Knicks · Best Frontcourt, Worst Backcourt (page 1)

This is what it has come down to. Nothing has changed, we have the best frontcourt in the entire league. Don't take away from Melo and Stoudemire because they are trying to do too much, and not performing at the highest level because of it.

Let's make this clear, we have the worst backcourt and one of the worst supporting casts in the entire NBA!

Our 3rd best player on offense is a rookie who was drafted mid-1st round for his defense! Can we really blame this on Melo and Stoudemire? Is it really because they don't mesh together that we are not a winning team? That is definitely not the case. We are not a winning team because we don't have a PG who can run an offense and we don't have a shooting guard or any supporting players who can shoot the basketball and spread the floor. It is really as simple as all of this.

Everyone needs to stop crying about Melo and Stat and how they are aren't stars and don't fit and all of that. They have no help. Shumpert has been great and has a ton of upside but he's a rookie. His skills are better utilized off the bench right now. We need a real PG and a real SG. Support Melo, Stat, and Chandler instead of point fingers at them, they are working with very little around them and playing 2 on 5 because there is no one to take that pressure off of them.

So again to reiterate, we have the worst backcourt in the league, and with that we can't expect to be an above average team. When we no longer have the worst backcourt in the league, we will be a very good team!

We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

Things don't change that fast. Chandler was the second best player on a championship team 6 months ago. Melo is the 3rd best SF in the league, and you can argue him over Durant. Stoudemire's production has slipped but he's still a top PF in the league. You can't look at stats for the first 14 games alone. You have to look at their careers and accomplishments thus far.

Iman must start for us, we cannot afford to be down 10 by the time he is in.
Have you watched TD and TD unable to penetrate, create, or get a good look?
They are not able to defend anyone, their own PG and have no shot vs a switched PnR.

We do not have the luxury of having Iman not start for us.
We don't have a bench player that is capable of scoring on a nightly basis.

NO ONE ELSE is producing, and neither one is a legit scoring option.
Our bench is made up of players that are one dimensional, Novak, Balkman, Walker, Bibby that is why they are barely playing

Jorts
JJ

We are missing skilled players period, that gave we depth away for Melo is haunting us

Gallo, Wilson Chandler, MozGov, Shawne Williams, even AR could are missed and can contribute for us

Fields is our best SG and all around player after Iman. But he is not a SG, we are missing a shooter that hit the wide open shot consistently
He cannot penetrate, create for himself, or create for anyone.

We aren't getting good looks shots for a lot of reasons, we don't have a

Post option, outside of Melo
Players that can penetrate with speed, quickness, and with their dribble to create shots
When you have penetration you break down the defense and force help, thus, leaving someone open

Baron Davis is our best player that can do this
Iman is the 2nd best player
Lin is just not getting a shot for PT

Fields is our best player after that

NO ONE ELSE is our bench can do this, TD or Bibby

We don't have enough shooters to space the floor and we can't afford to play our one dimensional shooters as they are horrible defenders
Our defenders are then not scorers, so having Tyson Chandler and Jarred Jeffries playing good defense, we cannot afford to play another poor scorer

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

We don't even have a very good frontcourt. We have a ball-stopper and a Shareef Abdur-Rahim PF. We do have a very good center though. If I were starting a team, I'd rather pick NBA players randomly out of a hat than start with our forwards.

We don't have the best front court in the east.

colombian0725 wrote:We don't have the best front court in the east.

Which is the better front court, pure one-for-one individual talent?

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:We don't have the best front court in the east.

Which is the better front court, pure one-for-one individual talent?

Um, Miami.

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

We don't even have a very good frontcourt. We have a ball-stopper and a Shareef Abdur-Rahim PF. We do have a very good center though. If I were starting a team, I'd rather pick NBA players randomly out of a hat than start with our forwards.

Pick out of a hat than 2 perennial all-stars? Wow. How did the opinion of these 2 drop so fast by some? I for one still see them both as all-star players in the NBA and would not trade them each for 1 player randomly picked out of a hat.

Amare for Dwill ?

Melo for Dwight Howard???

If no body would do that than I don't know know what else to say.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

We don't even have a very good frontcourt. We have a ball-stopper and a Shareef Abdur-Rahim PF. We do have a very good center though. If I were starting a team, I'd rather pick NBA players randomly out of a hat than start with our forwards.

Pick out of a hat than 2 perennial all-stars? Wow. How did the opinion of these 2 drop so fast by some? I for one still see them both as all-star players in the NBA and would not trade them each for 1 player randomly picked out of a hat.

"All-star" just means that fans who are misguided by fancy play and high point totals (Melo case) like the player or that the player once was very good (Amare)

"Our 3rd best player on offense is a rookie who was drafted mid-1st round for his defense!"

While I dont necessarily agree with you, that line mad me laugh for some reason, good day sir!

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

We don't even have a very good frontcourt. We have a ball-stopper and a Shareef Abdur-Rahim PF. We do have a very good center though. If I were starting a team, I'd rather pick NBA players randomly out of a hat than start with our forwards.

Pick out of a hat than 2 perennial all-stars? Wow. How did the opinion of these 2 drop so fast by some? I for one still see them both as all-star players in the NBA and would not trade them each for 1 player randomly picked out of a hat.

"All-star" just means that fans who are misguided by fancy play and high point totals (Melo case) like the player or that the player once was very good (Amare)

So are you suggesting Amare is past his prime at age 29? I think it has to do more with the players he plays with and the lack of complimentary players. How does a player go from MVP consideration one season to a not very good player the next? It amazes me how some people are so down on our team that they consider these players not very good! Any basketball expert in the world would still welcome Melo and Stoudemire on their teams with open arms, and expect all-star caliber play from them.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

We don't even have a very good frontcourt. We have a ball-stopper and a Shareef Abdur-Rahim PF. We do have a very good center though. If I were starting a team, I'd rather pick NBA players randomly out of a hat than start with our forwards.

Pick out of a hat than 2 perennial all-stars? Wow. How did the opinion of these 2 drop so fast by some? I for one still see them both as all-star players in the NBA and would not trade them each for 1 player randomly picked out of a hat.

"All-star" just means that fans who are misguided by fancy play and high point totals (Melo case) like the player or that the player once was very good (Amare)

So are you suggesting Amare is past his prime at age 29? I think it has to do more with the players he plays with and the lack of complimentary players. How does a player go from MVP consideration one season to a not very good player the next? It amazes me how some people are so down on our team that they consider these players not very good! Any basketball expert in the world would still welcome Melo and Stoudemire on their teams with open arms, and expect all-star caliber play from them.

No, many fans in Denver who watched him his whole career were thrilled just to see him go. It's amazing how much fans here drool over big name players.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:We don't have the best frontcourt in the NBA. Chandler might not be a top 5 center in the eastern conference. In fact there are about 10 guys that are interchangeable. STAT is 18pts 41%. And Melo is the best scoring SF in the east that's about it.

Although we have the worst backcourt you would take numberous frontcourts over ours right now. Prior to the season we could make that claim. Not now.

We don't even have a very good frontcourt. We have a ball-stopper and a Shareef Abdur-Rahim PF. We do have a very good center though. If I were starting a team, I'd rather pick NBA players randomly out of a hat than start with our forwards.

Pick out of a hat than 2 perennial all-stars? Wow. How did the opinion of these 2 drop so fast by some? I for one still see them both as all-star players in the NBA and would not trade them each for 1 player randomly picked out of a hat.

"All-star" just means that fans who are misguided by fancy play and high point totals (Melo case) like the player or that the player once was very good (Amare)

So are you suggesting Amare is past his prime at age 29? I think it has to do more with the players he plays with and the lack of complimentary players. How does a player go from MVP consideration one season to a not very good player the next? It amazes me how some people are so down on our team that they consider these players not very good! Any basketball expert in the world would still welcome Melo and Stoudemire on their teams with open arms, and expect all-star caliber play from them.

No, many fans in Denver who watched him his whole career were thrilled just to see him go. It's amazing how much fans here drool over big name players.

They were thrilled to see him go for the simple fact that they couldn't deal with the distraction that was being created anymore. When things were good and he wasn't demanding a trade, you won't find one person shouting "trade Melo." They were happy to see him go because of the scenario. He made them a good team every year. He led them to the playoffs. He is widely considered a top nba player. Don't get fooled by 14 games. This roster doesn't fit him right now, we get that. But no one was saying Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were terrible when Miami was a .500 team thru 18 games last season. It takes time, be patient.

The argument over who is better than who is fun, but its very difficult to set parameters to make it valid. Certain systems require setain players to be successful. If your system and your players don't match does it mean that the players are bad or that the system is bad? I don't think so. So with that in mind, we can see that this situation is a fail, but what can we do to make it better? There is always a solution and certain moves are easier to make than others. What system does our roster fit the most? We cannot answer that before BD plays a game with all certainty. MDA's system needs a capablePG, no question. Will BD be able to just cover up our shortcomings or make us elite? I don't know. I'd like to think the latter, I hope so.

ramtour420 wrote:The argument over who is better than who is fun, but its very difficult to set parameters to make it valid. Certain systems require setain players to be successful. If your system and your players don't match does it mean that the players are bad or that the system is bad? I don't think so. So with that in mind, we can see that this situation is a fail, but what can we do to make it better? There is always a solution and certain moves are easier to make than others. What system does our roster fit the most? We cannot answer that before BD plays a game with all certainty. MDA's system needs a capablePG, no question. Will BD be able to just cover up our shortcomings or make us elite? I don't know. I'd like to think the latter, I hope so.

This is exactly true. Not sure why people confuse this and think players are just bad. Melo and Stoudemire are both very good players, and both are stars depending on your definition of star (some people think stars are top-5 players.) I for one would build a team around Melo and Stoudemire 7 days out of the week. It is just important to really figure out what pieces fit and what system fits those 2 players. We don't have that right now, but owe that time to change.

Assuming Baron is ok to play consistently, this team will be fine. Perhaps add a shooter or another scorer. There were reports about jr smith. I wouldn't mind bringing him in, head case and all. There are enough veteran guys on the team to kill that.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:We don't have the best front court in the east.

Which is the better front court, pure one-for-one individual talent?

Um, Miami.

Ok, you got that. But only Because LeBron > Melo + Amar'e.