Vmart wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:The ultimate overreaction thread.
Yeah it's not like we've gone ten consecutive years without winning a playoff game.
Donnie Left the Knicks in good enough shape that when the next guy that comes in will be able to build around Donnie's accomplishments. I thank Donnie for what he has given the Knicks a chance to be a great team. I wish Donnie was along for the ride, but that bed has been made now and the Knicks will continue as an entity even after Donnie. He left the Knicks in a better place than they were before, thanks again.
How exactly do you know this? Donnie was the first guy to get Dolan to back off for a while and that was only for a few years before he started meddling again.
You don't think the Knicks are in a better position than they were before? Don't you think that the next GM/President that comes in won't build around what Donnie left behind? You don't have to know the obvious.
What are you talking about? How would you know what the next GM will do? I just said Dolan and Isiah are basically the defacto GM's. Anyone else who is hired now is a puppet who will talk to the media (the media thing will go back to the Isiah days with cryptic quotes and rare interviews and comments that never insult the organization) and pretend like he has power. Anyone with half a brain knows the next guy here will have little say on basketball affairs. If they did, Walsh would still be here.
Childs2Dudley wrote:Vmart wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:The ultimate overreaction thread.
Yeah it's not like we've gone ten consecutive years without winning a playoff game.
Donnie Left the Knicks in good enough shape that when the next guy that comes in will be able to build around Donnie's accomplishments. I thank Donnie for what he has given the Knicks a chance to be a great team. I wish Donnie was along for the ride, but that bed has been made now and the Knicks will continue as an entity even after Donnie. He left the Knicks in a better place than they were before, thanks again.
How exactly do you know this? Donnie was the first guy to get Dolan to back off for a while and that was only for a few years before he started meddling again.
You don't think the Knicks are in a better position than they were before? Don't you think that the next GM/President that comes in won't build around what Donnie left behind? You don't have to know the obvious.
What are you talking about? How would you know what the next GM will do? I just said Dolan and Isiah are basically the defacto GM's. Anyone else who is hired now is a puppet who will talk to the media (the media thing will go back to the Isiah days with cryptic quotes and rare interviews and comments that never insult the organization) and pretend like he has power. Anyone with half a brain knows the next guy here will have little say on basketball affairs. If they did, Walsh would still be here.
If it is as according to you than why the uproar over Walsh leaving? Just a puppet leaving so the KNicks will continue in the right direction.
Vmart wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Vmart wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:The ultimate overreaction thread.
Yeah it's not like we've gone ten consecutive years without winning a playoff game.
Donnie Left the Knicks in good enough shape that when the next guy that comes in will be able to build around Donnie's accomplishments. I thank Donnie for what he has given the Knicks a chance to be a great team. I wish Donnie was along for the ride, but that bed has been made now and the Knicks will continue as an entity even after Donnie. He left the Knicks in a better place than they were before, thanks again.
How exactly do you know this? Donnie was the first guy to get Dolan to back off for a while and that was only for a few years before he started meddling again.
You don't think the Knicks are in a better position than they were before? Don't you think that the next GM/President that comes in won't build around what Donnie left behind? You don't have to know the obvious.
What are you talking about? How would you know what the next GM will do? I just said Dolan and Isiah are basically the defacto GM's. Anyone else who is hired now is a puppet who will talk to the media (the media thing will go back to the Isiah days with cryptic quotes and rare interviews and comments that never insult the organization) and pretend like he has power. Anyone with half a brain knows the next guy here will have little say on basketball affairs. If they did, Walsh would still be here.
If it is as according to you than why the uproar over Walsh leaving? Just a puppet leaving so the KNicks will continue in the right direction.
Not sure why you can't understand something very simple.
Donnie Walsh was hired here and promised full autonomy. He had that for a while. He was the first GM to ever have that here under Dolan. This past year he effectively lost all that after Dolan reneged on his promise and started interfering in team affairs.
Scott Layden and Isiah Thomas were puppet GM's, although Isiah had a personal friendship with Dolan so he had more leeway.
Dave Checketts was the last good executive we had who left because Dolan forced him out. Dolan also forced Sprewell, Camby, Marv Albert and Jeff Van Gundy out, among others.
Donnie got as far as he could under Dolan. Now we return to the dark ages under inferior GM's.
I think when a team has an owner who has the ability to be this disruptive, this dysfunctional and so unpredictable there is little hope for long term success while he is running things.
eViL wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Can the Knicks win with a Dolan-RUN team? No. Can they win with a Dolan-Owned team? Absolutely.
but how do you own a team without running it to some extent? has Dolan shown any indication that he would let his guys run the show with autonomy? he seems to be the meddling type. his willingness to spend money is a double-edged sword. in one way it's great because we need to spend that money to get better. in another way it's terrible because it justifies his insistence on having more involvement.
Prior to Walsh, I never thought too much of Dolan as the 'meddling type'. I think he gave Isiah plenty of space to operate, which unfortunately didn't turn out so well for us. (He did give Isiah the one year turn around deadline, but there was no real threat behind it). The Melo negotiations were the first time I really thought Dolan overstepped his bounds.
Donnie was a god send, but I think in Dolan's mind, Walsh wasn't 'his guy'. Stern pushed that hiring.
If Allan Houston (not saying he's ready) took over, I'm willing to bet he'd have Jimmy's blessing, and we may get that owner that just sits back and signs the checks. Fortunately, Houston had some time studying under Donnie. Whoever it is, needs to win Dolan over.
MaTT4281 wrote:eViL wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Can the Knicks win with a Dolan-RUN team? No. Can they win with a Dolan-Owned team? Absolutely.
but how do you own a team without running it to some extent? has Dolan shown any indication that he would let his guys run the show with autonomy? he seems to be the meddling type. his willingness to spend money is a double-edged sword. in one way it's great because we need to spend that money to get better. in another way it's terrible because it justifies his insistence on having more involvement.
Prior to Walsh, I never thought too much of Dolan as the 'meddling type'. I think he gave Isiah plenty of space to operate, which unfortunately didn't turn out so well for us. (He did give Isiah the one year turn around deadline, but there was no real threat behind it). The Melo negotiations were the first time I really thought Dolan overstepped his bounds.
Donnie was a god send, but I think in Dolan's mind, Walsh wasn't 'his guy'. Stern pushed that hiring.
If Allan Houston (not saying he's ready) took over, I'm willing to bet he'd have Jimmy's blessing, and we may get that owner that just sits back and signs the checks. Fortunately, Houston had some time studying under Donnie. Whoever it is, needs to win Dolan over.
Isiah didn't have a history of starphucking or impatience as a GM, but as soon as he came here he continued the starphucking of his predecessor. The next GM continued the starphucking (but with good enough players to at least get to .500). The one constant is Dolan and as much as people hate Isiah, the consistency of what's happened over the past ten years makes it more likely that Dolan has been the driving force.
Walsh may have actually convinced Dolan to be a little patient but it must have been with the promise that they would get as many profitable stars as possible immediately after the two rebuilding years. So in the past 12 months we see the Knicks offer max contracts to Amare, Joe Johnson, Carmelo (extension), and probably any other big name, aging, player.
No matter what Dolan does at GM, he likely won't be able to change the basic core of the team which is STAT and Melo. They occupy so much of the cap. It's kind of limiting and thus there's not too much that Dolan can do to mess things up at this point. No Picks to trade and very little cap space. Any new GM is gonna have to work smart with the small cap space left. I just hope Dolan is still willing to spend like he has, cuz we need to buy some picks.
Bonn1997 wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:eViL wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Can the Knicks win with a Dolan-RUN team? No. Can they win with a Dolan-Owned team? Absolutely.
but how do you own a team without running it to some extent? has Dolan shown any indication that he would let his guys run the show with autonomy? he seems to be the meddling type. his willingness to spend money is a double-edged sword. in one way it's great because we need to spend that money to get better. in another way it's terrible because it justifies his insistence on having more involvement.
Prior to Walsh, I never thought too much of Dolan as the 'meddling type'. I think he gave Isiah plenty of space to operate, which unfortunately didn't turn out so well for us. (He did give Isiah the one year turn around deadline, but there was no real threat behind it). The Melo negotiations were the first time I really thought Dolan overstepped his bounds.
Donnie was a god send, but I think in Dolan's mind, Walsh wasn't 'his guy'. Stern pushed that hiring.
If Allan Houston (not saying he's ready) took over, I'm willing to bet he'd have Jimmy's blessing, and we may get that owner that just sits back and signs the checks. Fortunately, Houston had some time studying under Donnie. Whoever it is, needs to win Dolan over.
Isiah didn't have a history of starphucking or impatience as a GM, but as soon as he came here he continued the starphucking of his predecessor. The next GM continued the starphucking (but with good enough players to at least get to .500). The one constant is Dolan and as much as people hate Isiah, the consistency of what's happened over the past ten years makes it more likely that Dolan has been the driving force.
Walsh may have actually convinced Dolan to be a little patient but it must have been with the promise that they would get as many profitable stars as possible immediately after the two rebuilding years. So in the past 12 months we see the Knicks offer max contracts to Amare, Joe Johnson, Carmelo (extension), and probably any other big name, aging, player.
Wait, the Layden teams of Howard Eisley/Shandon Anderson/Houston/Othella Harrington/KT were star phucked? I must have missed that. Overpaid maybe. Unless you're just referring to the McDyess trade.
I didn't follow Isiah's front office career before he got here. I'm just going by his NY era. Maybe Dolan urged him to complete the Marbury deal, who knows, but I have difficulty believing Marbury/Crawford/Curry/Francis/Randolph were all Dolan's doing.
Did we actually offer Joe Johnson the max? I thought those were just rumors in the paper, especially with LeBron withholding his "decision" for as long as he did.
eViL wrote:Cablevision bought the team in August 1994 after John Starks had his infamous game 7 performance.
Right after I left NYC. Well, I'm moving back so its time for Dolan to sell the team. As for winning it all with him as owner,at this point I'd be happy with them contending year in and year out. So few teams have actually won it all over the last few decades. Its important to me but so are the playoffs, and the Knicks not looking like a joke. Guess the joke is on us fans.. again.
To be honest, Dolan actually tried to retain Walsh if we believe what Walsh said about it. He didn't agree because he wasn't ready for another structured multi-year deal. Dolan is unpredictable, arrogant and maybe a little whacko. But the guy has been bleeding his money ever since 1994, that's gotta count for something right? He has areed to guarantee money for health risks like Curry and now Amare. He has done this knowingly and without obtrusion, so maybe he does want the team to win.
Not everyone has a likeable public persona like Cuban, that doesn't make him a bad person. People here are fed up with Dolan, but the fact is we don't know exactly how much influence he exerts and making judgements based on speculation and doom and gloom from the press is not a good look.
Having said that, I think we just lost the best GM we ever had.
Hey at least Donnie didn't leave the cupboard bare. We have 2 studs in their prime and I think we can make some serious headway if we get a break in the draft and make some smart FA signings. I didn't feel like this team was so far off that we would have no chance to win in the playoffs in the future. In the NBA it only takes a couple of good players to make a huge difference. I think we can match the Heat firepower and especially if we can make a good pick in this draft. If we can add a Fredette, M. Brooks, Selby or someone like that it can be a good boost to the firepower of the team and if we can add a C or two that could push us into the top tier. Dolan being an owner willing to spend is actually a plus in that regard.
loweyecue wrote:To be honest, Dolan actually tried to retain Walsh if we believe what Walsh said about it. He didn't agree because he wasn't ready for another structured multi-year deal. Dolan is unpredictable, arrogant and maybe a little whacko. But the guy has been bleeding his money ever since 1994, that's gotta count for something right? He has areed to guarantee money for health risks like Curry and now Amare. He has done this knowingly and without obtrusion, so maybe he does want the team to win. Not everyone has a likeable public persona like Cuban, that doesn't make him a bad person. People here are fed up with Dolan, but the fact is we don't know exactly how much influence he exerts and making judgements based on speculation and doom and gloom from the press is not a good look.
Having said that, I think we just lost the best GM we ever had.
Beck reported that Walsh was offered a contract that would be a 40% pay cut. I don't think that is how you treat a guy you want back.
No respected NBA GM will work for Dolan with the way Donnie was treated. That's the way Dolan wants it, anyway.
Childs2Dudley wrote:No respected NBA GM will work for Dolan with the way Donnie was treated. That's the way Dolan wants it, anyway.
I think Dolan will be GM himself.
And his driver will be teh head coach.
This will be really funny stuf.
ATrain wrote:crzymdups wrote:I agree that Dolan seriously destroys any chance the Knicks have to win a title. It's hard to justify remaining a fan of this team. Still, I can't seriously root for anyone else. 
+1
+1. I'm out!
MaTT4281 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:eViL wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Can the Knicks win with a Dolan-RUN team? No. Can they win with a Dolan-Owned team? Absolutely.
but how do you own a team without running it to some extent? has Dolan shown any indication that he would let his guys run the show with autonomy? he seems to be the meddling type. his willingness to spend money is a double-edged sword. in one way it's great because we need to spend that money to get better. in another way it's terrible because it justifies his insistence on having more involvement.
Prior to Walsh, I never thought too much of Dolan as the 'meddling type'. I think he gave Isiah plenty of space to operate, which unfortunately didn't turn out so well for us. (He did give Isiah the one year turn around deadline, but there was no real threat behind it). The Melo negotiations were the first time I really thought Dolan overstepped his bounds.
Donnie was a god send, but I think in Dolan's mind, Walsh wasn't 'his guy'. Stern pushed that hiring.
If Allan Houston (not saying he's ready) took over, I'm willing to bet he'd have Jimmy's blessing, and we may get that owner that just sits back and signs the checks. Fortunately, Houston had some time studying under Donnie. Whoever it is, needs to win Dolan over.
Isiah didn't have a history of starphucking or impatience as a GM, but as soon as he came here he continued the starphucking of his predecessor. The next GM continued the starphucking (but with good enough players to at least get to .500). The one constant is Dolan and as much as people hate Isiah, the consistency of what's happened over the past ten years makes it more likely that Dolan has been the driving force.
Walsh may have actually convinced Dolan to be a little patient but it must have been with the promise that they would get as many profitable stars as possible immediately after the two rebuilding years. So in the past 12 months we see the Knicks offer max contracts to Amare, Joe Johnson, Carmelo (extension), and probably any other big name, aging, player.
Wait, the Layden teams of Howard Eisley/Shandon Anderson/Houston/Othella Harrington/KT were star phucked? I must have missed that. Overpaid maybe. Unless you're just referring to the McDyess trade.
I didn't follow Isiah's front office career before he got here. I'm just going by his NY era. Maybe Dolan urged him to complete the Marbury deal, who knows, but I have difficulty believing Marbury/Crawford/Curry/Francis/Randolph were all Dolan's doing.
Did we actually offer Joe Johnson the max? I thought those were just rumors in the paper, especially with LeBron withholding his "decision" for as long as he did.
The McDyess trade was the only major move Layden did. With other players, he was overpaying for relatively big names at the time although you're right they weren't stars. The pressure to get players who can bring in immediate profits has always been by Dolan. Within the limited (and all bad) range of options that that gives you, Isiah, Layden, and Walsh may have picked the actual players.
Bonn1997 wrote:The McDyess trade was the only major move Layden did. With other players, he was overpaying for relatively big names at the time although you're right they weren't stars. The pressure to get players who can bring in immediate profits has always been by Dolan. Within the limited (and all bad) range of options that that gives you, Isiah, Layden, and Walsh may have picked the actual players.
There's always going to be pressure improve the team, but Donnie got Dolan to get on board with the 2 year clean up prior to 2010. We just need a competent GM with a plan.
It's going to be a long summer until we find a replacement.
Vmart wrote:The ultimate overreaction thread.
I say jump, quit or what ever this thread is about. The owner has little to do with if a team wins a title.
Anji wrote:Vmart wrote:The ultimate overreaction thread.
I say jump, quit or what ever this thread is about. The owner has little to do with if a team wins a title.
That's about as accurate as thinking Isiah Thomas is a good GM or Renaldo Balkman is a good basketball player.
I really hope you jump greektroll.
