Childs2Dudley wrote:Is this thread for real?
Believe.......
TD does not penetrate and kick out he is not a great ball handler he just brings the ball up the court it's not his fault he is what he is. He is a streaky shooter and good on the fast break. I don't know how this guy is supposed to be a good defender when every point guard blows by him. He would be a great 6th or 7th man for energy not a starting point guard get me Gilbert Arenas at this point!
gr33d wrote:Can't put sprinkles on dogshit and call it ice cream.
This is my new favorite saying. I'm going to try to use it daily.
to be fair, i hate what toney looks like as a point guard, but i have to agree, he had a few decent drive and dishes, one to amar'e for a three, one to jorts for a layup and one to tyson for a layup. he showed slight improvement. but still lots more rough edges.
hopefully he can build on the improvements.
i'm not rooting against toney, i just think he's in over his head and it's affecting the actual positives he can bring to the game in a negative way. toney should be a spark-scorer from the bench and a defensive ace from the bench. asking him to be the starting playmaker takes him too much out of his game.
Its true that he had a couple of penetrations and kicks to open shooters. Hes still not playing a decent point overall, but he did pass a bit better than in the previous games.
However what is really becoming obvious is that TD has not been able to stay with his man on the perimeter. His traditional rep for defense has been a sham this year.
upstate wrote:I like TD because he hustles and plays hard, but he looks so much more comfortable as a 2 than a 1. I think he shoots better when someone passes him the ball, and he sometimes has trouble dribbling without looking at the ball, so when he looks down, he misses open teammates. He also does not seem to see the play develop in advance, which is needed to be a good 1.
Upstate - Ask yourself one fundamental question - Does Douglas make his team mates better or worse?
misterearl wrote:upstate wrote:I like TD because he hustles and plays hard, but he looks so much more comfortable as a 2 than a 1. I think he shoots better when someone passes him the ball, and he sometimes has trouble dribbling without looking at the ball, so when he looks down, he misses open teammates. He also does not seem to see the play develop in advance, which is needed to be a good 1.
Upstate - Ask yourself one fundamental question - Does Douglas make his team mates better or worse?
Well said MisterEarl. I was watching the highlights of Rose vs. Paul last night and it was just so painfully obvious what a good/great PG needs to do. Not to compare other PG's to the cream, but it becomes Obvious that good PG's (I'm going to throw Rubio immediately into that group), know how to find the open man AND set up their teamates to the rim, with spacing on their drives, etc.
You know a lot of getting assists isn't having great vision. It's simply driving and kicking it out to the open man. To me, great vision is when you clearly see the pass made in traffic, at angles, tough bounce passes, etc. Douglas can do Neither and again I'll note that I really like Douglas as an off the bench SG.
Lastly, when you have a good to great PG the team chemistry comes faster, cause you have an orchestrator.
TD's upside is a Bobby Jackson type of combo guard off the bench who isn't deeply relied on and is an energetic scorer, sort of a suprise after carmelo and crew go to catch a breath on the bench. His downside is what we're seeing, being forced into a staring role, either at the 1 or 2. Right?
93BUICK wrote:TD's upside is a Bobby Jackson type of combo guard off the bench who isn't deeply relied on and is an energetic scorer, sort of a suprise after carmelo and crew go to catch a breath on the bench. His downside is what we're seeing, being forced into a staring role, either at the 1 or 2. Right?
With the Knicks healthy, I'm not conceding that Douglas has a role on the Knicks moving forward
(An Optimists) Shift du Valentines Day
Davis
Shumpert
Carmelo
Stoudemire
Chandler
Next
Fields as sixth man, 6'7
Lin or Bibby to direct the second unit, I don't care which one
Harrellson for rebounds 6'9
Jeffries for the intangibles and defense 6'11
Steve Novak for scoring punch 6'10
That's Ten
Jerome Jordan for extra length/ rebounnding if needed 7'
Balkman in an emergency for energy
Bill Walker - DNP
Douglas - joins the expendables until he shoots better than 30 per cent
People can't keep blaming douglas for every little thing. I agree he is a not a true point guard but he is not the only one. Melo and aamare are making poor decisions. We have no depth thanks to the melo trade and they look like they dont care
I anyone here REALLY believes that TD will eventually "get it",
then I have a bridge over here in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you (cheap).
The guy is MAYBE the 8th man on a good team.
misterearl wrote:93BUICK wrote:TD's upside is a Bobby Jackson type of combo guard off the bench who isn't deeply relied on and is an energetic scorer, sort of a suprise after carmelo and crew go to catch a breath on the bench. His downside is what we're seeing, being forced into a staring role, either at the 1 or 2. Right?
With the Knicks healthy, I'm not conceding that Douglas has a role on the Knicks moving forward
(An Optimists) Shift du Valentines Day
Davis
Shumpert
Carmelo
Stoudemire
Chandler
Next
Fields as sixth man, 6'7
Lin or Bibby to direct the second unit, I don't care which one
Harrellson for rebounds 6'9
Jeffries for the intangibles and defense 6'11
Steve Novak for scoring punch 6'10
That's Ten
Jerome Jordan for extra length/ rebounnding if needed 7'
Balkman in an emergency for energy
Bill Walker - DNP
Douglas - joins the expendables until he shoots better than 30 per cent
This is what I have been saying as well. Douglas fits no role on the team when BD/Shumpert are back and provided Lin shows that he is good for 5-10 minute spells to be used in combination with Bibby's minutes to play point for the second unit. Douglas doesn't do any one thing well and he does several things poorly. The "sixth man of the year" voters keep saying he is great as a scoring option off the bench. I think Novak is a better shooter, Jeffries a better defender and even Walker will beat him into the rotation.
As for shooting more than 30%, it's possible but don't hold your breath.
TD is taking baby step and making progress running the offense...Reps baby...
I am waiting to go back and see the game, his statelines does look good.
loweyecue wrote:I am waiting to go back and see the game, his statelines does look good.
TD actually got into the lane and made use of the PnR. He didn't do his usual stop 5 feet behind the 3pt line and try to start the offense from too far out. He got closer and thus the PnR was more effective.
nixluva wrote:loweyecue wrote:I am waiting to go back and see the game, his statelines does look good.
TD actually got into the lane and made use of the PnR. He didn't do his usual stop 5 feet behind the 3pt line and try to start the offense from too far out. He got closer and thus the PnR was more effective.
Yeah - it also helped that Sacramento looked horrible defensively - epecially on the PnR
But either way, nice to see the improvement - chandler was a beast
nixluva wrote:loweyecue wrote:I am waiting to go back and see the game, his statelines does look good.
TD actually got into the lane and made use of the PnR. He didn't do his usual stop 5 feet behind the 3pt line and try to start the offense from too far out. He got closer and thus the PnR was more effective.
Sounds like Christmas came a week late. So STAT being out makes this type of impact huh?
TD IS not starting to get anything. He has been so bad that a mediocre night is welcomed with relief.
Against Sacramento. Douglas hoisted 18 shots and made only 6. That is 33 per cent. Toney Douglas should not be shooting more than Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo only took 15 shots. Douglas forced a three off the dribble that the optimist Trautwig cited immediately as a horrible decision.
The fact that Douglas executed a few fundamental basketball plays against a sloppy defense is NOT cause for optimism.
misterearl wrote:TD IS not starting to get anything. He has been so bad that a mediocre night is welcomed with relief.Against Sacramento. Douglas hoisted 18 shots and made only 6. That is 33 per cent. Toney Douglas should not be shooting more than Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo only took 15 shots. Douglas forced a three off the dribble that the optimist Trautwig cited immediately as a horrible decision.
The fact that Douglas executed a few fundamental basketball plays against a sloppy defense is NOT cause for optimism.
You just can't look at a boxscore to determine what kind of game an individual had...Those shots came within the flow of the offense...When he gets his legs they will sink..Lots of those shots were missed penetration which is exactly what we want him to do in his development...What's more important tho to the organization is how he ran the team...How did others get involve...That my friend is not fundamental to anyone playing this game...Check out Chandler's boxscore and that will paint a picture for you...U would have to be blind if you are not optimistic about what Toney put out yesterday...He got in the lane many times...He didn't pick up his dribble...He had the confidence of the team...He had 8 assist and many more that were missed...If he can build on this, it's solves tons of problems we have...
Guys here like to pick on individual plays to say what a bad decision Toney made or what a bad shot Toney took...Check out the rest of yesterday's resume...No one was perfect on every possession...
holfresh - the boxscore does not lie. I watched the game (first quarter twice) and Douglas STILL stops outside the arc and STILL retreats with token defensive pressure. he drove inside three times, total.
Shooting 33 per cent sucks in any book.
18 shots is too many when you lead dog (Carmelo) only gets 15.
