Papabear Says
Donnie Welsh in he never won a championship. I agree that he cleaned up a mess here but he gave up a lot to get under the cap and allowed Mike D to do what he wanted to do. He never told D'Antoni to not play our kids. Anthony Randolph never had a chance here. Mike D don't play defense
I liked Donnie too but Papa is right- he wasn't perfect and we root for the KNICKS not Donnie Walsh, right?
Papabear speaks the truth. Thank you Mr. Walsh for your help in making the Knicks relevant.
I think the concern is not about Donnie winning championship but more of the team transformation which I think is still incomplete. The philosophy will change again as the team rebuild with the two new stars.
The Don commanded respect as a basketball mind around the league. He stopped the Knicks from being the punchlines of jokes. There was more class and less planted stories in the rags. I bet this will lead to even better discussions with with Lakers, Bulls, & Heat "fans" in the city.
I wasn't totally sold on Walsh getting the job initially. I thought he might have been hired because he fit what Stern wanted but also was a guy that knew and liked Isiah and might go along with Isiah having a continued role with the team. Aside from the D'Antoni hire, everything he has done has impressed me. I think one of the big things Walsh did was to shield his players and coaches from the owner. I think his presence will be missed immediately. I also think the respectability that he brought back to the franchise just by agreeing to run it will be sorely missed.
It can't be about winning a title or not. You can only realistically talk about building a team that plays for a title, which Donnie did do. I believe he has this team on the right track that it could become a title contender with the right moves. That's all you can really ask. No one can guarantee a Title. It's so hard to win a title that it can't be the only way you judge a GM. There are too many other factors, health, coaching, luck etc. Imagine Hakeem is just an inch too far and doesn't tip that Starks 3 and the Knicks win. It's often just a fraction of an inch that separates a team from a title. Donnie was a very good GM and he made smart and solid decisions. If Dolan doesn't bud in maybe things go a bit better, maybe not. Still I liked having Donnie at the helm. Now we've got even more questions.
Walsh did as much as anyone could have done given the assets, resources, and support he had to work with, IMO.
The Anthony trade (in its final form), which I did not support, was almost surely not his fault. His biggest mistake was drafting Hill, but lets face it- if the Knicks had lost a few more games they would have had the lower slot and their boy Curry. You only have so much control over certain things.
Sometimes you just get lucky (or unlucky). David Robinson gets hurt and the Spurs get to pick Duncan- who brings the franchise 4 titles. Do you give a GM credit for that? Oden turns out to be Sam Bowe part deuce, and not the new Bill Russell. Can you crucify a GM for that? Pistons take Darko, but still win a title- how do you evaluate that GM? Kobe and LBJ manipulate things to be on certain teams... do you give credit to the GM who benefits from their actions?
Walsh made the Knicks relevant, and had to stand by while Dolan gave up more than he had to for Anthony because he saw either a marketing coup, or Isiah was in his ear.
We will see where Dolan is coming from based on the guy he chooses to replace Donnie. He might choose Isiah, in which case the conspiracy theorists will be proven right... He could choose the best "player" available for the GM job, which would surprise us, but make us happy... or he could simply choose the man he knows he can control and manipulate, which would make none of us happy. Options 1 and 3 do not give me a good feeling, and for some reason, I can't see Dolan picking the second route, so I am more than a bit apprehensive about the team's future at this point in time.
I am also not as optimistic as some of you are about the roster a new GM will have to work with. To be honest, the so called "core" of this team- the two (not 4, 5, or 6 players) guys the Knicks will build their team around, are one dimensional scorers... and that is it. How many guys on our roster, beside Anthony and Amare, would you be surprised to see go in the next 2 years? For me the answer is 0, and this is one of the reasons I feel bad when I think about Walsh leaving in this way, because he did not deserve to see the roster he had built up shredded in a moment by a rich little owner to decided he had to have the final say in the Anthony deal. Donnie, ultimately, was never give the time and support to build the team he wanted, and I'll even concede that he may have a coach who did not appreciate some of the players Walsh brought in to help the team win.
This is not a good day for the franchise, no matter how some of you try to spin it.
Walsh is old man. He cannot win titles.
Not with junk like Knicks he gets 2 years back.
He had not to many years of live left to make this crap a chip contender.
His task was to make it relevant and he did it and even more.
Thank you Donny for great job. I know he cannot take it anymore and this was just a matter of time.
Dolan is not somebody who normal person can take for a long time.
Donnie did what he could. I think the STAT and Melo duo is a strong core. Yes they are somewhat one dimensional, but they are 2 of the best at what they do well. We need to find a way to add a PG and C to the mix so that we can put a good TEAM on the floor and not so much just a team of 2!!!
I want to take one of the PG's in this draft like a Selby, Brooks or Morris etc. We need an explosive guard that can break a team down and finish along with setup teammates. Find a couple of vet bigs to man the C spot, so we can defend and rebound at a higher level and see what this team does next year. Donnie isn't completely gone and i'm sure he'll give his guys like Houston, Warkentien and Grunwald the moves to make this summer. They probably already have a good idea of what he's been looking to do. This is more about the future after this summer.
Donnie did a great job the last few years. As good as anyone could do. Now that he used his skills and experience to put this team in place, it is time for someone with more energy and fire to take us the rest of the way to a title.
Good points & its true Donnie made some mistakes (e.g. T-Mac deal and draft picks / +trade)
but Say what you want when you really look at all the cast of characters from the putrid
owner J D_lan, to his lame scouting staff (failed drafts) before Donnie was hired, to Coach
Mike D'Antoni and his questionable staff, to the roster and to Donnie himself,
Walsh was the BEST one out of them all mentioned above. He gave the Knicks fans hope,
he worked 24x7, he freed up impossible $contract dough caps, he gave us a roster with
both Amare & Melo two stars.
Donnie was/is better than the owner
was better than the staff under D_lan,
& certainly better than the coach whose living a past reputation with sketchy results.
All in all NY fans will miss Walsh until a decent replacement is found while Knicks are
trying to remain a good upcoming team.
nyshakespeare wrote:The Don commanded respect as a basketball mind around the league. He stopped the Knicks from being the punchlines of jokes. There was more class and less planted stories in the rags. I bet this will lead to even better discussions with with Lakers, Bulls, & Heat "fans" in the city.
Actually the jokes were still present(see free agency GM in a wheel chair and see the trades and see the playoffs) although they didn't quite come at the same volume and quite honestly it had nothing really to do with Walsh but more so Lebron and Melo gate.
I don't have that answer Papabear. All I can say is that Donnie tenure was marked with professionalism. There weren't and signs of nepotism, inappropriate relationships with players or marketing directors or indications that certain players were allowed to have more input into management decisions that what was warranted. Donnie was a vanilla manager and that is what we needed at the time. Anyone who wants to argue that he is too old and isn't dynamic enough to take this team to the next level...well, I can't say you're entirely wrong. Maybe now is a good time for a change. It just would be nice too know that the organization has a solid plan in place to move forward. That's my biggest fear. Dolan must have known this is possibility, yet I still get the sense the organization is still probably scrambling to come up with a contingency plan. And by contingency plan, I don't mean Mark Warkentien.
I think we like Walsh because after seeing several years of bad GMs, it was nice to have a competent GM. That being said, Walsh made plenty of mistakes, and I certainly don't think he is the best GM we could possibly get.
One thing i questioned Donnie was the hiring of Mike Damphoney
. What made him think this guy was going to get the knicks team going??
I was surprised cause Donnie's a defensive mined guy and always pick coaches that stress defense and rebounding. I figured maybe he picked him as coach so he can bring back some sought of entertainment wesst offense style bball at the garden..
Walsh bought dignity and professionalism back to the front office at MSG.
His demands for full control from the owner might have been a bit over the top but thats what you need in the juvenile corp culture created by Dolan.
To have to put such sophomoric elements into a contract such as what the owner can and cannot do is a sign little Jimmy is still a clown.
GMs don't win chips, players do. There is too much gap between a GM's role and final execution on the floor. A GM can assemble the best possible team, and the two main players may develop chemistry issues leading to first round exits every year. To rate a GM by # of chips won, is a really poor assessment.
This business about Donnie dong the best with what he was given is a joke.
We had Jared Jerries who was overpaid and the useless Eddie Curry. Other than those 2 everyone was trade-able straight up.
Walsh chose to rebuild on the fly and FAILED. We could have done a traditional rebuild and tanked and got higher picks.
AnubisADL wrote:This business about Donnie dong the best with what he was given is a joke.We had Jared Jerries who was overpaid and the useless Eddie Curry. Other than those 2 everyone was trade-able straight up.
Walsh chose to rebuild on the fly and FAILED. We could have done a traditional rebuild and tanked and got higher picks.
How do you fail when you end up with proven top tier talent at the core of your team? It's not like STAT and Melo aren't one of the best duos in the league. They're right there at the top of the league with other great duos. We've got a 1st rd. draft pick to add to the mix and the Billups contract comes off at the end of the season. There are options to improve the team going forward if the team does better than expected this year then great. If not, they can strip away what didn't work. I think Walsh is doing a good job and for the most part his decisions have put this team in a good position. Could we have drafted players better than STAT and Melo in the last 2 drafts? Maybe, but it's not a sure thing. We know how good STAT and Melo are. They've both gone deep in the playoffs before. That's not a fail IMO.
A few bumps along the road but he did an excellent job. Granted, the 2008 knicks were fairly talented. Now we have the pieces to build a championship caliber team. We have a solid foundation. The 2008 team was a sure playoff team but probably would have lost in the 1st round.
