http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/sports/basketball/for-knicks-celebrated-trade-celebrated-no-more.html?ref=todayspaper
The imagery will be irresistible, the temptation for sweeping judgments overpowering. Conclusions will be drawn and proclamations made, all of it justifiable, albeit possibly premature.
The Denver Nuggets are coming to Madison Square Garden on Saturday, bringing with them a fluid, egalitarian offense, a gleaming win-loss record and a vivid reminder of the trade that irrevocably altered the Knicks’ destiny.
Judgment will be in the eyes of the beholder, although those eyes may be stinging with rage.
- Howard Beck
I love the Knicks, and I want them to win, but I would not be angry if Gallo made it rain.
Howard Beck Nailed It
"Prudence dictates that a trade of such magnitude cannot be fully appraised after 40 games, stretched over 11 months. But prudence has never been the New York way, and the results so far stand as a searing indictment.
(The trade) goes beyond the win-loss records, to the makeup and personality of the teams, post-trade."
ill be there, traveling through snow to see it. better play well OR ELSE.
One thing is for sure about this game:
if we lose some fans will act like the sky is falling, if we win some fans will think it vindicates everything.
Bottom line.. Although it is an important game, it is only one game.
I didn't like the trade, but it's unevenness is being exagerrated. Essentially it was:
Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mosgov, Felton, picks
for
Melo, Tyson Chandler and Baron Davis
Whether you'd do it or not, I think it was a fair trade. Still, I hope we win that game just so the media can stop going on and on about it all season.
The fact that we have the exact same record after 14 games as last year when we had all the guys people are griping about losing in the trade seems to escape some people.
We are in the exact same position that we were in at the same point last year when the team with Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Mozgov, and Anthony Randolph were still learning how to play as a team.
nyvector16 wrote:The fact that we have the exact same record after 14 games as last year when we had all the guys people are griping about losing in the trade seems to escape some people.We are in the exact same position that we were at the same point last year when the team with Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Mozgov, and Anthony Randolph were still learning how to play as a team.
The other fact is that they are winning something like 60% of their games since the trade and we have a losing record.
This just goes to prove that with any trade, it's not all about X's and O's, or sheer talent over role players.
You have to consider everything: salary compensation, team positional needs, and just as importantly, TEAM FIT.
Unless you're a top 5 talent a la Lebron & D-Wade, it is absolutely detrimental to the development and chemistry of your basketball team by bringing in multiple one-dimensional players. For example: players that need constant ball touches to thrive, offensive-minded only players, players that play in the same area of the court, etc.
Melo and Amare, while unquestionably offensively talented, were never known to have improved their surrounding teammates nor were known for their defense. Add those two together w/ a Mike Antoni... and well... here are your 2011-12 New York Knicks.
OjilEye wrote:This just goes to prove that with any trade, it's not all about X's and O's, or sheer talent over role players.
You have to consider everything: salary compensation, team positional needs, and just as importantly, TEAM FIT.Unless you're a top 5 talent a la Lebron & D-Wade, it is absolutely detrimental to the development and chemistry of your basketball team by bringing in multiple one-dimensional players. For example: players that need constant ball touches to thrive, offensive-minded only players, players that play in the same area of the court, etc.
Melo and Amare, while unquestionably offensively talented, were never known to have improved their surrounding teammates nor were known for their defense. Add those two together w/ a Mike Antoni... and well... here are your 2011-12 New York Knicks.
So true. It's not the pieces of the system, it's the interaction between these pieces that determines the outcome.
I don't know if this is a "Must Win Game", but I agree it is a "Must Play Well" Game, just for the psyche of the team at the moment, and all that's written in the media about Denver getting the better of the Melo Trade blah blah. Could be a playoff type atmosphere, or could be a boo bird city blowout(Fire D'Antoni chants).
I truly believed in this team when the season started but I'm starting to agree with the posters on this board. Melo and Amare is not the answer to this team. I don't think we can ever be a good team with them. Melo is a great talent but the more I watch him the more I believe that his ISO and ball stopping ways is just killing this team. Amare as well. His defense and rebounding just hurts us in too many ways. Add that to our poor bench and that's what we see. I truly don't think we have the right guys...
nyk4ever wrote:ill be there, traveling through snow to see it. better play well OR ELSE.
or else you'll come back to the boards and post furiously?
Misterearl,
We have absolutely no answer for a team like the Nuggets which can run 10 good players at you
and not skip a beat for 4 quarters. On top of that, the Nuggets lead the league in assists. They are unselfish and they look for the hot hand in the 4th quarter for their "go to guy." They take turns being that guy.
More insight: The purpose of the second team is to rest your starters and hold the lead while they rest. Historically, good teams second units sometimes even add to the lead. Since we are only 7-8 deep at best, we can't expect to do well against a team with such depth.
I expect a Nuggets win by 10 or more Saturday night. I've said it before and I'll say it again....
I sincerely hope that a "stink up the joint performance" in this game will be the catalyst that sends MDA out the door and further exposes Dolan for the jerk that he is in forcing the Melo trade.
Final score:
Denver 111
Knicks 93
KBC
OjilEye wrote:This just goes to prove that with any trade, it's not all about X's and O's, or sheer talent over role players.
You have to consider everything: salary compensation, team positional needs, and just as importantly, TEAM FIT.Unless you're a top 5 talent a la Lebron & D-Wade, it is absolutely detrimental to the development and chemistry of your basketball team by bringing in multiple one-dimensional players. For example: players that need constant ball touches to thrive, offensive-minded only players, players that play in the same area of the court, etc.
Melo and Amare, while unquestionably offensively talented, were never known to have improved their surrounding teammates nor were known for their defense. Add those two together w/ a Mike Antoni... and well... here are your 2011-12 New York Knicks.
Outstanding post that qualifies for the POD.
Back in the day, Martha and The Vandellas had a song called "Quicksand"
KBC - our second unit has already been exposed as a weak link by lesser shift lines. With Carmelo hurting, and the pace of Denver's unselfish play, Amar'e could be lugging his 20 extra pounds like a steamer trunk by the fourth quarter. It puts extra pressure on Tyson Chandler to cover defensive lapses, which will be numerous.
Did someone say "switch"?
Denver is 28-12 post-trade. That's not a huge sample but it corresponds to almost 60 wins over a full season.
smackeddog wrote:I didn't like the trade, but it's unevenness is being exagerrated. Essentially it was:Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mosgov, Felton, (4) picks and cap space freedom (fixed)
for
Melo, Tyson Chandler, Baron Davis, loss of amnesty for the duration of the CBA, cap space hell,
and a gazillion dollars (fixed).
Whether you'd do it or not, I think it was a fair trade. Still, I hope we win that game just so the media can stop going on and on about it all season.
FIXED ^^^^^.
This much is obvious: We are run by one of the most egotistical owners in pro sports whose only objective is to fill the Garden with fannies and turn a big profit. It's becoming more and more difficult for me to be a fan of such a losing atmosphere top to bottom. Honestly, besides enjoying interactions with some great posters on this board, the GAME PICKER feature is the only fun that
I'm having following this team of misfits right now.
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:smackeddog wrote:I didn't like the trade, but it's unevenness is being exagerrated. Essentially it was:Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mosgov, Felton, (4) picks and cap space freedom (fixed)
for
Melo, Tyson Chandler, Baron Davis, loss of amnesty for the duration of the CBA, cap space hell,
and a gazillion dollars (fixed).
Whether you'd do it or not, I think it was a fair trade. Still, I hope we win that game just so the media can stop going on and on about it all season.
This much is obvious: We are run by one of the most egotistical owners in pro sports whose only objective is to full the Garden with fannies and turn a big profit. It's becoming more and more difficult for me to be a fan of such a losing atmosphere top to bottom.
I fully agree. I've been watching fewer of the games because they just aren't fun to watch.
Yes, Bonn...and when the entertainment becomes poor, the natives become restless.
Mediocrity doesn't cut it in NY.
Bonn1997 wrote:Denver is 28-12 post-trade. That's not a huge sample but it corresponds to almost 60 wins over a full season.
Then I was wrong, they are winning 70% of their games while we are below .500.
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Yes, Bonn...and when the entertainment becomes poor, the natives become restless.
Mediocrity doesn't cut it in NY.
In Noo Yawk, entertainment is measured in assists. Nothing else matters. The wins are secondary.
“We have a group of unselfish players,” and adding, “From a selfish mentality to the willingness to grow and learn together, this group is very good.” - Aaron Affalo
New Yorkers do NOT tolerate ugly basketball on West 4th Street and are not going enjoy paying big money to watch ugly basketball at The World's Most Famous Arena.
Hit the open man
