http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBAAll reports coming out say that Stern came out of the meeting in a bad mood and didn't say much besides that he hopes to meet again next week.
Woj says expect to hear an announcement about the first 2 weeks of training camp canceled in the next few days.
So yeah, it really is "looking like a season". How u?
GEEZ! This is just ridiculous!!! It just figures that as soon as we have the makings of a serious playoff team this happens. I wonder what the sticking point is now.
nixluva wrote:GEEZ! This is just ridiculous!!! It just figures that as soon as we have the makings of a serious playoff team this happens. I wonder what the sticking point is now.
apparently the players said they want to reduce their revenue % from 57 to 54 while the owners want it lowwered way below 50 %. those pricks.
Probably miss all of the pre-season and start training camp mid-Oct. and season on time or almost on time. Players need the money to live more than the owners need the revenue so the players will cave before the owners.
What I see though is the possibility of a lot of resentment developing from the players towards the owners and that could create a lot of hate and middle fingers being raised. The owners don't need to destroy the players. They can but in the interest of some harmony going forward, they shouldn't.
The sad part is the NBA just finished one of the best playoffs in the past 10 years. The league has a lot of momentum that could be destroyed with an extended lockout. I do believe the players are not budging on a hardcap and are willing to sit out the entire season to make that point. If the owners do not back off that demand, there will be no NBA games this season.
TheGame wrote:The sad part is the NBA just finished one of the best playoffs in the past 10 years. The league has a lot of momentum that could be destroyed with an extended lockout. I do believe the players are not budging on a hardcap and are willing to sit out the entire season to make that point. If the owners do not back off that demand, there will be no NBA games this season.
The owners have enough money to sit out a season. Most players need the income. They can't go an entire year without a paycheck. Some more may go to Europe or China but the players are in a much weaker position than the owners.
That said, the owners are businessmen and love to make money and be successful. I believe they want the season to start and are relying on the players' union to give in to most of their demands.
I'm siding with the players in this dispute, but the hard facts are that what they don't accept now, they'll end up having to accept later, on top of all the salary they'll end up losing during the lockout. The owners aren't being reasonable and they're complete hypocrites, but they're in a stronger position- I hate seeing workers getting beaten like this.
In a fair resolution, the players revenue would be lowered (but should still be over 50%), and the current system kept roughly as it is, but redo the luxury tax/ revenue, maybe get rid of restricted free agency (for the players) in return for a reduction in contract length- 4 years for normal contracts, 3 years mid level- that's still reasonable security for players, keeps them on their toes and the 3 yr mid level would stop teams getting into the kind of mess we got into.
I really hope we don't lose a season- unlike the NHL, the NBA requires a higher degree of athleticism and skill, and there are very few cases where an nba player hadn't played for a year and came back as good as they were before- the league would really suffer for it. And I'm sorry, but why should nba teams be guaranteed a profit?! If they're badly managed, choose badly in the draft year after year then they desreve to make a loss. These small market teams make out they are at a disadvantage- rubbish! They might not be able to pay/attract FA, but to balance that they end up getting better draft picks after doing badly- if they pick wisely (like the Thunder), they end up with great players on low salaries and then attract FA's further down the line. If they pick badly, they end up being like the TWolves or the Clippers- but thats because they drafted badly!
Owning an NBA is a vanity statement/ hobby- it's not a business- how many of these owners would still be in charge if they ran any other business as badly as they do their teams?
What if the owners invest back into the buisness in the form expanding the infrastructure by which revenue is increased.
This creates a better product, more fan interest and in the long run increased revenue, which is then shared.
Players need to look at it longer term.
I doubt players really are that interested in losing a season.
The big money guys got theirs. BIllups wants his 14mil pay day. He will never sniff that kind of money again.
The players will crack because thats how it is. Some need the money, some are at the back end of contracts that took them years to get established. They want to be paid.
I know most of you are in favor of the players and I really am more neutral on all of this but there is more than just a perspective of "the owners are rich anyway, its a hobby and they really don't care"........Thats not how it works. These guys have partners and they expect a return on investment for the money they put up, or the money they borrowed (its how it works fellas!) they need to service that debt.
THis is about GROWTH OF REVENUE. I suspect they will go a declining % so the guys now get theirs and future years they get a smaller % of what is hopefully a bigger piece.
Both sides get the best deal they can.
Lets put it this way, if Salary is like 57% of outflow then the owners are only OUT at LEAST 43%. Many have sweet lease deals on the buildings so paying rent is no big deal. MSG owns their own arena! Owners lose TV revenue, ticket sales and vending sales but are not laying out many other operating expenses. PLAYERS LOSE 100% and it ain't coming back!
Nets could im sure care less if they play this season. They are going to lose money. Might even do better not playing.
Relax, its gonna take a while. I hope Im wrong.
Good point Nalod about some owners not really wanting this season to happen, such as the Nets. They are waiting for their new arena in Brooklyn to be built. While The Knicks, Lakers, Chicago, etc want the season to begin and these owners might be more flexible in giving more to the players. This is probably part of the divide amongst the owners that we hear about.
I do side more with the players, probably 75% players vs. 25% to the owners. Mostly, I'd like to see the season start on time. DOn't really care about the pre-season.
The players have been preparing fot this. If I were in the NBA, I would be calling for the players to start their own league. I know it isradical but radical is what the players need. The owners are not going to budge so f-- them.
It's going to be real funny (or sad) when the players end up agreeing to the same deal they're against now after missing an entire season.
Nalod wrote:What if the owners invest back into the buisness in the form expanding the infrastructure by which revenue is increased.This creates a better product, more fan interest and in the long run increased revenue, which is then shared.
Players need to look at it longer term.
I doubt players really are that interested in losing a season.
The big money guys got theirs. BIllups wants his 14mil pay day. He will never sniff that kind of money again.
The players will crack because thats how it is. Some need the money, some are at the back end of contracts that took them years to get established. They want to be paid.
I know most of you are in favor of the players and I really am more neutral on all of this but there is more than just a perspective of "the owners are rich anyway, its a hobby and they really don't care"........Thats not how it works. These guys have partners and they expect a return on investment for the money they put up, or the money they borrowed (its how it works fellas!) they need to service that debt.
THis is about GROWTH OF REVENUE. I suspect they will go a declining % so the guys now get theirs and future years they get a smaller % of what is hopefully a bigger piece.
Both sides get the best deal they can.
Lets put it this way, if Salary is like 57% of outflow then the owners are only OUT at LEAST 43%. Many have sweet lease deals on the buildings so paying rent is no big deal. MSG owns their own arena! Owners lose TV revenue, ticket sales and vending sales but are not laying out many other operating expenses. PLAYERS LOSE 100% and it ain't coming back!
Nets could im sure care less if they play this season. They are going to lose money. Might even do better not playing.
Relax, its gonna take a while. I hope Im wrong.
If the Nets don't play this season they lose Deron Williams and they gave up a lot to get him. They have a lot to lose in my opinion. I think what is making these negotiations so tough is Stern has always been able to exert his will on players and coaches. When he has drawn a line in the sand it hasn't been crossed. He is a pretty shrewd guy and my guess is Silver is as well. However, he may have underestimated the players resolve and even the iq of the guys involved in the negotiations. The owners will eventually win this dispute but there maybe a season lost. Abbreviated seasons like 98 are not good even though the Knicks made it to the finals. Funky things happen. Injuries, chemistry, etc. All of those things take a hit when you try to make as many games as possible in a short period of time. I am not quite sure where I stand personally in regards to players/owners. There are some awful contracts in the nba that teams are locked into. However, Stern has frustrated me a lot in the past with his all consuming power (i.e. his fining and threatening of JVG whose character I would never question). Larry Coon nailed it again with this article. He calls for the owners to ultimately win but as always his analysis is extremely thorough and worth reading.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/lock...
Crush, good link and a good read. Old owners who are not financed like the new guys that pay big bucks cuz it keeps the franchise value higher.
Guys like Jerry Buss with the lakers actually runs the team to make money and has succeeded at every level. He can do it because he is not leveraged on the purchase.
Im glad someone finally writes about the financing issue. I get the players point that they should not shoulder the burden of the cost of finance but the reality is it exists. Maybe the compromise is to cap what can count. Its super important that teams be able to reinvest back in which could increase revenue and the players could enjoy an expanded stream from that.
I suppose the more I read about it the more ambivalent I am. I try to see both sides and its pretty clear there is no bona fide right or wrong.
The league owners will help the high leveraged teams get thru.
CrushAlot wrote:
If the Nets don't play this season they lose Deron Williams and they gave up a lot to get him. They have a lot to lose in my opinion. I think what is making these negotiations so tough is Stern has always been able to exert his will on players and coaches. When he has drawn a line in the sand it hasn't been crossed. He is a pretty shrewd guy and my guess is Silver is as well. However, he may have underestimated the players resolve and even the iq of the guys involved in the negotiations. The owners will eventually win this dispute but there maybe a season lost. Abbreviated seasons like 98 are not good even though the Knicks made it to the finals. Funky things happen. Injuries, chemistry, etc. All of those things take a hit when you try to make as many games as possible in a short period of time. I am not quite sure where I stand personally in regards to players/owners. There are some awful contracts in the nba that teams are locked into. However, Stern has frustrated me a lot in the past with his all consuming power (i.e. his fining and threatening of JVG whose character I would never question). Larry Coon nailed it again with this article. He calls for the owners to ultimately win but as always his analysis is extremely thorough and worth reading.http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/lock...
Great article. Really lays out the financial issues. The owners aren't going to bend too much so they can save the teams that were financed and now are in trouble. Once again the Big guys make mistakes, too much debt, and we, the common people, suffer. Larry Coon sums it up:
Through it all, NBA fans will continue to be the ones caught in the middle. And like a child caught in a divorce, they could care less about who's right or who wins.They just want mommy and daddy to stop fighting.
Childs2Dudley wrote:It's going to be real funny (or sad) when the players end up agreeing to the same deal they're against now after missing an entire season.
I just don't see this happening, the union had prepared these guys since the start of the 09 season, why would they cave in?
The way i see it, the onewrs will get the higher BRI (especially in the earlier years) and the players will get the no hard cap..
I'm confident a deal will get hammered out.
The player will accept a lesser percentage to keep guaranteed contracts.
Hey, what about a season of SCABS??? Why doesn't the league and the owners just start holding open tryouts, like they did in Denver years ago?
Would you still root for your team if the roster was full of undrafteds, unknowns and over the hills?
The ScabNBA!!! Where at least something happens!
AnubisADL wrote:I'm confident a deal will get hammered out. The player will accept a lesser percentage to keep guaranteed contracts.
I'm on the owners side on this. I like the idea of guaranteed contracts but jerome James, Eddie Curry and some others like Alan Houston should come to mind when discussing Guaranteed contracts.
During Thursday's negotiations, the league offered players a 46 percent share of basketball-related revenue, 11 percent less than they received in the last deal and 7 percent less than the last proposal by players, a league source told ESPN The Magazine's Bucher.In negotiations, the players' union had offered to reduce its percentage to as much as 54 percent, with the stipulation that a mechanism would be instituted to reward the players if future revenue increased, the source said.
The owners agreed to try to come up with a mechanism to solve their issues without adding a hard salary cap before the next meeting, according to the source. The owners, who have claimed they lost $300 million last season, have been seeking a hard cap -- a condition the players have been unwilling to accept.
