we need a new coach"

MDA: "Yeah yeah, what else is new." Im pulling in 4 mill a year, free clothing, MSG pays me a Mil for the show, and Im getting an extension"

JrZyHuStLa: "Your Defense score!"

MDA: "My Credit score your Mamma"!

Donnie: "Either light up or leave me alone"

Dolan: "most excellent! Steve Winwood and Traffic!"

OBM: "Dude check out my new knick bong"

Dolan: "Donnie, you got that medical weed with you?"

Donnie: "I can get it in SSOL!"

MDA, DONNIE, OBM, Bip, Martin, UKDad, JrZyHuStLa, Nalod, and Marv: "Haw Ha Ha Haw Ha Ha!!"

Dolan: "Clapp-Clapp....Clap clap clap"

MDA, DONNIE, OBM, Bip, Martin, UKDad, JrZyHuStLa, Nalod, and Marv: "Haw Ha Ha Haw Ha Ha!!"

The end!

hahahahahaah

How long it take you to think of that lol

Definitely a post of the year nominee Nalod.

As bad as some here want to paint Mike he got the WCF's twice without a real C. There was only one team better than his in the West those seasons. I guarantee that a lot of those teams were better on defense statistically. 62 times his plan worked out better than his opponents in his best regular season. Again he didn't even have the benefit of a great center to secure the boards. We might've gone into this playoffs with at least one 7'er if Dolan doesn't give up the farm. So i'm still waiting for Donnie to finish this roster and give this coach a title worthy roster. You have to start there before you can really bash any coach for not winning a title.

I don't think anyone would suggest we have a roster that is title ready.

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

if you think pace is an excuse you don't really understand its importance. it's an underlying fundamental to team efficiency stats, which are pretty much the best barometer for comparing teams.

Ok, ill be fair here. Because we push the pace a lot, we create more shot attempts for ourselves as well as the opponent. This is probably the biggest reason why we're in the top 5 in PPG and bottom 5 in OPP PPG.

But its the OPP FG% stats that get Dantoni in trouble. This stat doesn't excuse him as much, and does not get impacted by pace as much as the OPP PPG does.

Regardless of pace, this team let's its opponent shoot a higher percentage than the average team, and that accountability falls on the head coach.

Look, nobody said MDA is freaking Red Auerbach!

The man has a plan thats extreme. I wonder if he was able to integrate Shaq when they had what could have been there.

Your whole bone of contention is: "Knicks don't play good D statistically and statistically no great team has ever NOT done that and won big".

I get that. Nobody argues this. Its history, its logically and perhaps safe to attempt.

MDA says: "Phuch that, Im about point differential and Im going to build a motherphuching juggernaut that you will get sucked up in to and have to stop it and yourself to win!" Its fun to watch and will make its owner money.

Nalod says: "Do it, and do it well"

MDA says:"get me my greyhounds to run it and it will be epic"!

Donnie says: "Dude you were on hip check away from the sweep pulp of a perpetually full "Juice Card"! what can I get you".

MDA: "After the playoffs, we'll talk!"

Dolan: "Cha-Ching bitches!"

JrZyHuStLa: "but look at the defense rating?"

Dolan: "Dude is a downer, remove him!"

Martin: "Bips post count defense rating is SSOL"

Bip: "what that mean?

UKDad: "he was like that as a kid too!"

JrZyHuStLa: "we need a new coach"

MDA: "Yeah yeah, what else is new." Im pulling in 4 mill a year, free clothing, MSG pays me a Mil for the show, and Im getting an extension"

JrZyHuStLa: "Your Defense score!"

MDA: "My Credit score your Mamma"!

Donnie: "Either light up or leave me alone"

Dolan: "most excellent! Steve Winwood and Traffic!"

OBM: "Dude check out my new knick bong"

Dolan: "Donnie, you got that medical weed with you?"

Donnie: "I can get it in SSOL!"

MDA, DONNIE, OBM, Bip, Martin, UKDad, JrZyHuStLa, Nalod, and Marv: "Haw Ha Ha Haw Ha Ha!!"

Dolan: "Clapp-Clapp....Clap clap clap"

MDA, DONNIE, OBM, Bip, Martin, UKDad, JrZyHuStLa, Nalod, and Marv: "Haw Ha Ha Haw Ha Ha!!"

The end!

ROFL!!!!!!!!! dude, I look forward to your post .... for real.....

JrZyHuStLa wrote:hahahahahaah

How long it take you to think of that lol

SSOL!

TKF, MDA, DONNIE, OBM, Bip, Martin, UKDad, JrZyHuStLa, Nalod, and Marv: "Haw Ha Ha Haw Ha Ha!!"

Let's see how those 25% fare, if you think it's such a good thing. We'll see if those teams scored more points. That last expression is real dumb and its being paraded around like its a revelation.

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:12 of this year's 16 playoff teams all ranked in the top 15 in OPP FG%. I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

Actually it proves his point, that you can make the playoffs with lower defensive stats.

And it also proves that defense is a staple for 75% of the playoff caliber teams.

ANd for the other 25% its not!

And no team ever came back in the baseball playoffs 0-3 but it eventually happend.

Or an 11 seed makes it to the final 4.

And most likley no team with a low defensive rating ever made it to the finals.......

And most likely the knicks won't either.

But we are not contenders yet.

I'd say of the 16 teams in the playoffs maybe 6 are contending: SA, LA, OK, MIA, BOS, Chi. The rest we can thank for showing up. 66% of those teams won't make the finals. 16% will win. Thats it man.

One thing though, the winning team will have scored more points than the other and the margin don't really mean a thing at this point!!!

Martin: "Bips post count defense rating is SSOL" - EPIC!

nykshaknbake wrote:Let's see how those 25% fare, if you think it's such a good thing. We'll see if those teams scored more points. That last expression is real dumb and its being paraded around like its a revelation.

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:12 of this year's 16 playoff teams all ranked in the top 15 in OPP FG%. I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

Actually it proves his point, that you can make the playoffs with lower defensive stats.

And it also proves that defense is a staple for 75% of the playoff caliber teams.

ANd for the other 25% its not!

And no team ever came back in the baseball playoffs 0-3 but it eventually happend.

Or an 11 seed makes it to the final 4.

And most likley no team with a low defensive rating ever made it to the finals.......

And most likely the knicks won't either.

But we are not contenders yet.

I'd say of the 16 teams in the playoffs maybe 6 are contending: SA, LA, OK, MIA, BOS, Chi. The rest we can thank for showing up. 66% of those teams won't make the finals. 16% will win. Thats it man.

One thing though, the winning team will have scored more points than the other and the margin don't really mean a thing at this point!!!

NO you can't focus on that 25% to prove your point. That's called confirmation bias - where someone only looks at eveidence that proves their POV and ignores the rest of it. I think Nalod's point is there are plenty of defensive minded teams that don't win in the playoffs, so you need to fator that in.

We all get it that only teams with above aversage defense has won NBA titles in the past. That doesn't mean teams w/o it can never win one. All the data in the world indicated house prices can only ever go up (the probability of a crash was so low that it was laughable), that was before the crash happened.

But if you want to be safe and play it by the numbers yes, you want a good defensive team, that does NOT mean you will win anything. MDA is trying to coach a different style of play which people with longing for tradition cannot square themselves with. I think even he gets that.

this is MDA's first playoff series with the knicks. i remember watching his suns squads but in my opinion the guy has a blank slate with me and my opinion of him. let's see what kind of strategy the bockers have and what kind of adjustments he makes. i think this is a winnable series!!! go knicks and come on MDA prove your genius!

I disagree with the notion that because we have two offensive superstars we need an offensive coach. IMHO, that makes it all the more necessary to have a DEFENSIVE coach. That still allows the superstars to freestyle for their points and get their numbers, but those numbers become more meaningful and have a bigger impact, because at the other end the team is getting stops.

If Melo scores 31 and his man gets 29, it's not a huge advantage. If Amar'e gets 29 and 8 and his man gets 24 and 15, who has the advantage there?

This is why, though I am willing to give MDA a chance with this group, I think in the future this nucleus would be best served by bringing in a JVG type coach. Look at the Bulls with Thibodeau. Best defense in the league and they have an offensive superstar in DRose and a competent post scorer in Boozer. That formula won them 62 games. 62 freaking games. And this is only DRose's 3rd year. That team is going to be a juggernaut for the next 4-5 years.

We have the type of team that can beat Miami... but to get by a team like Chicago in a seven game series, we're going to need to be able to defend and rebound. And Mike doesn't build teams or play the guys who can do that.

Bring back JVG. (Doc Rivers or maybe Mark Jackson would work, too, but JVG would be my first choice by a mile.)

crzymdups wrote:I disagree with the notion that because we have two offensive superstars we need an offensive coach. IMHO, that makes it all the more necessary to have a DEFENSIVE coach. That still allows the superstars to freestyle for their points and get their numbers, but those numbers become more meaningful and have a bigger impact, because at the other end the team is getting stops.

If Melo scores 31 and his man gets 29, it's not a huge advantage. If Amar'e gets 29 and 8 and his man gets 24 and 15, who has the advantage there?

This is why, though I am willing to give MDA a chance with this group, I think in the future this nucleus would be best served by bringing in a JVG type coach. Look at the Bulls with Thibodeau. Best defense in the league and they have an offensive superstar in DRose and a competent post scorer in Boozer. That formula won them 62 games. 62 freaking games. And this is only DRose's 3rd year. That team is going to be a juggernaut for the next 4-5 years.

We have the type of team that can beat Miami... but to get by a team like Chicago in a seven game series, we're going to need to be able to defend and rebound. And Mike doesn't build teams or play the guys who can do that.

Bring back JVG. (Doc Rivers or maybe Mark Jackson would work, too, but JVG would be my first choice by a mile.)

What about the roster? Does that count or are you thinking ours stays static?

what confirmation bias? I was just responding to Nalod's post.

Anyway. if you want to see whether defense makes a difference you can absolutely look at bottom rung vs top rung and see how it shakes out. You'd have a tough time controling for confounders in any study on NBA teams, but if you extend the study far back enough the power of it will be strong. Nowhere did I say that all you need is good defense. The question would be do you need good defense to win a championship, not can defense only win.

He can play at the non-traditional thing all he wants-prefarbly with another team. I don't need an experiment on the most talented Knicks team in over a decade that has produced equivocable results at best and horrendous results at worst.

loweyecue wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Let's see how those 25% fare, if you think it's such a good thing. We'll see if those teams scored more points. That last expression is real dumb and its being paraded around like its a revelation.

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Nalod wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:12 of this year's 16 playoff teams all ranked in the top 15 in OPP FG%. I didn't even bother mentioning the OPP PPG stat, since I'll only get that lame "pace" excuse like always.

Actually it proves his point, that you can make the playoffs with lower defensive stats.

And it also proves that defense is a staple for 75% of the playoff caliber teams.

ANd for the other 25% its not!

And no team ever came back in the baseball playoffs 0-3 but it eventually happend.

Or an 11 seed makes it to the final 4.

And most likley no team with a low defensive rating ever made it to the finals.......

And most likely the knicks won't either.

But we are not contenders yet.

I'd say of the 16 teams in the playoffs maybe 6 are contending: SA, LA, OK, MIA, BOS, Chi. The rest we can thank for showing up. 66% of those teams won't make the finals. 16% will win. Thats it man.

One thing though, the winning team will have scored more points than the other and the margin don't really mean a thing at this point!!!

NO you can't focus on that 25% to prove your point. That's called confirmation bias - where someone only looks at eveidence that proves their POV and ignores the rest of it. I think Nalod's point is there are plenty of defensive minded teams that don't win in the playoffs, so you need to fator that in.

We all get it that only teams with above aversage defense has won NBA titles in the past. That doesn't mean teams w/o it can never win one. All the data in the world indicated house prices can only ever go up (the probability of a crash was so low that it was laughable), that was before the crash happened.

But if you want to be safe and play it by the numbers yes, you want a good defensive team, that does NOT mean you will win anything. MDA is trying to coach a different style of play which people with longing for tradition cannot square themselves with. I think even he gets that.

Amare-Melo was build for MDA to drive. Not for JVG to slow down and defend with.

Nalod wrote:Amare-Melo was build for MDA to drive. Not for JVG to slow down and defend with.

It has to be one or the other. If your defense improves your offense will suffer. Always. Teams looking to play defense obviously can't score when they have the ball.

Nalod wrote:Amare-Melo was build for MDA to drive. Not for JVG to slow down and defend with.

If they were built not to play defense then they aren't championship players.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

Nalod wrote:Amare-Melo was build for MDA to drive. Not for JVG to slow down and defend with.

If they were built not to play defense then they aren't championship players.

Neither STAT nor Melo are great defensively. Not every player can defend on an elite level. It doesn't mean that they can't defend or that we won't expect them to give 100% in an effort to get stops. The thing is tho both are top 5 scorers in the league. We can certainly go after a title with those 2. The key will be how much we're able to give them help to get that done.

We're gonna need both STAT and MELO to outscore and outrebound Pierce and KG. After that things will be fairly equal and we'll have a good chance to win the series.