Knicks · Potential Amare Trades (page 2)

holfresh wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

holfresh wrote:Building a Championship team doesn't happen overnight...We have major holes on this team...Amare isn't one of them...We actually need about 3 point guards...This offense is build for a PG...We don't have one...We take the most threes in the league and are one of the worst percentage shooting teams from the three...It's insane that you guys think Jorts is great taking threes...Coach wants Amare to be a jump shooter, more insanity...It took Maimi the entire season to play as a team last year..Somehow you guys think it should happen after 10 games and no training camp...

I understand all of that problem is with the new CBA its going to be very difficult to acquire good PG's. Therefore we have to trade to get what we need.

Jorts is a 2nd round pick and plays his role perfectly off the bench. He comes in bangs, defends, and supplies some offense. Biggest thing is the guy doesnt make many mistakes because he doesn't try to do too much.

Amare has NO post up game. He is a face up player who doesnt rebound, defend, pass, and wants to be "the man" when this is clearly Melo's team now.

Amare was good enough last year to take a 30 win team that doesn't matter to a 40 win team that people want to play for...And when that doesn't work we trade Melo for pieces we think will work right??

He played balls to the wall for half a season then faded and broke down before the playoffs. He also played center when he was destroying the league. Thing is the guy is 29 and when he dials it back he isn't worth 20 million considering his deficiencies. Some team would probably feature him and he'd be great for them but for us he is no longer a crucial piece.

Amare is the best PF in the East but we dont need the best PF who doesnt rebound, pass, or rebound.

Once he starts breaking down we are stuck with him and the new CBA is not very forgiving.

AnubisADL wrote:

holfresh wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

holfresh wrote:Building a Championship team doesn't happen overnight...We have major holes on this team...Amare isn't one of them...We actually need about 3 point guards...This offense is build for a PG...We don't have one...We take the most threes in the league and are one of the worst percentage shooting teams from the three...It's insane that you guys think Jorts is great taking threes...Coach wants Amare to be a jump shooter, more insanity...It took Maimi the entire season to play as a team last year..Somehow you guys think it should happen after 10 games and no training camp...

I understand all of that problem is with the new CBA its going to be very difficult to acquire good PG's. Therefore we have to trade to get what we need.

Jorts is a 2nd round pick and plays his role perfectly off the bench. He comes in bangs, defends, and supplies some offense. Biggest thing is the guy doesnt make many mistakes because he doesn't try to do too much.

Amare has NO post up game. He is a face up player who doesnt rebound, defend, pass, and wants to be "the man" when this is clearly Melo's team now.

Amare was good enough last year to take a 30 win team that doesn't matter to a 40 win team that people want to play for...And when that doesn't work we trade Melo for pieces we think will work right??

He played balls to the wall for half a season then faded and broke down before the playoffs. He also played center when he was destroying the league. Thing is the guy is 29 and when he dials it back he isn't worth 20 million considering his deficiencies. Some team would probably feature him and he'd be great for them but for us he is no longer a crucial piece.

Amare is the best PF in the East but we dont need the best PF who doesnt rebound, pass, or rebound.

Once he starts breaking down we are stuck with him and the new CBA is not very forgiving.

Your dead on the money. He doesn't defend. He can not create for himself like Dirk or even Chris Bosh!!!

Chris Bosh...Jokes

Really? Two threads about trading Amar'e after a tough loss?

REALLY!?

holfresh wrote:Chris Bosh...Jokes

Dude have you watched Chris Bosh this season? Dude has a post game. He is a better defender and rebounder than Amare. His mid range is better than Amare's.

Edit: I've seen Bosh in the low post more this year than I've ever seen Amare. At this point in the season. Chris Bosh looks better to me than Amare. I ripped on Chris Bosh all last season but IMO he is looking better than Amare. Better Shot, Defense and Jumper.

Knicksfan wrote:Really? Two threads about trading Amar'e after a tough loss?

REALLY!?

Its not right. Amare's leadership, heart and character turned the franchise around. He is in a tough spot. He is the best pnr player since Karl Malone but he is playing without a point guard and an iso star on offense. Things don't fit right now. Hopefully Davis can fix some of this.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Really? Two threads about trading Amar'e after a tough loss?

REALLY!?

Its not right. Amare's leadership, heart and character turned the franchise around. He is in a tough spot. He is the best pnr player since Karl Malone but he is playing without a point guard and an iso star on offense. Things don't fit right now. Hopefully Davis can fix some of this.

His defense? He allows lay ups and dunks? Letting diaw shit on him? His lack of rebounding? Dude has .6 blocks this season... He gets destroyed like no other on guarding the pick and roll.

He needs a pick and roll PG, we all know it. He played amazing ball when Felton started grasping the O....and fell off when Felton left. Let Baron get a few weeks in this offense and then lets see how Amare is playing.

colombian0725 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Really? Two threads about trading Amar'e after a tough loss?

REALLY!?

Its not right. Amare's leadership, heart and character turned the franchise around. He is in a tough spot. He is the best pnr player since Karl Malone but he is playing without a point guard and an iso star on offense. Things don't fit right now. Hopefully Davis can fix some of this.

His defense? He allows lay ups and dunks? Letting diaw shit on him? His lack of rebounding? Dude has .6 blocks this season... He gets destroyed like no other on guarding the pick and roll.

If you criticize a guy that came out of high school for their defense and they have had the same coach for all but 2 years of their career and 1 year he was coached by a D'Antoni clone then I think at least some of the criticism should be on the coach.

CrushAlot wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Really? Two threads about trading Amar'e after a tough loss?

REALLY!?

Its not right. Amare's leadership, heart and character turned the franchise around. He is in a tough spot. He is the best pnr player since Karl Malone but he is playing without a point guard and an iso star on offense. Things don't fit right now. Hopefully Davis can fix some of this.

His defense? He allows lay ups and dunks? Letting diaw shit on him? His lack of rebounding? Dude has .6 blocks this season... He gets destroyed like no other on guarding the pick and roll.

If you criticize a guy that came out of high school for their defense and they have had the same coach for all but 2 years of their career and 1 year he was coached by a D'Antoni clone then I think at least some of the criticism should be on the coach.

That's no excuse man your a basketball player. You take pride in being a complete player. I was never coached and I take pride in playing defense. So what about his rebounding?

I don't understand why everyone gives him a free pass. He is a piss poor defender.

colombian0725 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Really? Two threads about trading Amar'e after a tough loss?

REALLY!?

Its not right. Amare's leadership, heart and character turned the franchise around. He is in a tough spot. He is the best pnr player since Karl Malone but he is playing without a point guard and an iso star on offense. Things don't fit right now. Hopefully Davis can fix some of this.

His defense? He allows lay ups and dunks? Letting diaw shit on him? His lack of rebounding? Dude has .6 blocks this season... He gets destroyed like no other on guarding the pick and roll.

If you criticize a guy that came out of high school for their defense and they have had the same coach for all but 2 years of their career and 1 year he was coached by a D'Antoni clone then I think at least some of the criticism should be on the coach.

That's no excuse man your a basketball player. You take pride in being a complete player. I was never coached and I take pride in playing defense. So what about his rebounding?

I don't understand why everyone gives him a free pass. He is a piss poor defender.

He might be a piss poor defender at the NBA level but the point I am trying to make is that he hasn't played for anyone that would try to remediate that or make playing defense a priority. He can 'try' really hard but he doesn't get it and the most help he has had with being a defender started last year when D'Antoni gave players a folder about their opponents. D'Antoni has said that teams need to adjust to him and up until last year during his tenure the team didn't use advance scouting.

Only among knick fans can 12 poor games cancel out 78 good ones- that "what have you done for me lately" kind of attitude really annoys me (almost as much as the way the Knicks are playing right now!) If you look back at Amar'es stats, 40% is by far the worst shooting of his career- he was at 60% for most of one season! But yeah, it can't just be a slump, he must have changed into irreversable garbage over night, we should really trade him straight away...

Amar'e isn't a great rebounder or defensive player, but you know what, neither is Dirk (who incidentally is averaging 17 points on 46.9% shooting)- if you can trade Amar'e for a PF who is a great defender, great rebounder AND great offensive player, then I'm all for it! Shame they don't exist.

I still think his poor play is more about the fact that he couldn't play ball over the offseason- he couldn't work out much with the lingering back injury, and had to have a month of total rest too. I think his mistake was staying in Florida once he was cleared, rather than returning to NY and working out with Melo and the rest of the team.

Also last year Wilson Chandler could hit 3's, So could Felton, TD, Fields, and people thought Gallo still could too. This year it seems like no one can, which gives Stat less room to operate. On top of that his jump shot is off due to his muscle gain, which means all opposing teams do is bunch up in the paint and swipe at the ball as soon as he puts it on the floor.

Amare is a pick and pop, pick and roll guy and he's not being used that way, he constantly gets the ball at or above the foul line and then is left to make a play. He's never been a good defender, he tried a little harder last season but seems to not want the contact this year. It would be hard to trade him and we all know why. I want him to stay but a trade that brought back good players, I can live with it.

The only reason you even consider trading Stoudemire is for a better player like Howard. Stoudemire should never be traded for a package of lesser players like Scola and Martin. We are committed to our core and will see the real Amare when we have the solid PG play.

Amare isn't beating guys one on one anymore. He is getting rejected by guys one on one now. Last season he would have not got rejected the way he is now. It's not even about that anymore. I've seen him get the ball in places where last season it would have been a dunk or a lay up. This season he is losing the ball or getting rejected.

colombian0725 wrote:Amare isn't beating guys one on one anymore. He is getting rejected by guys one on one now. Last season he would have not got rejected the way he is now. It's not even about that anymore. I've seen him get the ball in places where last season it would have been a dunk or a lay up. This season he is losing the ball or getting rejected.

How often does he get a one on one? It's usually him against 3 of 4 defenders who are clogging the paint because no one on our team is making 3 pointers with any consistency- his team mates then all run to the opposite side of the basket, stand and cower there so he can't pass to them. The 3 or 4 defenders then swipe at the ball as soon as he puts it on the floor, leading to a turnover.

We must not be watching the same games. Wonder if we can trade Amare for Elton Brand and Williams or Holiday.

colombian0725 wrote:Amare isn't beating guys one on one anymore. He is getting rejected by guys one on one now. Last season he would have not got rejected the way he is now. It's not even about that anymore. I've seen him get the ball in places where last season it would have been a dunk or a lay up. This season he is losing the ball or getting rejected.

Amare is getting the ball further and further away from the basket than any time in his career...This year he is getting the ball around the key and we are asking the 6' 11" player to dribble with a high dribble thru defenders to the basket...If u are honest about the situation, you would see this..If you want to hammer home your point of trading him, then I guess u won't...

colombian0725 wrote:We must not be watching the same games. Wonder if we can trade Amare for Elton Brand and Williams or Holiday.

Wow i really hope you're not serious.

Knixkik wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:We must not be watching the same games. Wonder if we can trade Amare for Elton Brand and Williams or Holiday.

Wow i really hope you're not serious.

I would consider that if Elton Brand is an expiring, but he has another year on his contract. I personally, think we should at least get expiring contracts.
It would be nice to have KG and Ray Allen, as they would allow us to remain competitive and give us a shot if we make it to 7th/8th seed.
Then rebuild this year in FA, with all these available FAs. I don't think we can afford to have it invested in 1 player either.
We have to rebuild the team to the strengths of the core of

PG/ Baron Davis or Steve Nash, is taking a pay cut *and sign a player like Dragic for the future*
Iman
Melo
PF that boxes out, post presence, and can block shots, maybe a combination of 2 players
Tyson Chandler

Jorts
Jordan *both Jorts and Jordan are going to expire together, we will have to see how they develop*
How Iman develops if he can play the PG or SG, will be interesting because his defense would be stronger at the PG but he seems more comfortable at the SG.
If he is capable of playing both spots, I would look to get a combination of players that will allow to Iman to pair up with a PG, SG, and a G/F.

TD/Fields, I would look to package them together for a player that would help a team save money for players like Ariza, Ridnour, Sessions/Anthony Parker

Jeremy Lin - for now, he is the best PG we can probably put on the floor, if he is part of our future or not, he should get a good chance to see where he stands..

Another PG, some still with potential, to be mentored, and ready to contribute at the same time
========================================================================================================================

1) Dragic *played very well when started for Lowry, this year*
2) Sessions
3) Udrih *player option, I have always liked him but he might need a sign and trade*
4) Dooling *nice combo guard, wouldn't cost much, and would team up with Iman defensively*
5) Janeero Pargo *nice backup player with quickness*
6) Gaines
7) Farmer
8) Delonte West

Another SG option
===============================================================================================================

1) Ray Allen *still one of the best shooters in the league and can produce for another 2 years at this level*
2) Terry *I know he isn't young anymore, but he is still one of the best clutch shooters. At his age, I don't know what his value would be, but I think the MLE is the most he can get*
3) Barbosa *MDA friendly, but has been inconsistent with injuries, suited as a 6th man role*
4) Anthony Parker *low volume shooter and shouldn't cost much, he resigned a 1year 2.5m deal with Cavs*
5) Belinelli

G/F I think we need a couple of different players in this position
=============================================================================================================

1) Mike Dunleavy *signed a 2 year deal with Bucks, think his versatility, IQ, and skills would fit NY pefect. However, has injuries the past couple years*
2) Delfino
3) Ariza *also has problems with injuries, his versatility and athleticism, and game can change the tempo and initiate fast breaks for the 2nd unit and starting at times.
3year deal left, with last as player option, making 6.8, 7.25, and 7.75, is a realistic S&T to save money for New Orleans, they have a couple players at the position*
4) Ersan Ilyasova
5) Budinger
6) Nicolas Batum *think he will get more than the MLE, not really a realistic option for us*
7) Wilson Chandler *don't think the full MLE would be enough, but really miss him*
8) Pietrus

PF/C We need someone capable of playing with TC at PF and Center with Amare
======================================================================================

1) KG *would work wonders on the defensive end with TC, however, at his age, would the full MLE be worth it, and would he even consider it?*
2) Camby *probably bi annual exemption*
3) Bass *player option and will most likely out of his 4m player option, would take our full MLE to sign*
4) Ak47 *wouldn't pay MLE for him, but would be a nice player to have*
5) Ryan Anderson *RFA, don't think hes a realistic option, way he is playing the MLE would be matched by Orlando
6) Mahimi
7) Boris Diaw
8) Ryan Hollins
9) Samardo Samuels
10) Turiaf

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