35 minutes is 35 minutes.
Rookie wrote:You know, i'm not talking about Amare not knocking down his shots because he is to good not to start making them. I am talking about staples of the MDA offense - ball movement, spreading the floor and rebounding. When these things don't happen everything breaks down and we get behind then everyone starts playing 1 on 1.
Rookie - you make valid style points. When played the right way basketball is a beautiful game. There is NOTHING more depressing than watching a selfish player go one on two, forcing a shot, while his teammates stand and watch.
The problem comes when you suggest drastically changing a players role, and the fallout that it causes in the locker room. After four games of the pre season (yes, this is still pre season no matter what the schedule says) it is a panic move that you make and stay with, or else the player feels like his contribution is taken for granted. Amar'e watching his mates swing the ball is not a bad thing. He may sit tomorrow night as well.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing
Ginobili made three All-Star games and won three championships coming off the bench.
Amar'e as sixth man would still get his 35 minutes and Knicks would have two 'starting' units instead of stacking all the chips on the first five.
This. I dont know. Off the bench he would win 6 th man of the year. He would devastate and dominate like no other. However, we are talking MVP candidate from first half of season last year. You just can't move him to the bench.
Not a bad idea in theory, but Stoudemire is too close to his physical prime to take such a "demotion." If a person is not a great team player with ball distribution, he is also less likely to be a team player by being satisfied coming off the bench. A compromise would be more liberal substitution patterns, perhaps with Jorts coming in earlier or more often if the offense seems bogged down or if there are major defensive lapses; this might encourage better team play as well, as the starters would be more concerned about being yanked for bad play.
upstate wrote:Not a bad idea in theory, but Stoudemire is too close to his physical prime to take such a "demotion." If a person is not a great team player with ball distribution, he is also less likely to be a team player by being satisfied coming off the bench. A compromise would be more liberal substitution patterns, perhaps with Jorts coming in earlier or more often if the offense seems bogged down or if there are major defensive lapses; this might encourage better team play as well, as the starters would be more concerned about being yanked for bad play.
+25
You Suck. You Sit
Threads like this are dragging this UK down.
The idea brought me to this: the problem this year may not be Amare and Melo, but Amare and Chandler (with I admit I thought was a match made in heaven). Perhaps we need to move Amare back to center and bring Jorts in to play a stretch 4. Allows Amare to operate near the hoop, recipient of pick and roll, and still has a rugged counterpart in the front court on defense.
I blame the one-game-mentality. Sports fans in general, but especially Knicks fans, dont see a progress, they see one game.
Good game -> We will be champion! Bad game -> waive Douglas. Another bad game -> get Arenas. Good game -> Jorts for starter, lets trade Amar'e!
Heck, thinking about it: Its divided into quarters for this message board! Re-read the Celtics game thread...
I don't think this is such a bad idea.
First, as far as moving him to the role, he is coming off an ankle injury, and players often start coming back from injuries by subbing in after the action has started- so there is a logic to have him work his way back in off the injury.
And I would see how it goes- if he can adjust to coming off the bench, great- if not, then I would abandon the experiment and just shift him the the starting line up.
But, we do want to limit his minutes- and its not who starts, but who finishes the game that matters.
Panos wrote:The idea brought me to this: the problem this year may not be Amare and Melo, but Amare and Chandler (with I admit I thought was a match made in heaven). Perhaps we need to move Amare back to center and bring Jorts in to play a stretch 4. Allows Amare to operate near the hoop, recipient of pick and roll, and still has a rugged counterpart in the front court on defense.
I think we'll see this due to Tyson's tendency to get in early foul trouble
To be honest, I think he spent too much time focusing on things other than basketball during the offseason. His jump shot which was money all last season seems to have gone a.w.o.l. Hell, even his free throws have been awful.
I would like to see him go inside a little because approximately 22 of his 24 shots have been jumpers.
Talk about history repeating itself- are we really going to spend the season arguing that the Knicks are a better offensive team without Amar'e, just like we used to with Ewing? Thats what the press seem to be trying to stir up these past 2 days (hello Berman!)
Some Knick fans and reporters have such a "what have you done for me lately" attitude, it's amazing any FA want to sign with us at all.
smackeddog wrote:Talk about history repeating itself- are we really going to spend the season arguing that the Knicks are a better offensive team without Amar'e, just like we used to with Ewing? Thats what the press seem to be trying to stir up these past 2 days (hello Berman!)Some Knick fans and reporters have such a "what have you done for me lately" attitude, it's amazing any FA want to sign with us at all.
Exactly!! Amare carried us last season before Melo arrived. Stat was having a legit MVP first half of the season last yr. Now, he's had 2 bad games, and Josh Harrelson had one good game against a bad team and all of a sudden, we should toy with the idea of bringing our 100mil dollar man off the bench?
didn't we all just agreed Dantoni needed to hold his players responsible for their actions.
With that said, Amare, is also coming back from injury, while having trouble adjusting with Tyson and Melo, and is forcing too many shots without allowing ball movement.
I think this is a great idea for the short term, hoping this doesn't damage Amare's ego and confidence too much.
Amare needs to adjust a little and learn that ball movement is necessary for the better of the team.
His own stats are not more important than the direction of the team as his role has changed since he first got here.
He needs a little push to understand, if he can't adjust to the team, then the possibility of him being the leader of our 2nd unit isn't such a bad idea if
Jorts continues to make it work... I don't expect Jorts to continue to do so well all the time and Amare will get back a look at being a starter but till then
he can continue to learn how to adjust to the new roster.
RonRon wrote:didn't we all just agreed Dantoni needed to hold his players responsible for their actions.
With that said, Amare, is also coming back from injury, while having trouble adjusting with Tyson and Melo, and is forcing too many shots without allowing ball movement.
I think this is a great idea for the short term, hoping this doesn't damage Amare's ego and confidence too much.
Amare needs to adjust a little and learn that ball movement is necessary for the better of the team.
His own stats are not more important than the direction of the team as his role has changed since he first got here.
He needs a little push to understand, if he can't adjust to the team, then the possibility of him being the leader of our 2nd unit isn't such a bad idea if
Jorts continues to make it work... I don't expect Jorts to continue to do so well all the time and Amare will get back a look at being a starter but till then
he can continue to learn how to adjust to the new roster.
Amare had 2 bad games and now we are ready to have him and his 100mil come off the bench? The ball movement was bad team-wide, not only on Amare's end. 3 games isn't nearly enough of a sample to come to the conclusion that Amare is the main culprit with the sticky fingers and refuses to move the ball. He only took 11 shots in the first game, had two bad games as did the team and we want to move him out of the starting line up? Speaking of jumping to conclusions, Jorts has one good game and now we can say he continues to make it work? Jorts had a good game against a head-case and a bad team. How dod jorts look vs the Lakers? Not very good. There is no reason to even entertain the idea of having Amare come off the bench...
$100 million all star starter..a bench player, gimme me break, not to mention 3rd in MVP votes..
knicks1248 wrote:$100 million all star starter..a bench player, gimme me break, not to mention 3rd in MVP votes..
Bench, starting line-up, these are superficial matters. What is superficial? It's surface, unrelated to function.
What's the difference between starting and coming off the bench if you are playing 34 minutes per game and on the floor when the buzzer sounds in the fourth?
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:knicks1248 wrote:$100 million all star starter..a bench player, gimme me break, not to mention 3rd in MVP votes..
Bench, starting line-up, these are superficial matters. What is superficial? It's surface, unrelated to function.
What's the difference between starting and coming off the bench if you are playing 34 minutes per game and on the floor when the buzzer sounds in the fourth?
If its so superficial, why didn't coach Spo just bring Lebron off the bench? Starting is Status! Always has been. You dont pay someone close to 100mil to come off the bench. Remember the big stink Sprewell made when he was coming off the bench?
Uptown wrote:MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:knicks1248 wrote:$100 million all star starter..a bench player, gimme me break, not to mention 3rd in MVP votes..
Bench, starting line-up, these are superficial matters. What is superficial? It's surface, unrelated to function.
What's the difference between starting and coming off the bench if you are playing 34 minutes per game and on the floor when the buzzer sounds in the fourth?
If its so superficial, why didn't coach Spo just bring Lebron off the bench? Starting is Status! Always has been. You dont pay someone close to 100mil to come off the bench. Remember the big stink Sprewell made when he was coming off the bench?
And status is superficial, it's an abstraction, an idea.
LeBron isn't coming off the bench because he serves the team best by starting. Amar'e is not even near LeBron's level, in skills nor in talent. If it would serve the team better to have Amar'e come off the bench and still get his 30, 35 minute, I don't see a problem. But I do understand why Amar'e might see it as a problem.
