Papabear Says
This team is not a D'Antoni type team. His teams are run and gun.
We knew what D'Antoni was when he first came here.
It was not D'Antoni's fault that we traded away the whole team to get Melo
It's not D'Antoni's fault that the Knicks can't shoot. The Net's took our best 3 point shooter because we stood him up waiting for a deal that fell through.
How do you expect to win when you have no shooters you can depend on
But I do agree that D'Antoni must go because.-- We had players such a Randolph last year who D'Antoni never gave a chance.
He makes bad decisions when his team starts to play poor. He don't know when to call a time out.
So goes the team the Head Coach goes first.
Last nights game showed poor decisions by D'Antoni. Putting Toney Douglas in and he stunk up the place.
If things don't change this deal may go down as the worst trade deal the Knicks ever did.
Yea and Randolph is ripping it right now in Minny.
Jordan Hill is an All-Star.
I agree it's not MDA's fault and he needs to go to save the hair on his head.
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysThis team is not a D'Antoni type team. His teams are run and gun.
We knew what D'Antoni was when he first came here.
It was not D'Antoni's fault that we traded away the whole team to get Melo
It's not D'Antoni's fault that the Knicks can't shoot. The Net's took our best 3 point shooter because we stood him up waiting for a deal that fell through.
How do you expect to win when you have no shooters you can depend on
But I do agree that D'Antoni must go because.-- We had players such a Randolph last year who D'Antoni never gave a chance.
He makes bad decisions when his team starts to play poor. He don't know when to call a time out.
So goes the team the Head Coach goes first.
Last nights game showed poor decisions by D'Antoni. Putting Toney Douglas in and he stunk up the place.
If things don't change this deal may go dow't as the worst trade deal the Knicks ever did.
If I were D'Antoni I'd want to get fired. If you re-sign, you don't keep your money. But if you're fired, you do.
It wasn't MDA's fault last night...I thought he called some good time outs...Some of the plays after the time outs can be questioned that thats ok...There was a lul in our offense where he needed to call a time out for a set play and he didn't but that's cool...Maybe MDA can grow in this roll...Selective threes, better defense and we play a possession game...The team is looking better, let MDA continue to grow...Firing MDA now will only upset the season and we can turn this around...Go MDA!!! Go Knicks !!!
He is in a tough spot. He lost his players that fit his system. He lost the gm that brought him here and shared his vision. He is a coach that desperately needs a point guard and he lost him to get Tyson. He had to accept the hiring of Mike Woodson. If it wasn't for some of the damage, and ineptness he displayed his first three years in NY I would feel bad for him. His situation is a little like Lenny Wilkins when Dick Helm was fired and the coaching staff was all Isiah guys other then Lenny. I think management has moved on but they are giving him a chance to show if he can change. I think he gets the season and then the Knicks move on.
After all of the changes that we've seen take place on this roster, This team is supposed to be a playoff/title contender. We're SEVEN games under .500. This team should not have such a dismal, embarrassing record. The coach is paid to get the most out of the players on his roster, and it's excruciatingly obvious that MDA is failing at that task.
D'Antoni has no defense, nor does he deserve any IMO.
What's the difference between WTF is happening right now and tanking the season? This must stop. Now. Starting with MDA and his "oh, well, we're a little snakebit right now" aloof attitude.
I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.
Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.
martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
I think he was saying that in a run and gun system stops and rebounds can get your offense jump started, kind of what Nets did last trip to the finals. MDA's system is not based off of fast breaks tho. It's a different type of run and gun, and we are not even using that system this year. I like what the announcers said last night tho, first 20 secs look for a good shot and the last 5 seconds give it to Melo
This is not a D'Antoni team that is why its time to move on no hard feelings. The organization just chose to go in a different direction. It would not be fair to Dantoni to make him continue to coach a team that does not suite his style. I'm sure Amare understands this and he is happy for MDA
martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
Maybe this is why the Knicks never get easy baskets, because like D'antoni, you think they don't go hand in had. Their opponents run their offense the way they want to on the Knicks, which NEVER lets them produce easy baskets in transition.
And I love when people mention a proven championship system to Mike D'antoni's unproven one lol.
It doesn't matter if I like it or not, its just ineffective.
CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.
both Nash and Diaw weren't nearly the players they were before getting into MDA's system.
You can talk chicken and egg all you want, but that is fact. MDA's system also benefited from having Nash run it.
I don't know why you would rely on a Biaw comment and call it conclusive evidence without knowing the context of question or answer.
Raving about Nash has nothing to do about NOT raving about something else. Perhaps beat writer asked "what are your thoughts on Nash?"
JrZyHuStLa wrote:martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
Maybe this is why the Knicks never get easy baskets, because like D'antoni, you think they don't go hand in had. Their opponents run their offense the way they want to on the Knicks, which NEVER lets them produce easy baskets in transition.
And I love when people mention a proven championship system to Mike D'antoni's unproven one lol.
It doesn't matter if I like it or not, its just ineffective.
MDA's offensive system has been best or near best in the league until just this year. With mediocre to crap guys in it. That would suggest to me that you comment about getting easy baskets is full of crap.
MDA has an unproven system? because he didn't win a title? Is that your criteria?
1. It's nearly impossible to really run your offense when the main position player you need to know everything and execute changes every year or is incapable of running the plays to a high degree. PG is the QB of the offense and this system has over 100 plays and multiple variations of each play. A kid like Shump can't learn all of that with no SL and no real Training camp and TD just doesn't have natural talents to run it. At best they're running maybe 1/8th of the playbook. I've had it for years and I can tell you this team hasn't been running a great deal of it. It takes talent and time to master the in and outs of the system and once you do it's very good.
2. MDA has adjusted to his players not only this year but in previous years. Anyone that doesn't recognize this is blind or just ignorant of what's going on. He's been giving them what they can handle. Without a PG that isn't much.
3. We don't have the shooting this year that we've had in the past. The team is shooting 42% and 31% from 3!!! That's abysmal. Historically MDA does a great job getting his players to improve their shooting, but he can't work miracles.
4. The team hasn't tuned him out!!! You fire a coach when the team isn't responding, but can you say they're not responding when you can see that they're playing as hard as they can, but just aren't able to get over the hump? Against the Bulls and Celtic's this team didn't just fold. They fought to the very end. They just can't execute at a high level.
5. The roster needs upgrades. There's no margin for error and boy does this team error. This is a mistake prone team. This is why they tried to get vets like Grant Hill. You need guys that just know how to play and make smart decisions. That said Shump is getting better from all of this. I think Lin has a chance to be a good part of the rotation. We'll see if Grunwald will be able to add a JR Smith or someone else later.
If this team can continue to player at this level for most of their remaining games, they should be able to get back into the playoff mix. There will be winnable games on the schedule like today, but they've got to get over the hump. I know they'll be tired cuz they lack depth. Just gotta hope they can win and move on from there. This is a good game for Lin and Jordan to get in. We'll see.
martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.
both Nash and Diaw weren't nearly the players they were before getting into MDA's system.
You can talk chicken and egg all you want, but that is fact. MDA's system also benefited from having Nash run it.
I don't know why you would rely on a Biaw comment and call it conclusive evidence without knowing the context of question or answer.
Raving about Nash has nothing to do about NOT raving about something else. Perhaps beat writer asked "what are your thoughts on Nash?"
I agree about both Diaw and Nash putting up better numbers under D'Antoni. I also have thought saying D'Antoni can't win unless he has Nash at the point was a bit simplistic view. My point was that I think it has a bit more credibility after Diaw's comments. Diaw was being asked about his former coach because he had just had a huge game against him. Diaw was the one that brought up playing with Nash. If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.
CrushAlot wrote: If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.
how is that data relevant when we all know he walked into a situation where losing for the first 2-3 years was guaranteed?
quite literally, since Nash, MDA has had Felton for 55 games and Billups for like 20. And Duhon, TD, Shump.
So what.
martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote: If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.
how is that data relevant when we all know he walked into a situation where losing for the first 2-3 years was guaranteed?
quite literally, since Nash, MDA has had Felton for 55 games and Billups for like 20. And Duhon, TD, Shump.
So what.
I might not be understandinjg your question, are you asking if the parts of 5 plus seasons (380games) that D'Antoni hasn't had Nash playing the point are relevant?
Here's Diaw's quote from Wojo's article.
[Yes, they’ll always have Phoenix. They’ll always have those memories together. And they’ll always have this truth about their NBA careers: Without Steve Nash, nothing was ever the same again.“There’s no two like Steve in the world,” Diaw said. “You’ve got to be able to adapt. The reactions are made in a tenth of a second – the reactions, the readings. It’s a lot of cuts, a lot of screens. You’ve got to read pretty quickly, and Steve Nash was the best at it.
“He still is, in my opinion.”
/quote]
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw...
CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.
both Nash and Diaw weren't nearly the players they were before getting into MDA's system.
You can talk chicken and egg all you want, but that is fact. MDA's system also benefited from having Nash run it.
I don't know why you would rely on a Biaw comment and call it conclusive evidence without knowing the context of question or answer.
Raving about Nash has nothing to do about NOT raving about something else. Perhaps beat writer asked "what are your thoughts on Nash?"
I agree about both Diaw and Nash putting up better numbers under D'Antoni. I also have thought saying D'Antoni can't win unless he has Nash at the point was a bit simplistic view. My point was that I think it has a bit more credibility after Diaw's comments. Diaw was being asked about his former coach because he had just had a huge game against him. Diaw was the one that brought up playing with Nash. If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.
When MDA 1st got a shot in the NBA he was on a poor team like most new NBA coaches. Rarely do they come into good situations. The 50 games in Denver in his 1st Head coaching job isn't fair to judge him on. The next shot he got he took over for Frank Johnson with the team in free fall and despite his final record the team retained him due to how the young players performed. The next year with Nash and a full Training camp to put in his system he excelled.
Coaches win with talent. When he's had talent and consistency he's won. I have no doubt that he can win here. IF they had a full training camp and SL and a PG to start the season, things would've been better. Not perfect but better. Guys still came in rusty and a bit out of top shape, but the foundation would've been better. Rather than having to rely on an untested Rookie Combo guard to run his system.
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W-L%
1998-99 47 NBA DEN 50 14 36 .280
2003-04 52 NBA PHO 61 21 40 .344
2004-05 53 NBA PHO 82 62 20 .756
2005-06 54 NBA PHO 82 54 28 .659
2006-07 55 NBA PHO 82 61 21 .744
2007-08 56 NBA PHO 82 55 27 .671
2008-09 57 NBA NYK 82 32 50 .390
2009-10 58 NBA NYK 82 29 53 .354
2010-11 59 NBA NYK 82 42 40 .512
2011-12 60 NBA NYK 23 8 15 .348
Career NBA 708 378 330 .534
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.
A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.
D'antoni has no style. He never did.
I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.
"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.
If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.
And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.
I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.
both Nash and Diaw weren't nearly the players they were before getting into MDA's system.
You can talk chicken and egg all you want, but that is fact. MDA's system also benefited from having Nash run it.
I don't know why you would rely on a Biaw comment and call it conclusive evidence without knowing the context of question or answer.
Raving about Nash has nothing to do about NOT raving about something else. Perhaps beat writer asked "what are your thoughts on Nash?"
I agree about both Diaw and Nash putting up better numbers under D'Antoni. I also have thought saying D'Antoni can't win unless he has Nash at the point was a bit simplistic view. My point was that I think it has a bit more credibility after Diaw's comments. Diaw was being asked about his former coach because he had just had a huge game against him. Diaw was the one that brought up playing with Nash. If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.
When MDA 1st got a shot in the NBA he was on a poor team like most new NBA coaches. Rarely do they come into good situations. The 50 games in Denver in his 1st Head coaching job isn't fair to judge him on. The next shot he got he took over for Frank Johnson with the team in free fall and despite his final record the team retained him due to how the young players performed. The next year with Nash and a full Training camp to put in his system he excelled.
Coaches win with talent. When he's had talent and consistency he's won. I have no doubt that he can win here. IF they had a full training camp and SL and a PG to start the season, things would've been better. Not perfect but better. Guys still came in rusty and a bit out of top shape, but the foundation would've been better. Rather than having to rely on an untested Rookie Combo guard to run his system.
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W-L%
1998-99 47 NBA DEN 50 14 36 .280
2003-04 52 NBA PHO 61 21 40 .344
2004-05 53 NBA PHO 82 62 20 .756
2005-06 54 NBA PHO 82 54 28 .659
2006-07 55 NBA PHO 82 61 21 .744
2007-08 56 NBA PHO 82 55 27 .671
2008-09 57 NBA NYK 82 32 50 .390
2009-10 58 NBA NYK 82 29 53 .354
2010-11 59 NBA NYK 82 42 40 .512
2011-12 60 NBA NYK 23 8 15 .348
Career NBA 708 378 330 .534
The Nuggets went from winning 28% of their games with D'Antoni to winning 43% of their games the following year with Issell. There was not significant player movement.
