Knicks · Elephant in the room: Landry has fallen apart post Melo trade (page 1)

went to the game last night to see the team in person. what a great atmosphere, it is awesome to have that energy back at the garden.

one thing that needs to be addressed by the coaches is landry fields. there is no debating that the guy's effectiveness waned after the carmelo trade:

pre melo trade: 10 pts, 7 rebounds, 52% FG, 40% 3pt
post melo trade: 9 pts, 5 rebounds, 45% FG, 38% 3pt

and who can forget the completely abysmal performance from fields in the playoffs, where he averaged 2 pts, 1 rebound, shot 20% from the field and did not hit a 3 pointer.

look at those numbers -- he was a less-efficient shooter, his rebounding went down, and he completely and unequivocally fell apart in the playoffs.

what can we attribute this to? my thought is that fields put a lot of pressure on himself after the knicks traded every young guy not named landry or toney, and completely lost his confidence in the playoffs. i am not sure what the reason is, and i'm not sure it really matters, because we have MUCH better options right now to start at the 2.

i have seen enough from shumpert to think we should go with this guy right away as the starting 2. he can handle the ball, he has the athleticism and fluidity to guard good perimeter scorers, he's a far better athlete than fields, and most importantly, he's playing with a lot of confidence.

when baron is healthy and starting, i would think you start baron (and shumpert at the 2), and then you can bring douglas in to play either back court spot (like he did last year with chauncey). bibby is in the same boat. fields becomes more of a 2/3, and i think balkman and even devin green looked more productive last night.

i don't think we should give up on fields completely, but to keep starting him just because he did well over the first half of the season last year is silly -- he dropped off markedly after the carmelo trade, and he completely fell apart (and has yet to recover) in the playoffs. on top of that, there is a very legitimate option at starting 2 in iman shumpert.

bench landry. someone had to say it.

He's a 2nd round pick with the skill set of a 7th man. There's nothing wrong with getting that out of a 2nd round pick but it was fool's gold to think he was going to keep up the numbers from his fast start. There's definitely a role for him on a good team but it's not as the starting shooting guard. I'm highly critical of Carmelo but I'd view this as just a coincidence.

Bonn1997 wrote:He's a 2nd round pick with the skill set of a 7th man. There's nothing wrong with getting that out of a 2nd round pick but it was fool's gold to think he was going to keep up the numbers from his fast start. I'm highly critical of Carmelo but I'd view this as just a coincidence.

agree. i don't think there's a reason to stick with him; he played great with a small-ball team of STAT and then guys like wil chandler, felton, and gallo. now, the team is a lot different, and his backup (shumpert) is better than him.

I think it would do Landry good to earn his way back into the starting line up. It would take the pressure off

Landry wasn't that good to begin with. He was getting by on hustle. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place here. I think he'd be a great SF off the bench for us.

AnubisADL wrote:Landry wasn't that good to begin with. He was getting by on hustle. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place here. I think he'd be a great SF off the bench for us.

Agreed, although right now Balkman looks like the best forward off the bench.

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Landry wasn't that good to begin with. He was getting by on hustle. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place here. I think he'd be a great SF off the bench for us.

Agreed, although right now Balkman looks like the best forward off the bench.

Good point Bonn maybe that is what keeps Fields in the starting lineup for now with hopes of finding his role

Ive been tough on Fields calling him overrated by many here, and I stick to my early observations but I have to disagree with this thread.

First off the guy didnt forget how to shoot. That will improve and he will get in a rhythm again. He's a good player. He played PF in school and has a high IQ and knows the game. I think his slow first step holds him back from ever being a high caliber starting 2 in the league but that doesnt mean he wont find a role here and be a part of winning basketball.

I never saw him as a high level starting SG as some did, but he will be a good rotation player in this league for many years IMO.

Just because he's not as good as Shand Battier doesnt mean he's not going to be a good role player.

I would relax and let the coaches figure out where he will fit and flourish

fishmike wrote:Ive been tough on Fields calling him overrated by many here, and I stick to my early observations but I have to disagree with this thread.

First off the guy didnt forget how to shoot. That will improve and he will get in a rhythm again. He's a good player. He played PF in school and has a high IQ and knows the game. I think his slow first step holds him back from ever being a high caliber starting 2 in the league but that doesnt mean he wont find a role here and be a part of winning basketball.

I never saw him as a high level starting SG as some did, but he will be a good rotation player in this league for many years IMO.

Just because he's not as good as Shand Battier doesnt mean he's not going to be a good role player.

I would relax and let the coaches figure out where he will fit and flourish

perhaps you misread, my point is that given his decline in production as a shooting guard, we shouldn't start him at shooting guard.

i agree, i think he can be a contributing rotation player. but i think he should be removed from the starting 5; shumpert gives us a lot more skills as a starter and as a shooting guard.

also, i do think there is something up with his confidence/psyche. i don't think he "forgot how to shoot" but you can't refute the #'s -- pre trade he was a 40% shooter from 3 and a 52% shooter from the field; afterwards he was a 45% shooter from the field and 38% from 3, and he DID forget how to shoot in the playoffs he didn't hit 1 3pointer in the whole series!

This is becoming increasingly true. Landry looks lost on offense at times, he doesn't have the agility or quick first step to create his own shot. He is not a clear starter to me.

Bottom line is he's a small fwd....he's not a shooting guard. He should not be trying to handle. He's more comfortable catching/slashing/posting and rebounding....

I agree that he should be benched for Shump and Douglas and bibby need to back up baron and shump eventually.

Landry will be better backing up the Melo and Amare. But with Balkman and Jorts playing well and Novak coming....I see Landry as trade bait

EnySpree wrote:Bottom line is he's a small fwd....he's not a shooting guard. He should not be trying to handle. He's more comfortable catching/slashing/posting and rebounding....

I agree that he should be benched for Shump and Douglas and bibby need to back up baron and shump eventually.

Landry will be better backing up the Melo and Amare. But with Balkman and Jorts playing well and Novak coming....I see Landry as trade bait

"trade bait"

it's always hard to see a homebred Knick player leave us.
The thing I do like about Landry is he makes smart basketball decisions, and rarely commits stupid fouls, isn't prone to many turnovers, and always hustles.

At least on the positive side, it would appear that our bench isn't stretched entirely too thin.

Someone pointed out that it's similar to Channing Frye's second season in NY. The game is still the same, but it seems like the confidence is gone and the guy is pressing.

I think he'll be fine again, but I do also think Shump might be a better fit with the starting unit, especially once Baron is fully up and running. Though Baron could also help Landry regain his game - it'd be nice to have an actual PG again.

I saw a couple of good things from Landry last night...He bulked up a touch over the summer...There were three times where he drove hard to the hole...He wasn't as aggressive last year...Two drives didn't fall last night but his effort was there...I think he needs time...He just needs some confidence knocking down the open jumper...If he continues to go hard to the hole that may be another dimension to his game that can help us...It's still preseason in my eyes...Give him some time...

holfresh wrote:I saw a couple of good things from Landry last night...He bulked up a touch over the summer...There were three times where he drove hard to the hole...He wasn't as aggressive last year...Two drives didn't fall last night but his effort was there...I think he needs time...He just needs some confidence knocking down the open jumper...If he continues to go hard to the hole that may be another dimension to his game that can help us...It's still preseason in my eyes...Give him some time...

Great observation. There is nothing wrong with Landry Fields that a double double game cannot fix.

Fix the lead guard and you fix the Knicks.

Seems to me Fields used to get a lot of his production off lob passes on the back door cuts and putbacks. With Melo being such a rebounder at SF they may not want him to clog up the paint and so he is being kept on the outside more deliberately.

For all the stats that are thrown up though seems like Stat has fallen off as much or more since Melo arrived.

Olbrannon wrote:Seems to me Fields used to get a lot of his production off lob passes on the back door cuts and putbacks. With Melo being such a rebounder at SF they may not want him to clog up the paint and so he is being kept on the outside more deliberately.

For all the stats that are thrown up though seems like Stat has fallen off as much or more since Melo arrived.

olbrannon - you have watched enough hoops to know the roles on this pickup squad will not be determined until February, at the earliest. We are in the midst of an audition... an extended tryout for the rotation that will last for most of Janauary.

Stoudemire and Anthony, for all their superficial comeraderie, are struggling to get comfortable on the court at the same time and it shows. The offense has little rhythm and less sync. Fortunately, most NBA teams not named the Thunder, Mavs, Clippers or Grizzlies will struggle with chemistry and depth issues.

Unfortunately, for our beloved Knicks is that we are a roster of strangers. It is not simply Landry Fields issue, it is a team-wide challenge.

As Tommy Dee cited:

"In the first quarter with 6:20 to go of last night’s game there was a play in which the Knicks failed to close out a possession and it led to a foul on Tyson Chandler who hammered Brook Lopez sending him to the foul line.

I watched the replay and saw that Amar’e Stoudemire went to close out on a kick out jumper then “ran out” which is to say he wanted to get out in transition so when the team rebounded (see Chandler) he’d get ball out in transition. Except they hadn’t secured the ball and the result was a foul on Chandler.

Chandler’s reaction?

“WE HAVE TO REBOUND Y’ALL!” Sent in the direction of Stat, who shook his head in agreement.

The pre season will last for another six weeks.

SO y'all think the kid is just cowering down in the face of melo?

Fields was a great piece of the forumula in the recipe we call SSOL.......

when the Professor MDA gets the team going the kids production SHOULD return.

Think about? The ball moved in pre MeloDrama era. The ball is not moving yet.

SOme players in the right system are a higher value. Felton thrived in SSOL. Nash thrieved in SSOL, Mozgov went from obscure uknown to a legit rotation player in the best league in the world! Took Extra E and revived his career.

crzymdups wrote:Someone pointed out that it's similar to Channing Frye's second season in NY. The game is still the same, but it seems like the confidence is gone and the guy is pressing.

I think he'll be fine again, but I do also think Shump might be a better fit with the starting unit, especially once Baron is fully up and running. Though Baron could also help Landry regain his game - it'd be nice to have an actual PG again.

Frye is not a good example if you want to argue that Landry will be fine!

misterearl wrote:

holfresh wrote:I saw a couple of good things from Landry last night...He bulked up a touch over the summer...There were three times where he drove hard to the hole...He wasn't as aggressive last year...Two drives didn't fall last night but his effort was there...I think he needs time...He just needs some confidence knocking down the open jumper...If he continues to go hard to the hole that may be another dimension to his game that can help us...It's still preseason in my eyes...Give him some time...

Great observation. There is nothing wrong with Landry Fields that a double double game cannot fix.

Fix the lead guard and you fix the Knicks.

People think Melo was the difference in Fields game, but it was the change in PG. Put him next to a healthy Davis, or Nash, or back with Felton and you a see a more natural Fields. That being said, he probably isn't a long-term starter, he is probably best as a 6th or 7th man backing up the SG/SF. Shumpert will eventually fill that role and Fields will find his role as a top reserve on our contending team, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Someone pointed out that it's similar to Channing Frye's second season in NY. The game is still the same, but it seems like the confidence is gone and the guy is pressing.

I think he'll be fine again, but I do also think Shump might be a better fit with the starting unit, especially once Baron is fully up and running. Though Baron could also help Landry regain his game - it'd be nice to have an actual PG again.

Frye is not a good example if you want to argue that Landry will be fine!

He was one of the most important players on the Suns team that made it to the Western Conference Finals in Amare's last season there.