The 90's Knicks had a great run, but it's viewed the way it is because they didn't win a title. Getting to the finals three times in a decade is nothing to really scoff at, although in the NBA you tend to fall harder when that run's over and when that franchise player leaves.
As far as a championship goes, you basically need an elite big on surrounded by knock-down shooters and one guy who's the primary ball-handler on offense and a lot of effort on defense.
The Knicks core so far isn't that bad. We're missing that defensive anchor and a breakdown guard to soften up the defense. A very quick and versatile defender that can guard 1-3 is a must. We don't have a Bowen or young Artest. That player has to also have enough game to warrant getting playing time on a regular basis. That's why I like Shumpert. He has the physical tools and desire to defend 1-3 and he still has upside to be an good overall players as well. A guard like him and a real C would totally change our defense.
nixluva wrote:The Knicks core so far isn't that bad. We're missing that defensive anchor and a breakdown guard to soften up the defense. A very quick and versatile defender that can guard 1-3 is a must. We don't have a Bowen or young Artest. That player has to also have enough game to warrant getting playing time on a regular basis. That's why I like Shumpert. He has the physical tools and desire to defend 1-3 and he still has upside to be an good overall players as well. A guard like him and a real C would totally change our defense.
This is the DeShawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest role.... these types of guys are valuable but I'd argue we don't need to draft for this type of player.
A defensive center is the hardest thing in the league to get... I would prefer we try to draft this if one is available... hell amass 3 draft picks and try to get one 3 times. The problem is these types of players take years to develop and the Knicks don't really have a good track record of grooming talent.
knickstorrents wrote:nixluva wrote:The Knicks core so far isn't that bad. We're missing that defensive anchor and a breakdown guard to soften up the defense. A very quick and versatile defender that can guard 1-3 is a must. We don't have a Bowen or young Artest. That player has to also have enough game to warrant getting playing time on a regular basis. That's why I like Shumpert. He has the physical tools and desire to defend 1-3 and he still has upside to be an good overall players as well. A guard like him and a real C would totally change our defense.
This is the DeShawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest role.... these types of guys are valuable but I'd argue we don't need to draft for this type of player.
A defensive center is the hardest thing in the league to get... I would prefer we try to draft this if one is available... hell amass 3 draft picks and try to get one 3 times. The problem is these types of players take years to develop and the Knicks don't really have a good track record of grooming talent.
I'm not sure why you would say that. We've actually developed players here in NY. Not every player you pick up is gonna work out. I think Timo would've eventually worked out in NY. In this draft you're gonna find the Knicks can get a Big and a Guard that both have high defensive ability. I don't see the taking 3 bigs if they had 3 picks.
My dream draft is gonna be a PG, like Shumpert, Jenkins, Morris etc. and a big like Vucevic or Tyler.
New York's record of identifying talent is decent. They've drafted solid players with about half their picks going back to around 2003, but the thing they haven't done is been bad enough to hit that home run.
y2zipper wrote:New York's record of identifying talent is decent. They've drafted solid players with about half their picks going back to around 2003, but the thing they haven't done is been bad enough to hit that home run.
That's why it was so big to get STAT and Melo. No matter how anyone feels about how the trade went down, this team has a core of All Star talent that is in it's prime and we just need to add support around them to get to the elite level.
nixluva wrote:knickstorrents wrote:nixluva wrote:The Knicks core so far isn't that bad. We're missing that defensive anchor and a breakdown guard to soften up the defense. A very quick and versatile defender that can guard 1-3 is a must. We don't have a Bowen or young Artest. That player has to also have enough game to warrant getting playing time on a regular basis. That's why I like Shumpert. He has the physical tools and desire to defend 1-3 and he still has upside to be an good overall players as well. A guard like him and a real C would totally change our defense.
This is the DeShawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest role.... these types of guys are valuable but I'd argue we don't need to draft for this type of player.
A defensive center is the hardest thing in the league to get... I would prefer we try to draft this if one is available... hell amass 3 draft picks and try to get one 3 times. The problem is these types of players take years to develop and the Knicks don't really have a good track record of grooming talent.
I'm not sure why you would say that. We've actually developed players here in NY. Not every player you pick up is gonna work out. I think Timo would've eventually worked out in NY. In this draft you're gonna find the Knicks can get a Big and a Guard that both have high defensive ability. I don't see the taking 3 bigs if they had 3 picks.My dream draft is gonna be a PG, like Shumpert, Jenkins, Morris etc. and a big like Vucevic or Tyler.
I think the thing with any good organization is stability and continuity. From there you can establish scouting and development.
Isiah years set NY back more than just his term - just look at what Jefferies and Curry essentially cost the Knicks: draft picks and possibly the chance at signing to big names outright (with the ability to keep Gallo, Chandler, Moz, AR).
The Dleague team is a BIG step in the right direction, but this ship ain't getting back to full throttle for another 2+ years IMHO.
martin wrote:nixluva wrote:knickstorrents wrote:nixluva wrote:The Knicks core so far isn't that bad. We're missing that defensive anchor and a breakdown guard to soften up the defense. A very quick and versatile defender that can guard 1-3 is a must. We don't have a Bowen or young Artest. That player has to also have enough game to warrant getting playing time on a regular basis. That's why I like Shumpert. He has the physical tools and desire to defend 1-3 and he still has upside to be an good overall players as well. A guard like him and a real C would totally change our defense.
This is the DeShawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest role.... these types of guys are valuable but I'd argue we don't need to draft for this type of player.
A defensive center is the hardest thing in the league to get... I would prefer we try to draft this if one is available... hell amass 3 draft picks and try to get one 3 times. The problem is these types of players take years to develop and the Knicks don't really have a good track record of grooming talent.
I'm not sure why you would say that. We've actually developed players here in NY. Not every player you pick up is gonna work out. I think Timo would've eventually worked out in NY. In this draft you're gonna find the Knicks can get a Big and a Guard that both have high defensive ability. I don't see the taking 3 bigs if they had 3 picks.My dream draft is gonna be a PG, like Shumpert, Jenkins, Morris etc. and a big like Vucevic or Tyler.
I think the thing with any good organization is stability and continuity. From there you can establish scouting and development.
Isiah years set NY back more than just his term - just look at what Jefferies and Curry essentially cost the Knicks: draft picks and possibly the chance at signing to big names outright (with the ability to keep Gallo, Chandler, Moz, AR).
The Dleague team is a BIG step in the right direction, but this ship ain't getting back to full throttle for another 2+ years IMHO.
I think everyone is going to be pleasantly surprised next year when we win 50+ games. We may not be a contender by the start of next season, but we're not 2 years away. The GM just has to be smart. Substitue a solid to great PG for when Billups is gone plus a shooter and a big who are strong defenders and we'll be set. I don't think we're as far away as people make it seem.
The thing that can most compromise the next 2 years is how D'Antoni does this year and how the players respond to him.
MSG3 wrote:martin wrote:nixluva wrote:knickstorrents wrote:nixluva wrote:The Knicks core so far isn't that bad. We're missing that defensive anchor and a breakdown guard to soften up the defense. A very quick and versatile defender that can guard 1-3 is a must. We don't have a Bowen or young Artest. That player has to also have enough game to warrant getting playing time on a regular basis. That's why I like Shumpert. He has the physical tools and desire to defend 1-3 and he still has upside to be an good overall players as well. A guard like him and a real C would totally change our defense.
This is the DeShawn Stevenson, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest role.... these types of guys are valuable but I'd argue we don't need to draft for this type of player.
A defensive center is the hardest thing in the league to get... I would prefer we try to draft this if one is available... hell amass 3 draft picks and try to get one 3 times. The problem is these types of players take years to develop and the Knicks don't really have a good track record of grooming talent.
I'm not sure why you would say that. We've actually developed players here in NY. Not every player you pick up is gonna work out. I think Timo would've eventually worked out in NY. In this draft you're gonna find the Knicks can get a Big and a Guard that both have high defensive ability. I don't see the taking 3 bigs if they had 3 picks.My dream draft is gonna be a PG, like Shumpert, Jenkins, Morris etc. and a big like Vucevic or Tyler.
I think the thing with any good organization is stability and continuity. From there you can establish scouting and development.
Isiah years set NY back more than just his term - just look at what Jefferies and Curry essentially cost the Knicks: draft picks and possibly the chance at signing to big names outright (with the ability to keep Gallo, Chandler, Moz, AR).
The Dleague team is a BIG step in the right direction, but this ship ain't getting back to full throttle for another 2+ years IMHO.
I think everyone is going to be pleasantly surprised next year when we win 50+ games. We may not be a contender by the start of next season, but we're not 2 years away. The GM just has to be smart. Substitue a solid to great PG for when Billups is gone plus a shooter and a big who are strong defenders and we'll be set. I don't think we're as far away as people make it seem.
The thing that can most compromise the next 2 years is how D'Antoni does this year and how the players respond to him.
Knicks can def win 50 games next year, but they will most likely get bounced in second round if not first.
I guess my "full throttle" remark was getting to ECF in the least, and that will take more than 2 years.
I Duno man. Let's say standings next year are:
Miami
Chicago
New York
Boston
Orlando
Atlanta
Philly
Miluakee/Indiana
Knicks, assuming they finish top 4, would most likely play Miami or Chicago in the second round. I don't know that if the Knicks are playing well and really cultivate an identity that they can't beat those teams in 7 games. Miami is going to come back focussed and they'll be incredibly tough again, but no other team in the East worries me as much as them.
I'm convinced Chicago outplayed what their record should have been. And I think father time does BOS in starting next season.
1 or 2 seasons max until ECF I think.
MSG3 wrote:I Duno man. Let's say standings next year are:
Miami
Chicago
New York
Boston
Orlando
Atlanta
Philly
Miluakee/IndianaKnicks, assuming they finish top 4, would most likely play Miami or Chicago in the second round. I don't know that if the Knicks are playing well and really cultivate an identity that they can't beat those teams in 7 games. Miami is going to come back focussed and they'll be incredibly tough again, but no other team in the East worries me as much as them.
I'm convinced Chicago outplayed what their record should have been. And I think father time does BOS in starting next season.
1 or 2 seasons max until ECF I think.
Boston and Orlando below NY? Tough call. NY got a lot to prove. 2 years ago Orlando had 59 wins, and Boston 50 without a lot of KG.
martin wrote:crzymdups wrote:martin wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:I think the main thing the Knicks can learn from the Mavs is a) the addition of Tyson Chandler changed that team completely. and b) the way they handled the Kidd situation - they added miles to an aging PG by having a capable backup in Barrea who could not only relieve Kidd for long long stretches, but can also play beside him and take playmaking responsibilities off his plate. Barrea was also a complete change of pace from Kidd, which seemed to be hard for teams to adjust to.That's why I'd target getting a big in the draft like Vucevic or Tyler and also a playmaking guard who can relieve Chauncey and also play next to him - like Darius Morris, Charlie Jenkins, Iman Shumpert, Josh Selby. Something like that.
And that's not just from looking at the Mavs - a point guard to run the offense and a defensive big were clearly the most glaring holes in the lineup against Boston.
The thing is, they left themselves in a position to have a franchise player AND add all the necessary role players. We have few draft picks, little cap space, and maybe half of an 8 man rotation.
the Mavs have been over the cap for the past 8 years or more. i wonder how they were able to build a team, despite being consistently over the cap?
they had 8 years to finally do it. And a massive amount of luck picking up Tyson Chandler.
they were in the finals in 2006, had the best record in the league in 2007 and have been pretty competitive every year for the last 8 or 9 years. i wouldn't mind having the decade they just had.
like the 90s?
Dallas also had a regular season MVP and a Finals MVP and a championship over that span. But, hey, if the Amar'e and Melo ride takes this team on a ride like the early 90s Knicks did - I will not complain.
The Knicks are gonna be one of the elite eastern teams next year. In the regular season I don't see a lot of teams being able to handle the Knicks. It's not gonna be like last year when we started the year with Gallo and Chandler playing "Tag. You're it" from game to game as to who would have a good game. CB and Melo are far more consistently good players than the guys we gave up. That's gonna put pressure on teams to matchup from game to game. Especially if we improve the roster in the areas we've been talking about.
The Heat, Magic and Celtics don't want to see the Knicks with an improved roster over last year. They had enough trouble dealing with the Knicks when they were out of synch and missing pieces.
nixluva wrote:The Knicks are gonna be one of the elite eastern teams next year. In the regular season I don't see a lot of teams being able to handle the Knicks. It's not gonna be like last year when we started the year with Gallo and Chandler playing "Tag. You're it" from game to game as to who would have a good game. CB and Melo are far more consistently good players than the guys we gave up. That's gonna put pressure on teams to matchup from game to game. Especially if we improve the roster in the areas we've been talking about.The Heat, Magic and Celtics don't want to see the Knicks with an improved roster over last year. They had enough trouble dealing with the Knicks when they were out of synch and missing pieces.
holy optimism. what are you smoking? 
