Knicks · with Lin in the fold how do you NOT extend MDA? (page 2)
Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
GustavBahler wrote:Lets see what kind of a job D'Antoni does in the playoffs. Lin's presence alone shouldn't dictate whether or not D'Antoni stays. It should also be determined by how he matches up against other coaches, especially in the playoffs. Ive seen him outcoached too many times since coming here.Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
Actually, it does. The team, if you listen to them, are all behind MDA. This is a real bonafide team that loves each other. You don't break this team apart. Right now, we only need a backup PG. I would not even get rid of Bibby since I am afraid that you might wreck the chemistry the have developed. You gotta ride this wave and see where it takes us. This is more than once in a lifetime thing that is occurring. This has never happened before.
I mean, I am watching SportsCenter right now and they were doing the Peyton Manning piece and at the end they had Antonio Pierce and the other NFL anaylist chiming in on Linsanity. NBA TV was interviewing LeDouche and Wade and asked them about Jeremy Lin. Wow...just WOW.
franco12 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Jeremy Lin has saved MDA's jobeven clyde last night said that mda should get alot of praise for the having the gusto to play the kid when his job was on the line. lin and mda is a perfect marriage. they fit PERFECTLY for each other.
No offense to you, Clyde or anyone else, but there were a bunch of us here calling for Lin to start- that we had seen flashes in his limited garbage time minutes of being the PG that MDA needs for his system to work.
And much sooner than MDA ever got around to.
I'd give him credit if it happened much sooner.
With nothing to lose fans can call to play a bench player.
"Much sooner"!
ALmost laughable. Chronicle his KNick career and how many practices he had and his conditioning.
His limited minutes in junk time showed little.
MDA, the assistant coaches and trainers all should get credit.
If players were asking him to play and MDA then did so that is credit to the coach and players!
Credit to the Team!
And If MDA is the coach of this team then credit to him!
Anyone who says "No offense to Clyde" as if you knew better is comical. Anyone can say "give the kid a chance, what can it hurt!". Throw a kid into the fray before he is ready and you can ruin him.
NYKBocker wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Lets see what kind of a job D'Antoni does in the playoffs. Lin's presence alone shouldn't dictate whether or not D'Antoni stays. It should also be determined by how he matches up against other coaches, especially in the playoffs. Ive seen him outcoached too many times since coming here.Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
Actually, it does. The team, if you listen to them, are all behind MDA. This is a real bonafide team that loves each other. You don't break this team apart. Right now, we only need a backup PG. I would not even get rid of Bibby since I am afraid that you might wreck the chemistry the have developed. You gotta ride this wave and see where it takes us. This is more than once in a lifetime thing that is occurring. This has never happened before.
I mean, I am watching SportsCenter right now and they were doing the Peyton Manning piece and at the end they had Antonio Pierce and the other NFL anaylist chiming in on Linsanity. NBA TV was interviewing LeDouche and Wade and asked them about Jeremy Lin. Wow...just WOW.
To me that would be like making an important decision on a sugar high. If D'antoni gets outcoached in the playoffs and the Knicks make an early exit, all the good feelings in the world won't matter. I agree we should ride this wave this season and see where it takes us, if we end up smashed against the rocks because the coaching wasn't up to par then I don't really see the point of extending D'Antoni.
I'm open to D'Antoni's contract being extended, just want to give him an entire season to prove he can take this team to the next level and we won't really know that until the playoffs come around.
franco12 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Jeremy Lin has saved MDA's jobeven clyde last night said that mda should get alot of praise for the having the gusto to play the kid when his job was on the line. lin and mda is a perfect marriage. they fit PERFECTLY for each other.
No offense to you, Clyde or anyone else, but there were a bunch of us here calling for Lin to start- that we had seen flashes in his limited garbage time minutes of being the PG that MDA needs for his system to work.
And much sooner than MDA ever got around to.
I'd give him credit if it happened much sooner.
no offense taken and honestly no offense to you, but playing in garbage time isn't worth a whole lot. i know in this kind of situation everyone likes to take claim for the whole "i saw him first" type thing, but watching a guy on tv play in a blowout game isn't the same as being with him in practice, at the games, at shoot-arounds, etc etc.
GustavBahler wrote:NYKBocker wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Lets see what kind of a job D'Antoni does in the playoffs. Lin's presence alone shouldn't dictate whether or not D'Antoni stays. It should also be determined by how he matches up against other coaches, especially in the playoffs. Ive seen him outcoached too many times since coming here.Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
Actually, it does. The team, if you listen to them, are all behind MDA. This is a real bonafide team that loves each other. You don't break this team apart. Right now, we only need a backup PG. I would not even get rid of Bibby since I am afraid that you might wreck the chemistry the have developed. You gotta ride this wave and see where it takes us. This is more than once in a lifetime thing that is occurring. This has never happened before.
I mean, I am watching SportsCenter right now and they were doing the Peyton Manning piece and at the end they had Antonio Pierce and the other NFL anaylist chiming in on Linsanity. NBA TV was interviewing LeDouche and Wade and asked them about Jeremy Lin. Wow...just WOW.
To me that would be like making an important decision on a sugar high. If D'antoni gets outcoached in the playoffs and the Knicks make an early exit, all the good feelings in the world won't matter. I agree we should ride this wave this season and see where it takes us, if we end up smashed against the rocks because the coaching wasn't up to par then I don't really see the point of extending D'Antoni.
I'm open to D'Antoni's contract being extended, just want to give him an entire season to prove he can take this team to the next level and we won't really know that until the playoffs come around.
didn't you just propose the same type of sugar high decision-making by focusing on a couple set of playoff games?
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:NYKBocker wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Lets see what kind of a job D'Antoni does in the playoffs. Lin's presence alone shouldn't dictate whether or not D'Antoni stays. It should also be determined by how he matches up against other coaches, especially in the playoffs. Ive seen him outcoached too many times since coming here.Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
Actually, it does. The team, if you listen to them, are all behind MDA. This is a real bonafide team that loves each other. You don't break this team apart. Right now, we only need a backup PG. I would not even get rid of Bibby since I am afraid that you might wreck the chemistry the have developed. You gotta ride this wave and see where it takes us. This is more than once in a lifetime thing that is occurring. This has never happened before.
I mean, I am watching SportsCenter right now and they were doing the Peyton Manning piece and at the end they had Antonio Pierce and the other NFL anaylist chiming in on Linsanity. NBA TV was interviewing LeDouche and Wade and asked them about Jeremy Lin. Wow...just WOW.
To me that would be like making an important decision on a sugar high. If D'antoni gets outcoached in the playoffs and the Knicks make an early exit, all the good feelings in the world won't matter. I agree we should ride this wave this season and see where it takes us, if we end up smashed against the rocks because the coaching wasn't up to par then I don't really see the point of extending D'Antoni.
I'm open to D'Antoni's contract being extended, just want to give him an entire season to prove he can take this team to the next level and we won't really know that until the playoffs come around.
didn't you just propose the same type of sugar high decision-making by focusing on a couple set of playoff games?
What other metric would you use to evaluate his performance? I'm evaluating D'Antoni not just on this year's playoffs but last year's where D'Antoni was outcoached, and almost 4 seasons as head coach in NY.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:NYKBocker wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Lets see what kind of a job D'Antoni does in the playoffs. Lin's presence alone shouldn't dictate whether or not D'Antoni stays. It should also be determined by how he matches up against other coaches, especially in the playoffs. Ive seen him outcoached too many times since coming here.Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
Actually, it does. The team, if you listen to them, are all behind MDA. This is a real bonafide team that loves each other. You don't break this team apart. Right now, we only need a backup PG. I would not even get rid of Bibby since I am afraid that you might wreck the chemistry the have developed. You gotta ride this wave and see where it takes us. This is more than once in a lifetime thing that is occurring. This has never happened before.
I mean, I am watching SportsCenter right now and they were doing the Peyton Manning piece and at the end they had Antonio Pierce and the other NFL anaylist chiming in on Linsanity. NBA TV was interviewing LeDouche and Wade and asked them about Jeremy Lin. Wow...just WOW.
To me that would be like making an important decision on a sugar high. If D'antoni gets outcoached in the playoffs and the Knicks make an early exit, all the good feelings in the world won't matter. I agree we should ride this wave this season and see where it takes us, if we end up smashed against the rocks because the coaching wasn't up to par then I don't really see the point of extending D'Antoni.
I'm open to D'Antoni's contract being extended, just want to give him an entire season to prove he can take this team to the next level and we won't really know that until the playoffs come around.
didn't you just propose the same type of sugar high decision-making by focusing on a couple set of playoff games?
What other metric would you use to evaluate his performance? I'm evaluating D'Antoni not just on this year's playoffs but last year's where D'Antoni was outcoached, and almost 4 seasons as head coach in NY.
metrics? Situation, growth, what team wants, long term benefits.
All 4 seasons he was out coached? What were your expectations and did he meet, under- or over- perform?
Last year's playoffs? What was the expectation? By all accounts MDA out coached Rivers. Did it equate to wins? No. Should the Knicks have gotten blown out all 4 games, IMHO, yes.
Nalod wrote:franco12 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:Silverfuel wrote:Jeremy Lin has saved MDA's jobeven clyde last night said that mda should get alot of praise for the having the gusto to play the kid when his job was on the line. lin and mda is a perfect marriage. they fit PERFECTLY for each other.
No offense to you, Clyde or anyone else, but there were a bunch of us here calling for Lin to start- that we had seen flashes in his limited garbage time minutes of being the PG that MDA needs for his system to work.
And much sooner than MDA ever got around to.
I'd give him credit if it happened much sooner.
With nothing to lose fans can call to play a bench player.
"Much sooner"!
ALmost laughable. Chronicle his KNick career and how many practices he had and his conditioning.
His limited minutes in junk time showed little.
MDA, the assistant coaches and trainers all should get credit.
If players were asking him to play and MDA then did so that is credit to the coach and players!
Credit to the Team!
And If MDA is the coach of this team then credit to him!
Anyone who says "No offense to Clyde" as if you knew better is comical. Anyone can say "give the kid a chance, what can it hurt!". Throw a kid into the fray before he is ready and you can ruin him.
Briggs called for Lin to start on 1/26. Coaching staff has been watching him since he got here.
MDA got desperate after injuries, and a set back to Baron Davis, and finally played the kid minutes.
What did MDA have to lose? Before he put Lin into the line up, this team was going NOWHERE!
I love the kid, and what he's done to this franchise, but honestly, its kinda pathetic that we've been saved by a guy that was this close to being out of the league and working for work with the rest of us bums.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:NYKBocker wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Lets see what kind of a job D'Antoni does in the playoffs. Lin's presence alone shouldn't dictate whether or not D'Antoni stays. It should also be determined by how he matches up against other coaches, especially in the playoffs. Ive seen him outcoached too many times since coming here.Nothing wrong with taking a wait and see attitude, especially with a shortened season.
Actually, it does. The team, if you listen to them, are all behind MDA. This is a real bonafide team that loves each other. You don't break this team apart. Right now, we only need a backup PG. I would not even get rid of Bibby since I am afraid that you might wreck the chemistry the have developed. You gotta ride this wave and see where it takes us. This is more than once in a lifetime thing that is occurring. This has never happened before.
I mean, I am watching SportsCenter right now and they were doing the Peyton Manning piece and at the end they had Antonio Pierce and the other NFL anaylist chiming in on Linsanity. NBA TV was interviewing LeDouche and Wade and asked them about Jeremy Lin. Wow...just WOW.
To me that would be like making an important decision on a sugar high. If D'antoni gets outcoached in the playoffs and the Knicks make an early exit, all the good feelings in the world won't matter. I agree we should ride this wave this season and see where it takes us, if we end up smashed against the rocks because the coaching wasn't up to par then I don't really see the point of extending D'Antoni.
I'm open to D'Antoni's contract being extended, just want to give him an entire season to prove he can take this team to the next level and we won't really know that until the playoffs come around.
didn't you just propose the same type of sugar high decision-making by focusing on a couple set of playoff games?
What other metric would you use to evaluate his performance? I'm evaluating D'Antoni not just on this year's playoffs but last year's where D'Antoni was outcoached, and almost 4 seasons as head coach in NY.
metrics? Situation, growth, what team wants, long term benefits.
All 4 seasons he was out coached? What were your expectations and did he meet, under- or over- perform?
Last year's playoffs? What was the expectation? By all accounts MDA out coached Rivers. Did it equate to wins? No. Should the Knicks have gotten blown out all 4 games, IMHO, yes.
I agree those things are important, I disagree that its a given that D'Antoni is the man for the job. Not yet.
The expectation in last year's playoffs was that the games would have been closer, sweep or not. Any coach whose team gets swept should not get credit for out coaching anyone.
Not suggesting he got out coached in all 4 years, I was suggesting that I am looking at his entire tenure as coach, not just this year's playoffs.
D'Antoni has been better at calling timeouts this season and I think he's done a better job of managing the roster. That's a big reason why I said we should wait until the end of the season to evaluate him. His performance in this year's playoffs is the last hurdle for me. Doing a better job than he did last year's playoffs would be enough of an improvement for me to say that he should have his contract extended.
But I think it's faulty to think another coach cant continue to get good play out of Lin's and we to tight or hitch to MDA til the end of Lins career.
If Lin is good, a Pick and roll is the same whether is for Mike'D or your local highschool basketball coach.
Anji wrote:Still not a fan................ he definitely atleast has earned a look in the playoffs.But I think it's faulty to think another coach cant continue to get good play out of Lin's and we to tight or hitch to MDA til the end of Lins career.
If Lin is good, a Pick and roll is the same whether is for Mike'D or your local highschool basketball coach.
then why don't other coaches get the offensive efficiency numbers that MDA's teams do? There is something more to it.
martin wrote:Anji wrote:Still not a fan................ he definitely atleast has earned a look in the playoffs.But I think it's faulty to think another coach cant continue to get good play out of Lin's and we to tight or hitch to MDA til the end of Lins career.
If Lin is good, a Pick and roll is the same whether is for Mike'D or your local highschool basketball coach.
then why don't other coaches get the offensive efficiency numbers that MDA's teams do? There is something more to it.
I've had this argument with so many people over the years and they still don't understand. If what MDA does is so simple, then every coach would do it!!! There really aren't a lot of coaches that play it the same way that we do in MDA's system. It's just more complicated than PnR. Yes the basic aspect is running the PnR, but off of that there is a LOT more going on. The purpose of the PnR is different in MDA's system than when other coaches use it. We do more OFF of the PnR than other teams do, because it's only the beginning of a more intricate system of options.
Also there are more plays than just PnR in this offense. The plays only look the same to viewers cuz they aren't seeing the variations unless you slow it down and replay it. MDA has over 100 plays and many variations on each play. So don't think it's all just the same thing. Since i've had the SSOL playbook i've come to understand just how much there is to it and the different ways they execute the offense. It's about reads and the entire team has to see what is happening and read it the same way. But clearly the PG has to be the one that makes it happen.
Look the beauty of it is that MDA teaches it like a dance and there's a rhythm to it that when the players get it, allows them to execute at a very quick pace. They execute faster than the D can keep up and it's very fluid.
martin wrote:Anji wrote:Still not a fan................ he definitely atleast has earned a look in the playoffs.But I think it's faulty to think another coach cant continue to get good play out of Lin's and we to tight or hitch to MDA til the end of Lins career.
If Lin is good, a Pick and roll is the same whether is for Mike'D or your local highschool basketball coach.
then why don't other coaches get the offensive efficiency numbers that MDA's teams do? There is something more to it.
Whether there is something to it or not, I don't really know.
But that argument still doesn't tell that Lin couldn't play for another coach/system giving the same amount of usages or this team needs to be tied to MDA. Because if Offensive efficiency equaled titles he would already have one.
Again I'm not a fan of MDA so take it for what it is worth.
Could a defensive minded coach that ran a pick roll heavy system get 15points and 8 assists out of Lin as a starter??? I think yes. The offensive numbers won't be as high but the overall team would be better imo.
Anji wrote:martin wrote:Anji wrote:Still not a fan................ he definitely atleast has earned a look in the playoffs.But I think it's faulty to think another coach cant continue to get good play out of Lin's and we to tight or hitch to MDA til the end of Lins career.
If Lin is good, a Pick and roll is the same whether is for Mike'D or your local highschool basketball coach.
then why don't other coaches get the offensive efficiency numbers that MDA's teams do? There is something more to it.
Whether there is something to it or not, I don't really know.
But that argument still doesn't tell that Lin couldn't play for another coach/system giving the same amount of usages or this team needs to be tied to MDA. Because if Offensive efficiency equaled titles he would already have one.
Again I'm not a fan of MDA so take it for what it is worth.
Could a defensive minded coach that ran a pick roll heavy system get 15points and 8 assists out of Lin as a starter??? I think yes. The offensive numbers won't be as high but the overall team would be better imo.
Knicks defensive number VERY good this year. Within range of Miami's.
Anji wrote:martin wrote:Anji wrote:Still not a fan................ he definitely atleast has earned a look in the playoffs.But I think it's faulty to think another coach cant continue to get good play out of Lin's and we to tight or hitch to MDA til the end of Lins career.
If Lin is good, a Pick and roll is the same whether is for Mike'D or your local highschool basketball coach.
then why don't other coaches get the offensive efficiency numbers that MDA's teams do? There is something more to it.
Whether there is something to it or not, I don't really know.
But that argument still doesn't tell that Lin couldn't play for another coach/system giving the same amount of usages or this team needs to be tied to MDA. Because if Offensive efficiency equaled titles he would already have one.
Again I'm not a fan of MDA so take it for what it is worth.
Could a defensive minded coach that ran a pick roll heavy system get 15points and 8 assists out of Lin as a starter??? I think yes. The offensive numbers won't be as high but the overall team would be better imo.
What's wrong with the way the team is playing? MDA has gotten more out of guys that aren't that good and it's a proven FACT that MDA maximizes players efficiency. Just look at his players without him and when they play for him and there's litany of guys that have better numbers in his system. Some idiot mentioned how well Nash and STAT played without MDA, but failed to mention that they used the same system and one of MDA's Assistants who had become familiar with the system.
The OVERALL team is playing better now that we have a PG. I've said for years that you need DEFENSIVE players to be a really good defensive team. If you have bad defenders it's hard to be a good defensive team. MDA picked Shump and wanted Jared for a reason!!! We needed better defensive players. Now Glen finally gave Mike what he NEVER had! A defensive Center to anchor the teams D. This is the best of both worlds. We have almost everything we need except consistent perimeter shooting.
I was going to post a thread about who took over MDA's body because the team defensively are doing great things like not switching on every single screen or pick, extending atleast to 25-30 feet out pretty much all game and traping like crazy. We've had the personal to do that pretty much since christmas when JJ2 came back. So am to believe that Lin is the reason for this, that players had their meet of the minds and decided to change??? Or maybe Woodson has had enough time to get to MDA or maybe Mike'D is seeing the light???
Who knows, but I tend to believe it is coming from some where that isn't Mike'D.
I said it before and I'll say it again, dumb luck is no reason to extend this mistake. If you can get the right pieces in place finally, I want someone who can actually drive it and get it to where we want to go. Not someone who's going to just ride in the truck.
Now that we have a true PG to run the ship Phil Jackson would not be the right coach for this team imo. I originally wanted to get Phil in here because I thought he'd be able to easily run the Triangle with shump, melo, amare & chandler. Without needing a prototypical PG. Lin changed EVERYTHING. Any other coaching candidates are not even worth mentioning.
Only thing I'd say is lets see how MDA handles the Melo situation before extending him. Maybe Melo will just fit right in and mike won't even need to worry about it but if Melo is not 100% with the program it will be his job to talk to Melo and change him. Unfortunately its not coaches way or the highway. It's Superstar way or SUV curbside exit interviews.