Knicks · Carmelo Anthony (page 4)

RonRon wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you made statements that, unlike mine, are unsupportable.

Okay, genius.

Tell me how Melo was carried by his teammates to the WCF when he averaged 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3PG. That includes a game winning three-pointer in Dallas and him dropping 40 points against the eventual champions in the first game of their series.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118...

http://www.lakersweb.net/yearbyyear/lala...

You do not win with 1 player, my example is in the links above. Stats are overrated, its a measure for players to earn "all star status" endorsements, contracts, promote fame and ,unfortunately, win some fans. You are the one of the examples that stats and emotions have taken your ability to analyze and think with your brain...

Ummm... he had big numbers that year because he played alongside trash, and despite playing with trash, he carried the team to the playoffs single handedly in a loaded conference and had a 3-1 lead over a higher seeded team.

Regardless of the stats, Melo was clearly the best player on that WCF team to anyone with a brain that watched them. His impact on the team transcended anyone else's.

Billups
Affalo
Melo
Martin
Nene

JR Smith
Birdman
Lawson
Petro

that team is not trash, had they kept Camby instead of trading him for a 2nd round pick, they would have been quite deep.

Affalo
Lawson

were both rookies that contributed their first years and continue to develop today.

My point in showing you Kobe's performance that year, is because he had his argueuabally his best peformance that year, after trading Shaq.
That was the year he scored amazing points and had the biggest career games but you do not win with one player.
As great as the numbers were and how many 30+ pt games and much more that year, they were a lotto team, and drafted Bynum in the summer.
You put too much emphasize on stats created by one player vs the production as a team.
Imagine a team Kobe and Melo on the same team, they could put up sick numbers just like Allen Iverson did when he played in Denver with Melo.
Without Gasol or Bynum, they would have no shot, to being legit contenders.

Without talent and the right players around them, they would put up sick numbers, but that doesn't translate to wins.
Basketball is a team game, not a an individual performance. It is better to have 1 "scorer" than 2 "scorers" that do not contribute improve the production of players around them. We already had Amare, at that role, depth, and players to compliment each other are very under rated.
Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Felton were not role players, they might not be in the same caliber as Melo at the trade, but they were far more balanced and fitted the team better. They are still young and have not peaked at all, while Melo has peaked already. Not to mention the ability to still add salary, draft picks, MozGoV, and AR can produce or be assets.

That's not the team they got to the WCF with.

Try:

Billups
Dahntay Jones
Melo
KMart
Nene

JR Smith
Kleiza
Chris Anderson
Anthony Carter
Balkman

That was the rotation right there. 8 deep. Carter and Jones were liabilities on offense because they couldn't hit from long range. KMart and Nene together averaged a whopping 26 ppg, 14 rpg. The frontcourt was plagued by injuries every season. JR was in the doghouse every other game.

Stop pretending that the Nuggets were always loaded and stop belittling Melo's value to that team. Had the Melo trade gone down with this roster, those Nuggets would be a .500 team.

i am not belittling Melo's importance, I am backing up the value we payed for him was not worth what we gave up,

vs keeping our core and adding to it.

I am saying like Kobe's "greatest year" you still need talent, players around him, a system and a team vs praising one player's stats which you are doing...

RonRon wrote:i am not belittling Melo's importance, I am backing up the value we payed for him was not worth what we gave up,

vs keeping our core and adding to it.

I am saying like Kobe's "greatest year" you still need talent, players around him, a system and a team vs praising one player's stats which you are doing...

I'm fine with that argument.

But I won't stand here listening to you support Bonn spout bullsh*t like this:

The teams with Melo in Denver played reasonably well in spite of, not because of, Carmelo's inefficiency on offense. Billups and Nene are each extremely efficient on offense (look at TS%, not FG%), which compensated for Carmelo.

airchibundo507 wrote:

RonRon wrote:i am not belittling Melo's importance, I am backing up the value we payed for him was not worth what we gave up,

vs keeping our core and adding to it.

I am saying like Kobe's "greatest year" you still need talent, players around him, a system and a team vs praising one player's stats which you are doing...

I'm fine with that argument.

But I won't stand here listening to you support Bonn spout bullsh*t like this:

The teams with Melo in Denver played reasonably well in spite of, not because of, Carmelo's inefficiency on offense. Billups and Nene are each extremely efficient on offense (look at TS%, not FG%), which compensated for Carmelo.

Instead of bitching, can you tell us why TS% is not a useful stat? What is it about the calculation that is invalid? Why? You seem good at make dramatic statements but unable or uninterested in making a valid argument. You also seem to take it a bit too personally.

Bonn1997 wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

RonRon wrote:i am not belittling Melo's importance, I am backing up the value we payed for him was not worth what we gave up,

vs keeping our core and adding to it.

I am saying like Kobe's "greatest year" you still need talent, players around him, a system and a team vs praising one player's stats which you are doing...

I'm fine with that argument.

But I won't stand here listening to you support Bonn spout bullsh*t like this:

The teams with Melo in Denver played reasonably well in spite of, not because of, Carmelo's inefficiency on offense. Billups and Nene are each extremely efficient on offense (look at TS%, not FG%), which compensated for Carmelo.

Instead of bitching, can you tell us why TS% is not a useful stat? What is it about the calculation that is invalid? Why? You seem good at make dramatic statements but unable or uninterested in making a valid argument.

I never said the stat wasn't useful. I said Melo was the best player on that Nuggets team and by a good margin. Melo was never had to be compensated for; he was efficient considering the amount of pressure opposing defenses put on him. Since defenses were geared to stop Melo, that allowed easier scoring opportunities for his teammates.

And looking at the percentages of a FINISHER at the basket is ludicrous. I'm sure Chandler has the highest TS% on the current Knicks squad. Does that mean he compensates for Melo, although Melo has generated about half of his open looks? Nonsense.

Can't Wait

The best scene from last night's game, other than the 13 assists, was Lin seated on the bench between Stoudemire and Anthony. It was like three guys sitting on a stoop watching cute babes walk by. At one point, Lin had to cover his mouth with a towel to hide his smile. That is a clue about the return of Carmelo Anthony.

We're not losing a Bill Walker. We are gaining about three more inches in height, a defender of small forwards, and a ball-handler adept enough get his own shot off the dribble, if needed. The entire point forward experiment was NOT by the Anthony Mason dictionary definition. Mase was only asked to advance the ball past halfcourt and give it up. Carmelo was forced into the role of facilitator to compensate for the incompetence of Toney Douglas. It was as frustrating for him to play as it was to watch.

Did you notice how much the second unit, in the fourth quarter, resembled the putrid basketball we were watching only twelve days ago?

The signal between Lin and Carmelo on the court? It will not be a nod or a wink. They will do the same thing they did on the bench last night.

They will smile at each other

misterearl wrote:

Did you notice how much the second unit, in the fourth quarter, resembled the putrid basketball we were watching only twelve days ago?

Yep and if you look at it another way we looked a lot better in garbage time when Lin was only getting garbage minutes. Replace Lin with TD in garbage time and you get to see the definition of garbage time played out before your eyes

gunsnewing wrote:Yep and if you look at it another way we looked a lot better in garbage time when Lin was only getting garbage minutes. Replace Lin with TD in garbage time and you get to see the definition of garbage time played out before your eyes

Not really. Lin may have been a bit shaky in trash time but the potential for 10 assists per game was evident, and was noted in the record.

When Lin sits, we desperately need someone to bring the ball past halfcourt with panache. The best alternate is Landry Fields.

The most pivotal players for the Knicks second half are Lin, Chandler and Carmelo Anthony. These three are the new core that is depended on for consistent performances, every night.

Statistically, a random baseline of expectations could go something like this:

Lin - 12 points and 9 assists, 5 rebounds

Chandler - 10 points and 10 rebounds, 2 assists

Carmelo - 20 points and 7 rebounds, 5 assists

More important, this group must take responsibility for setting the tone for others to follow. Lin must be prepared to dictate offensive pace. Carmelo must be the best compliment he can be, and pick up his roll (pun intended) so that Tyson Chandler can do what he does best - man the high post to initiate the offense and anchor the interior defense.

The key is Carmelo. His versatility and ball handling will assist Lin against "Miami pressure" that opponent will attempt to duplicate. Landry Fields will play more of a role as forward, not guard on offense. The bottom line is the ball must move quickly. Lin must develop a long passing game, as Steve Nash employs, to break pressure.

Whatever the other two starters can contribute, in double figure productivity, is gravy. With gifted replacements in Harrellson (just cleared to practice) and JR Smith (fresh haircut), Fields (keep cutting to the rack) and Stoudemire (just rebound baby) are on the clock.

If ImanShumpert's knees stop barking, things could get interesting. Steve Novak, come on down.

Jared Jeffries, stay ready my friend.

That makes 9.