Knicks · I love Amare (page 1)
Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
Bonn1997 wrote:Amare has no trade value.
This is an ignorant claim. How the hell does anyone know what value he has? Insured or not insured. The market was never tested.
Bonn1997 wrote:Amare has no trade value.
you cannot be serious
NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
airchibundo507 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
You been watching? You think Lin will be any worse than what TD has given us? TD is horrible.
Offensively with Chandler and Howard, you would have to run a lot of pick-and-roll with the other big on the other side waiting to cleanup or easy dunk. Also, the other team would have a nightmare trying to score in the paint. When you take one out, you still have shot blocker inside and use Jorts/Novak as the stretch 4.
NYKBocker wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
You been watching? You think Lin will be any worse than what TD has given us? TD is horrible.
Offensively with Chandler and Howard, you would have to run a lot of pick-and-roll with the other big on the other side waiting to cleanup or easy dunk. Also, the other team would have a nightmare trying to score in the paint. When you take one out, you still have shot blocker inside and use Jorts/Novak as the stretch 4.
Douglas is an average defender. His offense makes him very important for the Knicks, seeing as he is the only perimeter player who can really put the ball on the floor, run the pick and roll, hit from behind the arc (besides Novak). he's not much of a passer although he is developing some chemistry with Chandler, but he doesn't need to be with Melo as our point forward. the single thing killing the Knicks the most this season is outside shooting. You can get by with play-less iso offense only if shooters can connect from deep.
Bibby is a worse defender than Douglas and his shooting numbers this season are atrocious. The next stop for Bibby is retirement. Lin is D-league material. you've seen him perform against scrubs in scrub time... since he is a scrub himself... and yet you think he will do better against real nba players in meaningful minutes? Get real.
Im not even ready to throw in the towel on this experiment.
If Amare is healthy this season he is a comodity with 3 years left on the contract which makes it doable.
At some point Melo might actually grow into a 4 if he loses a step.
Amare gets moved because of a chemistry issue, not health. IF he degrades, his contract is not tradable. If Chemistry issue he has value.
airchibundo507 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
You been watching? You think Lin will be any worse than what TD has given us? TD is horrible.
Offensively with Chandler and Howard, you would have to run a lot of pick-and-roll with the other big on the other side waiting to cleanup or easy dunk. Also, the other team would have a nightmare trying to score in the paint. When you take one out, you still have shot blocker inside and use Jorts/Novak as the stretch 4.
Douglas is an average defender. His offense makes him very important for the Knicks, seeing as he is the only perimeter player who can really put the ball on the floor, run the pick and roll, hit from behind the arc (besides Novak). he's not much of a passer although he is developing some chemistry with Chandler, but he doesn't need to be with Melo as our point forward. the single thing killing the Knicks the most this season is outside shooting. You can get by with play-less iso offense only if shooters can connect from deep.
Bibby is a worse defender than Douglas and his shooting numbers this season are atrocious. The next stop for Bibby is retirement. Lin is D-league material. you've seen him perform against scrubs in scrub time... since he is a scrub himself... and yet you think he will do better against real nba players in meaningful minutes? Get real.
I have seen him take on John Wall in the summer league. Every team he was on, GSW and Houston, did not want to part with him but the numbers game got him. He is the only player in both instance without a guaranteed contract.
TD put the ball on the floor? He can't penetrate. He takes horrible shots. And what is this PnR game you speak off? He did it a couple of times last night and they were awkward both times. TD is a small SG. He is not a PG.
airchibundo507 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Actually I forgot about Shumpert and Davis. Still that team would be the worst three point shooting team in basketball. Sure, our defense would be stellar, but defenses would pack the paint against us. Novak would be the only outside threat on the roster. I'd rather swing Amare and Chandler for Howard and other pieces
airchibundo507 wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Actually I forgot about Shumpert and Davis. Still that team would be the worst three point shooting team in basketball. Sure, our defense would be stellar, but defenses would pack the paint against us. Novak would be the only outside threat on the roster. I'd rather swing Amare and Chandler for Howard and other pieces
Can't because of trade restrictions. Plus, you will need to take on Turkeyglue's contract. No thank you.
And that will take time.....
even more with him missing games.......
NYKBocker wrote:
I have seen him take on John Wall in the summer league. Every team he was on, GSW and Houston, did not want to part with him but the numbers game got him. He is the only player in both instance without a guaranteed contract.TD put the ball on the floor? He can't penetrate. He takes horrible shots. And what is this PnR game you speak off? He did it a couple of times last night and they were awkward both times. TD is a small SG. He is not a PG.
A summer league game? lol. And despite being such a valued commodity by GSW, he only played 30 games with under ten minutes a contest. SCRUB minutes.
TD can attack the basket. He's not great at finishing there, buy he has a nice floater he often uses. I'm not defending his shot selection. He might take tough shots, but when he is on, he makes them. He's the only pnr capable player besides Melo. He usually uses it to create offense for himself but that's better than nothing.
Again he doesn't need to be a point guard. He is instant offense. He is a streaky scorer that can create his own offense and get hot in a hurry. On top of that he plays really well off of Melo, with his ability to hit from deep and attack the basket. if you couldnt see the stark difference between our offense with Douglas in the game as opposed to Bibby, there's no hope for you.
Orlando was looking at Brook Lopez and picks, I don't think Amar'e plus whatever is a terrible deal. It is true that they want veterans, they want to rebuild on the fly.
Howard is the Shaq of this generation.
airchibundo507 wrote:this... (good post) the problem now is depth and reps. This group needs time together and not having Shump really hurts because there is NOTHING after Douglas.NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Yesterday with Douglas +3
Yesterday with Bibby -18
Do we really need to debate what the problem was yesterday?
fishmike wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:this... (good post) the problem now is depth and reps. This group needs time together and not having Shump really hurts because there is NOTHING after Douglas.NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Yesterday with Douglas +3
Yesterday with Bibby -18Do we really need to debate what the problem was yesterday?
Not to defend Bibby who is horrible in his own right...Plus and minus simply does not indicate anything about the game...Jorts who was horrible yesterday(+5)...Fields horrible (+13)...Carmelo the only reason we were in the game (-2)..Yet people here go to these stats like they have some meaning...
holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:this... (good post) the problem now is depth and reps. This group needs time together and not having Shump really hurts because there is NOTHING after Douglas.NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Yesterday with Douglas +3
Yesterday with Bibby -18Do we really need to debate what the problem was yesterday?
Not to defend Bibby who is horrible in his own right...Plus and minus simply does not indicate anything about the game...Jorts who was horrible yesterday(+5)...Fields horrible (+13)...Carmelo the only reason we were in the game (-2)..Yet people here go to these stats like they have some meaning...
+/- is a decent measure if you watched the game and know how to interpret the data. Jorts played all his minutes with the starters. Fields wasn't horrible. He couldn't make an outside shot to save his life, but his defense was good at times. Early in the fourth with Melo onthe bench, Douglas and Fields went to work.
Carmelo had a lot of minutes with the bench players to stop the bleeding. But from my observation Bibby and Harrelson were easily our two worst players.
airchibundo507 wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:this... (good post) the problem now is depth and reps. This group needs time together and not having Shump really hurts because there is NOTHING after Douglas.NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Yesterday with Douglas +3
Yesterday with Bibby -18Do we really need to debate what the problem was yesterday?
Not to defend Bibby who is horrible in his own right...Plus and minus simply does not indicate anything about the game...Jorts who was horrible yesterday(+5)...Fields horrible (+13)...Carmelo the only reason we were in the game (-2)..Yet people here go to these stats like they have some meaning...
+/- is a decent measure if you watched the game and know how to interpret the data. Jorts played all his minutes with the starters. Fields wasn't horrible. He couldn't make an outside shot to save his life, but his defense was good at times. Early in the fourth with Melo onthe bench, Douglas and Fields went to work.
Carmelo had a lot of minutes with the bench players to stop the bleeding. But from my observation Bibby and Harrelson were easily our two worst players.
Feilds was 1-7...He was (+13)...How am I to interpret that?..Good D?...Bibby played 15 min and was (-18)..He wasn't the reason the Knicks got down big...How are I to interpret that?..Jorts played 33 mins (+5)...You basically have to see the game to know actually what happened...I cannot look at a boxscore and know anything about the game based of these numbers...
holfresh wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:airchibundo507 wrote:this... (good post) the problem now is depth and reps. This group needs time together and not having Shump really hurts because there is NOTHING after Douglas.NYKBocker wrote:Before yesterday, I would not even entertain the notion of trading him....but...Right now with the current state of the team....I would knock on Orlando's door and see if they would take Amare, TD and Fields. Orlando claimed that they want veteran players. We can put the new age Twin Towers.
Then maybe we can sign The Mayor back in March.
This means for the meantime, we would have to roll with Bibby and Lin at PG. Can't be any worse than TD. We will actually have 2 players to protect the paint. Nobody is going to penetrate with that front line.
the roster would literally have three NBA players surrounded by dleaguers. Chandler and Howard at the same time? awkward as hell. no spacing on the floor.
how you can call bibby and Lin comparable to TD is beyond me. Bibby close to single handedly lost yesterday's game. He can't make a damn three and can't play defense. Absolutely useless.
Yesterday with Douglas +3
Yesterday with Bibby -18Do we really need to debate what the problem was yesterday?
Not to defend Bibby who is horrible in his own right...Plus and minus simply does not indicate anything about the game...Jorts who was horrible yesterday(+5)...Fields horrible (+13)...Carmelo the only reason we were in the game (-2)..Yet people here go to these stats like they have some meaning...
+/- is a decent measure if you watched the game and know how to interpret the data. Jorts played all his minutes with the starters. Fields wasn't horrible. He couldn't make an outside shot to save his life, but his defense was good at times. Early in the fourth with Melo onthe bench, Douglas and Fields went to work.
Carmelo had a lot of minutes with the bench players to stop the bleeding. But from my observation Bibby and Harrelson were easily our two worst players.
Feilds was 1-7...He was (+13)...How am I to interpret that?..Good D?...Bibby played 15 min and was (-18)..He wasn't the reason the Knicks got down big...How are I to interpret that?..Jorts played 33 mins (+5)...You basically have to see the game to know actually what happened...I cannot look at a boxscore and know anything about the game based of these numbers...
Theres more to the game than just shooting. Fields led the team in assists and had a couple big hustle plays in the second half. +/- tells you the Knicks made their huge second half comeback with fields in the game, and that he wasn't a major cause of our meltdown in the second quarter.
Again, you have to watch the game to be able to use +/- to corroborate beliefs.
Jorts played with our starting unit, thus his +/- was inflated
For Bibby to rack up a -18 +/- in only 15 minutes of play should tell you something.