knickstorrents wrote:Imagine we get Vucevic, and then we get another pick and Shumpert falls to us? We'd have a very nice, big team.
Vucevic and a PG of some sort would be my ideal draft.
Sangfroid@ 6/11/2011 11:11 AM
martin wrote:
Ira wrote:Looking at Vucevic and Brook Lopez's stats, their a little different with each a little better in some areas. Vucevic averaged 17.1 points at 50.5% with 10.3 boards and 1.4 blocks in 35 minutes. Lopez averaged 19.3 points at 46.8% 8,2 boards and 2.1 blocks in 30 minutes.
So I'd say Lopez scored more, while Vucevic scored more efficiently. Lopez was the better help defender while Vucevic was the better rebounder.
Vucevic is good value at 17 - especially if you factor in the fact that he's a center. In some ways, he makes me think of a taller David Lee.
interesting comparison.
This one comes with a jump shot pre-packaged
nixluva@ 6/11/2011 12:08 PM
knickstorrents wrote:Imagine we get Vucevic, and then we get another pick and Shumpert falls to us? We'd have a very nice, big team.
This is my dream draft right now. It solves 2 of our biggest problems.
Paladin55@ 6/11/2011 2:00 PM
nixluva wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:Imagine we get Vucevic, and then we get another pick and Shumpert falls to us? We'd have a very nice, big team.
This is my dream draft right now. It solves 2 of our biggest problems.
It would be nice both of these players, but I would also be happy with Vucevic and R. Jackson or Jenkins.
I really hope we can buy a late #1 and a couple of 2s, especially since we now have a DL team to stock.
Not sure that Shumpert is going to be a PG at the NBA level from the little I have seen, but he has the size to be a SG, so even if he does not pan out at PG, he would have a place in the rotation.
Anybody actually know if there are teams interested in selling a late #1 pick? We talk about it all the time, but you have to have someone willing to make the deal because of this or that circumstance, of course.
Paladin55@ 6/11/2011 2:37 PM
Sangfroid wrote:
martin wrote:
Ira wrote:Looking at Vucevic and Brook Lopez's stats, their a little different with each a little better in some areas. Vucevic averaged 17.1 points at 50.5% with 10.3 boards and 1.4 blocks in 35 minutes. Lopez averaged 19.3 points at 46.8% 8,2 boards and 2.1 blocks in 30 minutes.
So I'd say Lopez scored more, while Vucevic scored more efficiently. Lopez was the better help defender while Vucevic was the better rebounder.
Vucevic is good value at 17 - especially if you factor in the fact that he's a center. In some ways, he makes me think of a taller David Lee.
interesting comparison.
This one comes with a jump shot pre-packaged
From what I can see, he is much more polished offensively than Lee was when he came up, and it is not only his jumper. He has legit length for a 5, advanced post-up skills, and he will only be 20 at the time of the draft.
He also had a dad who not only played professional ball, which adds points to his BB IQ IMO, but had a work ethic which allowed him to be on the court for over 20 years- a work ethic which was undoubtedly noticed by his son.
BRIGGS@ 6/13/2011 12:48 PM
martin wrote:BRIGGS, I like this kid.
1 question, cause I have never seen him play: What's the difference between this kid and Brook Lopez coming out of school?
I see Vucevic is a tad smaller but not by much. Less athletic too. Is there much difference in their respective games or talent (their games seem the same, perhaps not talent)? If not, why isn't Vucevic expected to go higher?
Lopez Height Height Weight Wingspan Standing Body No Step Max Bench Lane 3/4 Court Sprint w/o Shoes w/shoes Reach Fat Vert Vert Press Agility 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57
Lopez is much more of a pure 5 while I think Vucevic is a 4-5. I like that he can step out and hi that 14-18 footer yet also has the skills to go into the post and score--that shows tremendous versatility. He was a better rebounder than Brook--he has a toughness about him. I think the kid is just a good basketball player--and as the Celtics and Mavs have shown---you cant always look at vertical jumps etc...the game is basketball--size matters having a 7 foot kid with this skill who is all of 20 years old--who can help now--makes more sense than anyone I can think of for our team--Heck if I could lock it in--Id be willing to move up with cash to guarantee he becomes a Knick. I do not think 17 is too high I wonder if he will be there.
franco12@ 6/13/2011 1:17 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:BRIGGS, I like this kid.
1 question, cause I have never seen him play: What's the difference between this kid and Brook Lopez coming out of school?
I see Vucevic is a tad smaller but not by much. Less athletic too. Is there much difference in their respective games or talent (their games seem the same, perhaps not talent)? If not, why isn't Vucevic expected to go higher?
Lopez Height Height Weight Wingspan Standing Body No Step Max Bench Lane 3/4 Court Sprint w/o Shoes w/shoes Reach Fat Vert Vert Press Agility 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57
Lopez is much more of a pure 5 while I think Vucevic is a 4-5. I like that he can step out and hi that 14-18 footer yet also has the skills to go into the post and score--that shows tremendous versatility. He was a better rebounder than Brook--he has a toughness about him. I think the kid is just a good basketball player--and as the Celtics and Mavs have shown---you cant always look at vertical jumps etc...the game is basketball--size matters having a 7 foot kid with this skill who is all of 20 years old--who can help now--makes more sense than anyone I can think of for our team--Heck if I could lock it in--Id be willing to move up with cash to guarantee he becomes a Knick. I do not think 17 is too high I wonder if he will be there.
Briggs- I agree that he might be gone by 17 - and the chances are if he is there, we'll probably screw up and pick some SF/SG type!
martin@ 6/13/2011 1:42 PM
franco12 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:BRIGGS, I like this kid.
1 question, cause I have never seen him play: What's the difference between this kid and Brook Lopez coming out of school?
I see Vucevic is a tad smaller but not by much. Less athletic too. Is there much difference in their respective games or talent (their games seem the same, perhaps not talent)? If not, why isn't Vucevic expected to go higher?
Lopez Height Height Weight Wingspan Standing Body No Step Max Bench Lane 3/4 Court Sprint w/o Shoes w/shoes Reach Fat Vert Vert Press Agility 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57
Lopez is much more of a pure 5 while I think Vucevic is a 4-5. I like that he can step out and hi that 14-18 footer yet also has the skills to go into the post and score--that shows tremendous versatility. He was a better rebounder than Brook--he has a toughness about him. I think the kid is just a good basketball player--and as the Celtics and Mavs have shown---you cant always look at vertical jumps etc...the game is basketball--size matters having a 7 foot kid with this skill who is all of 20 years old--who can help now--makes more sense than anyone I can think of for our team--Heck if I could lock it in--Id be willing to move up with cash to guarantee he becomes a Knick. I do not think 17 is too high I wonder if he will be there.
Briggs- I agree that he might be gone by 17 - and the chances are if he is there, we'll probably screw up and pick some SF/SG type!
I was looking at the lastest from DraftExpress and putting in some of my own logic about need (mostly), and I think there is a good chance he is not taken before the Knicks at #17.
All things being equal, lets assume he is not a top 10 pick. This is what DraftExpress has from 10-16:
10 Bucks Marcus Morris PF 11 Warriors Bismack Biyombo PF/C 12 Jazz Chris Singleton SF 13 Suns Tristan Thompson PF 14 Rockets Klay Thompson SG/SF 15 Pacers Alec Burks SG 16 76ers Markieff Morris PF
10. I say that the Bucks go for a PF/SF type. Morris is perhaps a better fit than Vucevic and they drafted Sanders last year at like 15. They also have Gooden coming back. 11. Warriors have Lee. May want to find backup for Biedrins in more of a defensive mode. I would think they would want Biyombo over Vucevic (defense over offense). 12. Jazz got enough PF/C's for a while. 13. Suns. They have Gortot, Frye, Lopez. Carter leaving. They prob go SF/G. 14. Rockets: Jordan Hill, Scola, Patrick Patterson, maybe Yao, Thabeet. They go small, prob PG. 15. Hibberts, Hansborough. This is the team I would be worried about drafting Vucevic. Seems to fit well in that mix and with Foster and McRoberts (each of whom can leave, I think). 16. Maybe trading for Kaman, but if that deal does not go down, I can see Philly taking a look at this kid. Markieff Morris may be better fit. Brand, Brackins, Hawes, Speights.
AnubisADL@ 6/13/2011 1:52 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:BRIGGS, I like this kid.
1 question, cause I have never seen him play: What's the difference between this kid and Brook Lopez coming out of school?
I see Vucevic is a tad smaller but not by much. Less athletic too. Is there much difference in their respective games or talent (their games seem the same, perhaps not talent)? If not, why isn't Vucevic expected to go higher?
Lopez Height Height Weight Wingspan Standing Body No Step Max Bench Lane 3/4 Court Sprint w/o Shoes w/shoes Reach Fat Vert Vert Press Agility 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57
Lopez is much more of a pure 5 while I think Vucevic is a 4-5. I like that he can step out and hi that 14-18 footer yet also has the skills to go into the post and score--that shows tremendous versatility. He was a better rebounder than Brook--he has a toughness about him. I think the kid is just a good basketball player--and as the Celtics and Mavs have shown---you cant always look at vertical jumps etc...the game is basketball--size matters having a 7 foot kid with this skill who is all of 20 years old--who can help now--makes more sense than anyone I can think of for our team--Heck if I could lock it in--Id be willing to move up with cash to guarantee he becomes a Knick. I do not think 17 is too high I wonder if he will be there.
Briggs- I agree that he might be gone by 17 - and the chances are if he is there, we'll probably screw up and pick some SF/SG type!
I was looking at the lastest from DraftExpress and putting in some of my own logic about need (mostly), and I think there is a good chance he is not taken before the Knicks at #17.
All things being equal, lets assume he is not a top 10 pick. This is what DraftExpress has from 10-16:
10 Bucks Marcus Morris PF 11 Warriors Bismack Biyombo PF/C 12 Jazz Chris Singleton SF 13 Suns Tristan Thompson PF 14 Rockets Klay Thompson SG/SF 15 Pacers Alec Burks SG 16 76ers Markieff Morris PF
10. I say that the Bucks go for a PF/SF type. Morris is perhaps a better fit than Vucevic and they drafted Sanders last year at like 15. They also have Gooden coming back. 11. Warriors have Lee. May want to find backup for Biedrins in more of a defensive mode. I would think they would want Biyombo over Vucevic (defense over offense). 12. Jazz got enough PF/C's for a while. 13. Suns. They have Gortot, Frye, Lopez. Carter leaving. They prob go SF/G. 14. Rockets: Jordan Hill, Scola, Patrick Patterson, maybe Yao, Thabeet. They go small, prob PG. 15. Hibberts, Hansborough. This is the team I would be worried about drafting Vucevic. Seems to fit well in that mix and with Foster and McRoberts (each of whom can leave, I think). 16. Maybe trading for Kaman, but if that deal does not go down, I can see Philly taking a look at this kid. Markieff Morris may be better fit. Brand, Brackins, Hawes, Speights.
The Bucks are going to draft a guard. They have the worse shooting. Alec Burks isnt slipping pass them. The guy is too young and too smooth.
Draftexpress doesnt really take need into account with the prospects.
martin@ 6/13/2011 2:01 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Draftexpress doesnt really take need into account with the prospects.
no idea how they really do it, all I know is they are right like 80% of the time when all is said and done.
Markji@ 6/14/2011 9:43 AM
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Draftexpress doesnt really take need into account with the prospects.
no idea how they really do it, all I know is they are right like 80% of the time when all is said and done.
Martin, not doubting you on this. Just interested. When are they 80% correct? Is it their last mock draft before the draft. So far Draft Express has changed their Knicks pick 3 times. They now have us selecting Jordan Hamilton, a SF from Texas whom I don't see as being useful for us.
SupremeCommander@ 6/14/2011 9:57 AM
Markji wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Draftexpress doesnt really take need into account with the prospects.
no idea how they really do it, all I know is they are right like 80% of the time when all is said and done.
Martin, not doubting you on this. Just interested. When are they 80% correct? Is it their last mock draft before the draft. So far Draft Express has changed their Knicks pick 3 times. They now have us selecting Jordan Hamilton, a SF from Texas whom I don't see as being useful for us.
I personally prefer nbadraft.net. They go for who they think the best prosepcts are and it doesn't vary that much throughout the year. If they're wrong, they're wrong. What I find happens with draftexpress is that they change their picks when media hits, and if they have liked a guy thought othe year, and it doens't look like he'll get taken high, they'll stick him somewhere where it has been hard to get a read on who they'll draft
Paladin55@ 6/14/2011 10:15 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Markji wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Draftexpress doesnt really take need into account with the prospects.
no idea how they really do it, all I know is they are right like 80% of the time when all is said and done.
Martin, not doubting you on this. Just interested. When are they 80% correct? Is it their last mock draft before the draft. So far Draft Express has changed their Knicks pick 3 times. They now have us selecting Jordan Hamilton, a SF from Texas whom I don't see as being useful for us.
I personally prefer nbadraft.net. They go for who they think the best prosepcts are and it doesn't vary that much throughout the year. If they're wrong, they're wrong. What I find happens with draftexpress is that they change their picks when media hits, and if they have liked a guy thought othe year, and it doens't look like he'll get taken high, they'll stick him somewhere where it has been hard to get a read on who they'll draft
Is DX predicting, or just giving you their best assessment of where people may be going based on taking all sources into consideration. If the later, that would account for changes in their "picks."
There is an art to analyzing all the cryptic comments which come from teams after players work out for them while also taking into conderation the needs and tendencies of specific teams or GMs.
I like both DX and nbadraft.net, and check out both during the pre-draft period. I do like the nbadraft.net chart, which is their analysis of a players game, even though I do understand its subjectivity.
Best bet, as is usually the case, is to look at multiple sources.
BRIGGS@ 1/23/2015 9:50 PM
BRIGGS@ 1/23/2015 9:57 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:BRIGGS, I like this kid.
1 question, cause I have never seen him play: What's the difference between this kid and Brook Lopez coming out of school?
I see Vucevic is a tad smaller but not by much. Less athletic too. Is there much difference in their respective games or talent (their games seem the same, perhaps not talent)? If not, why isn't Vucevic expected to go higher?
Lopez Height Height Weight Wingspan Standing Body No Step Max Bench Lane 3/4 Court Sprint w/o Shoes w/shoes Reach Fat Vert Vert Press Agility 6' 11.25" 7' 0.5" 256 7' 5.5" 9' 5" 6.3 27.5 30.5 7 12.77 3.57
Lopez is much more of a pure 5 while I think Vucevic is a 4-5. I like that he can step out and hi that 14-18 footer yet also has the skills to go into the post and score--that shows tremendous versatility. He was a better rebounder than Brook--he has a toughness about him. I think the kid is just a good basketball player--and as the Celtics and Mavs have shown---you cant always look at vertical jumps etc...the game is basketball--size matters having a 7 foot kid with this skill who is all of 20 years old--who can help now--makes more sense than anyone I can think of for our team--Heck if I could lock it in--Id be willing to move up with cash to guarantee he becomes a Knick. I do not think 17 is too high I wonder if he will be there.
Bang
RonRon@ 1/24/2015 1:36 PM
You convinced 9/10 guys here and we all wished we were able to draft Vucevic Unfortunately, we always competed all those years that we had draft picks and loss out by 1 win
Had Vucevic stayed on board, I believe Walsh/Dantoni would have drafted him especially because they were 50/50 on drafting Iman, with the other 50% being Chris Singleton
