Knicks · Stephen A. Smith Article: There is no defense for D'Antoni (page 2)

Again. It's a not a good trade regardless of what every ESPN analyst have to say. Every team has incredible depth that's making a run in the Playoffs.

We had Felton, Randloph, Gallo, Moz to add to Fields, Williams, Amare, Douglas that's eight pieces that are very strong. I'm not counting Chandler since he was a free agent, but you don't go all in for Carmelo. He was medicore in the Playoffs and we got swept. We have no wiggle room to get better. We have Billups and Balkman eating almost 16MM in cap dollars for next season.

We had the size and the potential backup to rest Amare and keep him fresh. The prudent move was to just switch the coach in the offseason, but moving Mike is going to make little difference.

Donnie did a great job with the aforementioned group of players above, but with the Melo trade we would have been better not trading away Zach and Crawford, keeping Lee, Gallo and our draft picks. The Knicks are the same team next year regardless of the coach.

MS wrote:Again. It's a not a good trade regardless of what every ESPN analyst have to say. Every team has incredible depth that's making a run in the Playoffs.

We had Felton, Randloph, Gallo, Moz to add to Fields, Williams, Amare, Douglas that's eight pieces that are very strong. I'm not counting Chandler since he was a free agent, but you don't go all in for Carmelo. He was medicore in the Playoffs and we got swept. We have no wiggle room to get better. We have Billups and Balkman eating almost 16MM in cap dollars for next season.

We had the size and the potential backup to rest Amare and keep him fresh. The prudent move was to just switch the coach in the offseason, but moving Mike is going to make little difference.

Donnie did a great job with the aforementioned group of players above, but with the Melo trade we would have been better not trading away Zach and Crawford, keeping Lee, Gallo and our draft picks. The Knicks are the same team next year regardless of the coach.

The guys we traded aren't irreplaceable man.

very fair and balanced take.

did you switch to de-caf??

Learned from Sheen that I can roll with a 4 gram rock instead of 7!

IM too pragmatic to be a full fan.

Might you have an opening on your schedule for a new patient today?

The players can be replaced, but the ability to build a team is now gone.

Let's just say that we kept the team we had and packaged Chandler in the offseason or just let him expire. We have the cap room to bring in a Deandre Jordan for 8MM a Shane Battier 5MM a Delonte West type for 2MM.

Felton/West or Ford
Fields/Douglas/Walker
Gallo/Battier or Hill or Williams
Amare/AR
Jordan/Moz/Turiaf

You keep a balanced team together of assets and if you have to make a move for a game changer like Paul or Howard you have the ability to do that. Maybe we don't get the guys we are targeting, but there are still other options on the table.

Remember Balkman is signed from 1.7MM and he doesn't play so tack that onto his salary. The cap drops and our ability to add our third game changer. Where does that leave us?

MS wrote:The players can be replaced, but the ability to build a team is now gone.

Let's just say that we kept the team we had and packaged Chandler in the offseason or just let him expire. We have the cap room to bring in a Deandre Jordan for 8MM a Shane Battier 5MM a Delonte West type for 2MM.

Felton/West or Ford
Fields/Douglas/Walker
Gallo/Battier or Hill or Williams
Amare/AR
Jordan/Moz/Turiaf

You keep a balanced team together of assets and if you have to make a move for a game changer like Paul or Howard you have the ability to do that. Maybe we don't get the guys we are targeting, but there are still other options on the table.

Remember Balkman is signed from 1.7MM and he doesn't play so tack that onto his salary. The cap drops and our ability to add our third game changer. Where does that leave us?

it leaves us built around a super star who's got 8 years in the league and has a long track record of poor playoff performances and no commitment to defense or team play. After 8 years and a 16-34 playoff record you are what you are. We just put every egg we had into this basket and we got Vince Carter part II. Hell... Vince was probably better.

Melo's a good player, just like Vince was in his heyday.

Everyone wanted a star we got one. Top 5 in jersey sales, all star games, cool commercials... Dolan got his guy!

The Knicks will have a very good business. They will sell out every game. Amare and Melo will sell jerseys. We will win 48-52 games a year. If we get a good draw in the first round we might advance, but thats not likely as we are not in the top 4 in our conference.

We are locked and loaded for the next 5 years. Enjoy the ride.

Vince Carter II? Ouch. I look forward to his in-game dunk over Turiaf though.

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Whatever..Stephen A. said he would have traded the whole team for melo..and if walsh didn't make the trade he was a complete moran..now when the team is anything but balance..he wants to scream fire the coach...mda needs to start making better in game adjustments for sure...but I have heard to many players gush over mdas system..including every last player on the Olympic squad.. the only player on the knicks that could have blurted those comments is a player who was glued to the bench..

I was going to post the same thing. Stephen A. Smith is a jackass. He said trade the whole team for Melo and now that we got swept he wants to blame the coach. Dude is stupid.

While I tend to agree with the conclusion, it is always tedious to sift though SCREAMIN A SMITH'S logic and figure out what his point is. His editor should be flogged by gammar Nazis for putting slop like that up

or his spelling Nazi

I don't understand you MS, if we keep the the non-game changes that we traded, some how every single little non-game changing role player move goes right for the knicks.......... and some how turns into some backwards math were 4 non game changers plus 3 more equals a better chance at DHoward or Chirs Paul being on the team????(or equals nothing but 8-9 non-changers on your team, but hey as long as with got dem yoots learning it's alrite:)

But when you actually get a player like Melo, who even a defensive team as the Boston Celtics had to double and triple team..........there is NO WAY a cast can ever be put together that could excel from having two great players like we have in Stat/Melo??? D west and Battier are just not good enough to help now, or they are unattainable just because the Yoots are gone???

These sour grapes from you guys at this point is epic. It's not even 1 year and ever thing is gone???

Again if you're the GM you have to look at your conference before you make moves.

The top teams are Miami, Boston, Bulls with secondary teams in ATL and ORL.

1. Orlando is going to lose to to the Hawks there GM went all in and made a mistake taking on big contract in Arenas and Turk. Dwight Howard will likely leave either for NJ or LA

2. ATL has capped itself out with the worst contract in the entire NBA in Joe Johnson and has too pay Crawford and Horford. They are going to have to move there best defensive player Josh Smith

3. The Bulls are locked in with a good sporting cast that relies on one player there team as is will be a top contender for years to come

4. The Heat are weak at two position Center and Point Guard and will not be able to address either if someone doesn't agree to take less money

5. Losing steam as there core is getting old. Next year they will likely begin to breakdown and fade

So waiting till the offseason was always the right move. Because had Melo stayed in Denver no big deal. If he forced his way to NJ he was about his money which we all already knew. They would have stole some headlines but unless they got Howard would have been a 7th seed till the end of time. The Knicks would have still been able to make moves and if they went into next season with the same team we still would been in a better position. Gallo is only getting better as is his trade value. You could have build it up along with AR and a couple of other guys had the ability to make moves down the road

It's real simple. We started the year without a real C and we ended the year without one. You have to have someone on the team that can hold down the middle and get the boards after a good defensive stand. We got killed on the boards giving teams chance after chance and that is the real reason the defense seemed so bad. Not to mention the Sleep walking that Amar'e does out there. How many times has STAT just let a player get to the basket and didn't move or sometimes even know the guy was scoring right behind him. His court awareness is like a 3 out of 10. Just cuz he blocks shots he thinks he's actually doing his job.

Think what a difference it would've made in this series to have a real 7'er that was a defensive force in the middle and on the boards?

Aside from that without a real PG there's no chance for this team to really operate at peak efficiency. STAT and Melo need a PG to reach their full potential. They aren't Lebron and Wade. CB isn't a perfect fit, but he was the only real PG we had. Losing him was pretty much the end of our playoff run. We have to find a younger guy that can actually break a defense down and get into the paint. Give Mike what jsut about any Coach needs to win a PG and C. Then we can talk about what kind of coach he really is, cuz i'd like to see how good a lot of coaches would be with no PG and no C. Oh and it wouldn't hurt to have a dependable SG too.

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:D'antoni couldn't win a championship with the most talented roster in the NBA with Nash, Stoudemire, Marion, Barbosa, Bell, etc.

All because he neglected defense.

This is BS Jrz...all series long I heard how ray, pp, and the rest of boston never ever was none for there defense til kg and rondo got there and set the tone...this team (we all witness) is capable of playing very good defense, but just like most super stars, they can't play it for 48mins every night..that's on the players...

Your leader sets the tone on D...I remember melo (during the 6 game win streak) really stepping up on d and picking up the intensity (the 2 weeks he got pow) then watching his teammates follow suit..MDA may not be a defense guru..but he has emphasize defense a lot more then in the past...

In your very own opinion, please tell us what you think is the responsibility of a head coach in the NBA.

If its entirely on the players, then why does the league employ 30 head coaches?

fishmike wrote:it leaves us built around a super star who's got 8 years in the league and has a long track record of poor playoff performances and no commitment to defense or team play. After 8 years and a 16-34 playoff record you are what you are. We just put every egg we had into this basket and we got Vince Carter part II. Hell... Vince was probably better.

Melo's a good player, just like Vince was in his heyday.

Everyone wanted a star we got one. Top 5 in jersey sales, all star games, cool commercials... Dolan got his guy!

The Knicks will have a very good business. They will sell out every game. Amare and Melo will sell jerseys. We will win 48-52 games a year. If we get a good draw in the first round we might advance, but thats not likely as we are not in the top 4 in our conference.

We are locked and loaded for the next 5 years. Enjoy the ride.

Damn, I knew you were forcing your faked enthusiasm about being "all in", but this stuff boarders on hater status.

I know other people have posted everything about Melo and why all your Vince carter, Agent Zero stuff is absurd. Yeah he hasn't been out of the first round often, but his playoff performances have been far from poor( to the non-jaded). I just want to know what you gain out of this???

The guy has been a 50th game winner for a couple of years now. No matter how much of a slob Nene was or how many games Kmart was out or If Jr smith or AI was a knuckle head, he's been able to carry teams over the season for his career. So what are you hoping for?? We get a top four seed and fail???

You remember that stretch of 30 point games were Amare seemingly made you believe the players we had were the end all be all. Or before Fields hit the rookie wall and was like a 12/8 guy. Or when TD has had his shot going and is pushing the pace, playing defense, getting steals and knocking down threes. The Complete role player Shawn Williams has become and the lights out shooter he was before the slight injuries. None of this is going to be better with Melo................ WAS THIS WHOLE DAMN SEASON CHANDLER GALLO AND THE POINT WE SIGNED IN THE OFFSEASON TO YOU BUMS!!!

You guys are borderline pathetic imo and the sad part is when we do excel at anything next year you get to front run.

Anji wrote:

fishmike wrote:it leaves us built around a super star who's got 8 years in the league and has a long track record of poor playoff performances and no commitment to defense or team play. After 8 years and a 16-34 playoff record you are what you are. We just put every egg we had into this basket and we got Vince Carter part II. Hell... Vince was probably better.

Melo's a good player, just like Vince was in his heyday.

Everyone wanted a star we got one. Top 5 in jersey sales, all star games, cool commercials... Dolan got his guy!

The Knicks will have a very good business. They will sell out every game. Amare and Melo will sell jerseys. We will win 48-52 games a year. If we get a good draw in the first round we might advance, but thats not likely as we are not in the top 4 in our conference.

We are locked and loaded for the next 5 years. Enjoy the ride.

Damn, I knew you were forcing your faked enthusiasm about being "all in", but this stuff boarders on hater status.

I know other people have posted everything about Melo and why all your Vince carter, Agent Zero stuff is absurd. Yeah he hasn't been out of the first round often, but his playoff performances have been far from poor( to the non-jaded). I just want to know what you gain out of this???

The guy has been a 50th game winner for a couple of years now. No matter how much of a slob Nene was or how many games Kmart was out or If Jr smith or AI was a knuckle head, he's been able to carry teams over the season for his career. So what are you hoping for?? We get a top four seed and fail???

You remember that stretch of 30 point games were Amare seemingly made you believe the players we had were the end all be all. Or before Fields hit the rookie wall and was like a 12/8 guy. Or when TD has had his shot going and is pushing the pace, playing defense, getting steals and knocking down threes. The Complete role player Shawn Williams has become and the lights out shooter he was before the slight injuries. None of this is going to be better with Melo................ WAS THIS WHOLE DAMN SEASON CHANDLER GALLO AND THE POINT WE SIGNED IN THE OFFSEASON TO YOU BUMS!!!

You guys are borderline pathetic imo and the sad part is when we do excel at anything next year you get to front run.

Fishmike is in raging. He has gone from "simmer" to "Boil".

MIke's not hating, he's just tipped to a dark place for now. one can see it coming.

And he lives in Jersey. He'll hava few cold beers on his patio, look at the birds and it will be good.

Anji wrote:

fishmike wrote:it leaves us built around a super star who's got 8 years in the league and has a long track record of poor playoff performances and no commitment to defense or team play. After 8 years and a 16-34 playoff record you are what you are. We just put every egg we had into this basket and we got Vince Carter part II. Hell... Vince was probably better.

Melo's a good player, just like Vince was in his heyday.

Everyone wanted a star we got one. Top 5 in jersey sales, all star games, cool commercials... Dolan got his guy!

The Knicks will have a very good business. They will sell out every game. Amare and Melo will sell jerseys. We will win 48-52 games a year. If we get a good draw in the first round we might advance, but thats not likely as we are not in the top 4 in our conference.

We are locked and loaded for the next 5 years. Enjoy the ride.

Damn, I knew you were forcing your faked enthusiasm about being "all in", but this stuff boarders on hater status.

I know other people have posted everything about Melo and why all your Vince carter, Agent Zero stuff is absurd. Yeah he hasn't been out of the first round often, but his playoff performances have been far from poor( to the non-jaded). I just want to know what you gain out of this???

The guy has been a 50th game winner for a couple of years now. No matter how much of a slob Nene was or how many games Kmart was out or If Jr smith or AI was a knuckle head, he's been able to carry teams over the season for his career. So what are you hoping for?? We get a top four seed and fail???

You remember that stretch of 30 point games were Amare seemingly made you believe the players we had were the end all be all. Or before Fields hit the rookie wall and was like a 12/8 guy. Or when TD has had his shot going and is pushing the pace, playing defense, getting steals and knocking down threes. The Complete role player Shawn Williams has become and the lights out shooter he was before the slight injuries. None of this is going to be better with Melo................ WAS THIS WHOLE DAMN SEASON CHANDLER GALLO AND THE POINT WE SIGNED IN THE OFFSEASON TO YOU BUMS!!!

You guys are borderline pathetic imo and the sad part is when we do excel at anything next year you get to front run.

I didnt fake anything.

Hate? I have no venom or emotion behind Melo or the Knicks. Sorry... I dont love a player because someone tells me I am supposed to. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

As for Amare's 30 point games... didnt they come after a losing streak? Didnt he show great leadership during that time? I was impressed by that and it got me excited about having Amare on the team, especially in his role as leading one of the NBA's youngest teams to the playoffs. A team that was looking at having max cap space while retaining most all of our assets this summer.

Why do you think comparing Melo to Vince, TMac or Arenas (pre-injury) is an insult? All those guys were top NBA players at some point.

tell me ONE thing that make Melo better than Vince Carter. Name ONE accomplishment. ONE.

You think I hate Melo? I dont. Never have. What I dont is blindly love him. Sorry. What I do is see him for what he is and what he has been.

Please explain why I'm supposed to be patient with a player who's been in the league 8 years and is paid $20mm. I dont blame him for our first round exit. The Celtics were better hands down. I'm sorry if I wasnt more excited and enamored with his wonderful game 2 after he simply didnt play hard in game one (maybe it was coaching????)

Next year? I would expect good things next year. I will watch. I cant help it... I'm a sucker.

But I just want you to know that your a better fan and a better person than me because you loved Melo unconditionally right from the start, where as I actually wanted to see something impressive before I rubbed one off to his basketball card.

Nalod wrote:Fishmike is in raging. He has gone from "simmer" to "Boil".

MIke's not hating, he's just tipped to a dark place for now. one can see it coming.

And he lives in Jersey. He'll hava few cold beers on his patio, look at the birds and it will be good.

someone who gets it.

dummies like this think I actually want the Knicks to lose, like I get some phucking crap satisfaction from being right about anything, ever. Idiotic.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Fishmike is in raging. He has gone from "simmer" to "Boil".

MIke's not hating, he's just tipped to a dark place for now. one can see it coming.

And he lives in Jersey. He'll hava few cold beers on his patio, look at the birds and it will be good.

someone who gets it.

dummies like this think I actually want the Knicks to lose, like I get some phucking crap satisfaction from being right about anything, ever. Idiotic.

We are the choosen ones Knick fans are! (in yoda voice)

Suffer we must!

I think if the Mayan calander does not do its thing by 2012 then 2013 is our year.

That will mark 40 years we wonder the desert.

Enough.

We have paid for our starphuching ways for too long.

Amare is our Moses! Free us!

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Fishmike is in raging. He has gone from "simmer" to "Boil".

MIke's not hating, he's just tipped to a dark place for now. one can see it coming.

And he lives in Jersey. He'll hava few cold beers on his patio, look at the birds and it will be good.

someone who gets it.

dummies like this think I actually want the Knicks to lose, like I get some phucking crap satisfaction from being right about anything, ever. Idiotic.

We are the choosen ones Knick fans are! (in yoda voice)

Suffer we must!

I think if the Mayan calander does not do its thing by 2012 then 2013 is our year.

That will mark 40 years we wonder the desert.

Enough.

We have paid for our starphuching ways for too long.

Amare is our Moses! Free us!

He sure as hell doesn't rebound like Moses.

So how did this thread go from trying to defend MDA to dumping on Melo and calling him Vince Carter again? Dont understand why guys feel a need to continously recant their hate for the trade and in every thread.

MS wrote:Again if you're the GM you have to look at your conference before you make moves.

The top teams are Miami, Boston, Bulls with secondary teams in ATL and ORL.

1. Orlando is going to lose to to the Hawks there GM went all in and made a mistake taking on big contract in Arenas and Turk. Dwight Howard will likely leave either for NJ or LA

2. ATL has capped itself out with the worst contract in the entire NBA in Joe Johnson and has too pay Crawford and Horford. They are going to have to move there best defensive player Josh Smith

3. The Bulls are locked in with a good sporting cast that relies on one player there team as is will be a top contender for years to come

4. The Heat are weak at two position Center and Point Guard and will not be able to address either if someone doesn't agree to take less money

5. Losing steam as there core is getting old. Next year they will likely begin to breakdown and fade

So waiting till the offseason was always the right move. Because had Melo stayed in Denver no big deal. If he forced his way to NJ he was about his money which we all already knew. They would have stole some headlines but unless they got Howard would have been a 7th seed till the end of time. The Knicks would have still been able to make moves and if they went into next season with the same team we still would been in a better position. Gallo is only getting better as is his trade value. You could have build it up along with AR and a couple of other guys had the ability to make moves down the road

this was my outlook on how to strategize before the trade. glad you posted it for me

i've said, since the completion of the deal, that i'm with it. and i am. i have no choice. nothing will change what happened. and i still think we can get equipped to compete. just like before, we need some luck. it's hard to accept, but more than anything else -- we need luck. people point to OKC doing it the right way. OKC got very lucky to jump 3 spots into the position to draft Durant who, luckily for OKC, was passed on by Portland. then they hit on Westbrook and Ibaka and now they are contenders. sure, there's smarts involved, but there's luck too.

here are a few lucky things we need to happen:

* fields needs to re-emerge with renewed confidence and improved skills
* jerome jordan needs to arrive next year and surprise everyone by being the big we've always needed
* we need an absolute steal at pick 17
* we need to take a flyer on a free agent who no one expects to do well and have it pay off (michael redd?)

luck, thus far, has not been on our side. it's bound to balance out, no? at least that's what i keep telling myself...

oh and by the way, Steven A. just doesn't impress me. everytime i hear him speak on a subject, he's all over the place. no logic. just bold stupidity for the most part. not saying he's stupid. in fact, it's probably quite the opposite. he knows how to stir the pot and get listeners / readers.

Uptown wrote:So how did this thread go from trying to defend MDA to dumping on Melo and calling him Vince Carter again? Dont understand why guys feel a need to continously recant their hate for the trade and in every thread.

Why won't anyone answer Fish's questioin about what is wrong with being compared to vince or Agent 0? Fish isn't comparing him to today's Vince and Agent 0 who are a shadow of there former selves.

He is comparing them to the original Vince. The Vince that put up
27.5pts 6 reb 5 assists
24.5pts 5 reb 4 assists

Or the Gilbert Arenas pre injury that put up
29.3 points and 6 assists
28.4 points and 6 assists

Nothing wrong with that comparison. What do they all have in common? Great numbers. Leader of their teams. Battled hard in the playoffs. Haven't accomplished squat. Hopefully Carmelo doesn't break down like they have, and can actually get it done here. Until then, he still has something to prove and needs to earn the love of the Fishmikes and Bips of the world.