Knicks · NBA Playoff games threads. (page 19)

nixluva wrote:

matt wrote:Hawks up by 11 with 2 minutes to go in the 4th. Did not see this coming

I did Bulls are overrated IMO.

I am not sure I would call them overrated but they did push the envelope quite nicely in the regular season. Still a young team that relies on Rose to score too much IMHO. Well coached defensively maybe they should force Thibs to hire an offensive assistant coach

Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

thibs' teams play D. mike's teams dont. thats the difference. what am i missing?

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

thibs' teams play D. mike's teams dont. thats the difference. what am i missing?

Mike's teams made the WCF's without any D!!! Let's see how far Thibs gets before we assume that it's automatically true that Thibs is a better coach. Mike won a coach of the year award too. Mike has won 60 games too. Unless Thibs makes the finals he hasn't done anything more than Mike has done. Saying that Thibs is all that cuz he coaches defense doesn't help your argument cuz so did Mike Brown! Where is he now?

I just realized how BIG Dallas got this year.

I just realized the finals are wide open if the Lakers lose........ we could be watching a Grizzles Hawks Finals!!!!!!LOL

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

thibs' teams play D. mike's teams dont. thats the difference. what am i missing?

Mike's teams made the WCF's without any D!!! Let's see how far Thibs gets before we assume that it's automatically true that Thibs is a better coach. Mike won a coach of the year award too. Mike has won 60 games too. Unless Thibs makes the finals he hasn't done anything more than Mike has done. Saying that Thibs is all that cuz he coaches defense doesn't help your argument cuz so did Mike Brown! Where is he now?

ummm, unless i'm missing something, the C's won the championship in 08 with thibs quarterbacking their D (actually coaching from the sideline and calling out positions, unlike the knicks coaches, who all sit silently) and lost in the finals in 7 games last year to the lakers. 2 finals trips and 1 championship for thibodeau. 1 conference finals trip for MDA.

name me one NBA champion in the last 20 years that has won it all without being ranked top 10 in Opp. FG%.

what nba do you watch where you don't need to play Defense?

"if you score more, you win." -- mda

how many times do you think the knicks did this:

my guess is 0.

also why couldn't D'Offensive Genius devise a way to get our offense going in the playoffs. game 1 when we had chauncey and amare we only scored 85 points.

when we got the supremely talented offensive minded melo D'Offensive Guru basically scrapped his system and went to iso's because carmelo and billup don't "fit" into his "system." wow what an offensive mastermind!

BigSm00th wrote:also why couldn't D'Offensive Genius devise a way to get our offense going in the playoffs. game 1 when we had chauncey and amare we only scored 85 points.

when we got the supremely talented offensive minded melo D'Offensive Guru basically scrapped his system and went to iso's because carmelo and billup don't "fit" into his "system." wow what an offensive mastermind!

Mike actually got to the WCF's TWICE! Now as for you giving Thibs credit for getting to the Finals with the C's, that's a bit of a stretch since he wasn't the HEAD coach but an assistant. The argument is about HEAD coach. So far as a HEAD coach Thibs hasn't done anything more than Mike yet. We'll see how far Thibs gets and it would be a somewhat fair analysis since he has Rose and Mike had Nash.

CB got hurt and it may have effected the final outcome. In any event our offense was never really clicking on all cylinders due to the lack of time needed to really get CB and the new guys acclimated to the system and different style of play. We shouldn't have had to rely on so much ISO. That's not the way we play. Next year it will be much better. You can't just throw guys into this system and expect them to get it all down in a short span of time. It's too complicated and nuanced. To master it you need time. Once you get it tho it enhances the strengths of good players and great players.

To me when they lock in the Heat has the best defense in the East. The Bulls D is good, but a really good offense can deal with it. The Heat D can be suffocating. The only teams I think that can deal with it are the big teams like LA, OKC, Memphis and Dallas. They have a size advantage on the Heat.

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:also why couldn't D'Offensive Genius devise a way to get our offense going in the playoffs. game 1 when we had chauncey and amare we only scored 85 points.

when we got the supremely talented offensive minded melo D'Offensive Guru basically scrapped his system and went to iso's because carmelo and billup don't "fit" into his "system." wow what an offensive mastermind!

Mike actually got to the WCF's TWICE! Now as for you giving Thibs credit for getting to the Finals with the C's, that's a bit of a stretch since he wasn't the HEAD coach but an assistant. The argument is about HEAD coach. So far as a HEAD coach Thibs hasn't done anything more than Mike yet. We'll see how far Thibs gets and it would be a somewhat fair analysis since he has Rose and Mike had Nash.

CB got hurt and it may have effected the final outcome. In any event our offense was never really clicking on all cylinders due to the lack of time needed to really get CB and the new guys acclimated to the system and different style of play. We shouldn't have had to rely on so much ISO. That's not the way we play. Next year it will be much better. You can't just throw guys into this system and expect them to get it all down in a short span of time. It's too complicated and nuanced. To master it you need time. Once you get it tho it enhances the strengths of good players and great players.

To me when they lock in the Heat has the best defense in the East. The Bulls D is good, but a really good offense can deal with it. The Heat D can be suffocating. The only teams I think that can deal with it are the big teams like LA, OKC, Memphis and Dallas. They have a size advantage on the Heat.

all of the celtics and doc rivers attribute their defense during their last 3 years to thibodeau's coaching. if you watched the C's games (not sure if you're watching since in your world offense wins championships) you would see thibodeau literally standing next to rivers or closer to the action and instructing the team.

that counts, especially when you win it all.

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:also why couldn't D'Offensive Genius devise a way to get our offense going in the playoffs. game 1 when we had chauncey and amare we only scored 85 points.

when we got the supremely talented offensive minded melo D'Offensive Guru basically scrapped his system and went to iso's because carmelo and billup don't "fit" into his "system." wow what an offensive mastermind!

Mike actually got to the WCF's TWICE! Now as for you giving Thibs credit for getting to the Finals with the C's, that's a bit of a stretch since he wasn't the HEAD coach but an assistant. The argument is about HEAD coach. So far as a HEAD coach Thibs hasn't done anything more than Mike yet. We'll see how far Thibs gets and it would be a somewhat fair analysis since he has Rose and Mike had Nash.

CB got hurt and it may have effected the final outcome. In any event our offense was never really clicking on all cylinders due to the lack of time needed to really get CB and the new guys acclimated to the system and different style of play. We shouldn't have had to rely on so much ISO. That's not the way we play. Next year it will be much better. You can't just throw guys into this system and expect them to get it all down in a short span of time. It's too complicated and nuanced. To master it you need time. Once you get it tho it enhances the strengths of good players and great players.

To me when they lock in the Heat has the best defense in the East. The Bulls D is good, but a really good offense can deal with it. The Heat D can be suffocating. The only teams I think that can deal with it are the big teams like LA, OKC, Memphis and Dallas. They have a size advantage on the Heat.

all of the celtics and doc rivers attribute their defense during their last 3 years to thibodeau's coaching. if you watched the C's games (not sure if you're watching since in your world offense wins championships) you would see thibodeau literally standing next to rivers or closer to the action and instructing the team.

that counts, especially when you win it all.

You misunderstand how I view BB. I'm a defensive player myself. I LOVE defense and I play a very aggressive style. I'm a very quick guy with quick hands and I get up into the guy I play. Just cuz I defend Mike as a coach doesn't mean I don't appreciate defense. I also believe that teams need to be balanced and too often people assume that if you have a great defense you will win the title. Sure the best teams in the league tend to have great D, but they usually also have very good offense too.

This team can defend and what will make it a much better defense is to have the rebounding and interior defense needed to finish a possession. Our biggest problem was a lack of rebounding. We allowed far too many 2nd chance points and not being able to secure the rebound was the key reason. Once we solidify the rebounding on this team you'll see a big difference in how the defense is perceived. Think about it, neither STAT, Turiaf nor Jared are strong rebounders. We must fix that problem.

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:also why couldn't D'Offensive Genius devise a way to get our offense going in the playoffs. game 1 when we had chauncey and amare we only scored 85 points.

when we got the supremely talented offensive minded melo D'Offensive Guru basically scrapped his system and went to iso's because carmelo and billup don't "fit" into his "system." wow what an offensive mastermind!

Mike actually got to the WCF's TWICE! Now as for you giving Thibs credit for getting to the Finals with the C's, that's a bit of a stretch since he wasn't the HEAD coach but an assistant. The argument is about HEAD coach. So far as a HEAD coach Thibs hasn't done anything more than Mike yet. We'll see how far Thibs gets and it would be a somewhat fair analysis since he has Rose and Mike had Nash.

CB got hurt and it may have effected the final outcome. In any event our offense was never really clicking on all cylinders due to the lack of time needed to really get CB and the new guys acclimated to the system and different style of play. We shouldn't have had to rely on so much ISO. That's not the way we play. Next year it will be much better. You can't just throw guys into this system and expect them to get it all down in a short span of time. It's too complicated and nuanced. To master it you need time. Once you get it tho it enhances the strengths of good players and great players.

To me when they lock in the Heat has the best defense in the East. The Bulls D is good, but a really good offense can deal with it. The Heat D can be suffocating. The only teams I think that can deal with it are the big teams like LA, OKC, Memphis and Dallas. They have a size advantage on the Heat.

all of the celtics and doc rivers attribute their defense during their last 3 years to thibodeau's coaching. if you watched the C's games (not sure if you're watching since in your world offense wins championships) you would see thibodeau literally standing next to rivers or closer to the action and instructing the team.

that counts, especially when you win it all.

All i know is when discussion of the greatest coaches come up and the rings are counted, Riley, Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach names come up and Tex Winters is never mentioned. If you want to talk about head coaches, talk about head coaches; that seems plain enough, otherwise you just opened up a whole world of assistant coach candidates that really don't seem to be worthwhile to mention.

And lets be honest, it's one thing to make it as a head coach, quite another to be an assistant - different roles different jobs.

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

thibs' teams play D. mike's teams dont. thats the difference. what am i missing?

Mike's teams made the WCF's without any D!!!

And Mike's teams didnt' win a championship(s) because a lack of defense.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

thibs' teams play D. mike's teams dont. thats the difference. what am i missing?

Mike's teams made the WCF's without any D!!!

And Mike's teams didnt' win a championship(s) because a lack of defense.

IMO they had some pretty good runs and to be honest it doesn't seem reasonable to expect some of the teams he had to be shutdown defensive teams without a 7'er that could shut down the middle. Who was the guy he had that could do that? Some would point to Shaq, but he wasn't the great Shaq people remember. He got killed by the PnR in the playoffs. Other than him he never had a team with championship size in the middle. Yet he got to the WCF's with Diaw and KT as his centers. Don't tell me he can't coach when you can get your team thru the tough West with no Center!!!!! Please stop making these posts that lack any explanation of the facts, but instead make blind statements that seem to support your point. The final outcome doesn't always explain what actually happened it's not always a B&W situation. Given the fact that his teams were the smallest it really was good defense to have gotten that far being that small.

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Mike Dantoni would make a good assistant to a real coach like Thibs.

SOOOOOO What makes Thibs any different from Mike in that he has Rose and Mike had Nash? I mean won't we have to see Thibs get it done without Rose in order to really prove if his team winning all those games was mostly about Rose verses what he does as a coach? Basically Thibs will also have his own MVP PG leading the way for his team.

thibs' teams play D. mike's teams dont. thats the difference. what am i missing?

Mike's teams made the WCF's without any D!!!

And Mike's teams didnt' win a championship(s) because a lack of defense.

IMO they had some pretty good runs and to be honest it doesn't seem reasonable to expect some of the teams he had to be shutdown defensive teams without a 7'er that could shut down the middle. Who was the guy he had that could do that? Some would point to Shaq, but he wasn't the great Shaq people remember. He got killed by the PnR in the playoffs. Other than him he never had a team with championship size in the middle. Yet he got to the WCF's with Diaw and KT as his centers. Don't tell me he can't coach when you can get your team thru the tough West with no Center!!!!! Please stop making these posts that lack any explanation of the facts, but instead make blind statements that seem to support your point. The final outcome doesn't always explain what actually happened it's not always a B&W situation. Given the fact that his teams were the smallest it really was good defense to have gotten that far being that small.

dude how do you reconcile the fact that MDA says he doesn't think defense is important and that if his offense is clicking they will win because "if you score more, you win."

i am more than willing to give MDA another year at coach to prove his chops. i think i'm being somewhat objective when i say that its alarming and disheartening that our coach literally professes to not care about defense and will set 40 minutes to D in practice only if they've lost 7 games in a row.

i think some MDA defenders are getting tunnel vision. yes, he's coached some good teams. that being said, nothing about his approach to the defensive part of the game or how he chooses who to play (the ones who can shoot, not the ones who can play D) has given me comfort or confidence that we will address any of these deficiencies next year.

you mentioned being a "defense first" player and that all it takes is players giving the effort. that is not all it takes in the NBA! it takes talking on defense, rotations, and knowing where you're supposed to be. as far as i can tell from watching the knicks both on TV and at MSG, there is very little communication on defense and often guys are left wide open, which indicates guys don't know where they're supposed to be rotating to. is that a lack of "defensive" effort or is that a lack of MDA preparing the players to defend the other team? i think it's the latter.

to just say that me and jersey hustla are being redundant is unfair and lends itself to criticism that you are the one that is in fact not seeing the big picture. i think there is PLENTY of writing on the wall -- google "mike d'antoni defense" and you get almost a million views -- not to mention the fact that he stubbornly refused to bring aboard a defensive assistant in phoenix led to his dismissal at his previous job.

are these as red flags? or am i just an irrational, crazed MDA hater?

"if you can hit the corner 3, it doesn't matter if you can't rotate on defense, ok?" -- mike d'antoni

Steve Nash Suns made the WCF not sure about...D'AnToni but if that's the case so did Gentry with many different parts....AND?

“All we do is play to our players' strengths.”

-Mike D'antoni.

This is exactly the type of BS that pisses me off with this bum coach. Play to your players strengths? Why don't you learn something and try turn a weakness into a strength so your players can mature into well rounded athletes instead of one dimensional shooters?

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:also why couldn't D'Offensive Genius devise a way to get our offense going in the playoffs. game 1 when we had chauncey and amare we only scored 85 points.

when we got the supremely talented offensive minded melo D'Offensive Guru basically scrapped his system and went to iso's because carmelo and billup don't "fit" into his "system." wow what an offensive mastermind!

Mike actually got to the WCF's TWICE! Now as for you giving Thibs credit for getting to the Finals with the C's, that's a bit of a stretch since he wasn't the HEAD coach but an assistant. The argument is about HEAD coach. So far as a HEAD coach Thibs hasn't done anything more than Mike yet. We'll see how far Thibs gets and it would be a somewhat fair analysis since he has Rose and Mike had Nash.

CB got hurt and it may have effected the final outcome. In any event our offense was never really clicking on all cylinders due to the lack of time needed to really get CB and the new guys acclimated to the system and different style of play. We shouldn't have had to rely on so much ISO. That's not the way we play. Next year it will be much better. You can't just throw guys into this system and expect them to get it all down in a short span of time. It's too complicated and nuanced. To master it you need time. Once you get it tho it enhances the strengths of good players and great players.

To me when they lock in the Heat has the best defense in the East. The Bulls D is good, but a really good offense can deal with it. The Heat D can be suffocating. The only teams I think that can deal with it are the big teams like LA, OKC, Memphis and Dallas. They have a size advantage on the Heat.

all of the celtics and doc rivers attribute their defense during their last 3 years to thibodeau's coaching. if you watched the C's games (not sure if you're watching since in your world offense wins championships) you would see thibodeau literally standing next to rivers or closer to the action and instructing the team.

that counts, especially when you win it all.

You misunderstand how I view BB. I'm a defensive player myself. I LOVE defense and I play a very aggressive style. I'm a very quick guy with quick hands and I get up into the guy I play. Just cuz I defend Mike as a coach doesn't mean I don't appreciate defense. I also believe that teams need to be balanced and too often people assume that if you have a great defense you will win the title. Sure the best teams in the league tend to have great D, but they usually also have very good offense too.

This team can defend and what will make it a much better defense is to have the rebounding and interior defense needed to finish a possession. Our biggest problem was a lack of rebounding. We allowed far too many 2nd chance points and not being able to secure the rebound was the key reason. Once we solidify the rebounding on this team you'll see a big difference in how the defense is perceived. Think about it, neither STAT, Turiaf nor Jared are strong rebounders. We must fix that problem.

I certainly remember a rather large number of nice defensive stands that ended with nothing but a chance to do this again. A couple times a game is expected but I seriously wonder what the percentages were. Melo is a good rebounder and helps out a lot there. Huge amount of room for improvement though and a decent center is a must to lower Stat's minutes and protect the investment we have in his talent.

*sigh* I fully expect to see JJ again next year. Hopefully for no more than 10 minutes a game.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:“All we do is play to our players' strengths.”

-Mike D'antoni.

This is exactly the type of BS that pisses me off with this bum coach. Play to your players strengths? Why don't you learn something and try turn a weakness into a strength so your players can mature into well rounded athletes instead of one dimensional shooters?

dude, we understand you dislike MDA, but the more you try to twist some sound logic into what you think can be held against someone, the more people will ignore you.

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:“All we do is play to our players' strengths.”

-Mike D'antoni.

This is exactly the type of BS that pisses me off with this bum coach. Play to your players strengths? Why don't you learn something and try turn a weakness into a strength so your players can mature into well rounded athletes instead of one dimensional shooters?

dude, we understand you dislike MDA, but the more you try to twist some sound logic into what you think can be held against someone, the more people will ignore you.

Martin, what logic did I twist? I quoted the man word for word.