Knicks · Starting Jorts over Amar'e (page 3)

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lol at above average pf play. What pf's are not playing better? 44% from the field with 3 turnovers, 8 rebounds, less than a block, and no defense at all.

Amare is one of the worst starting PFs on both ends of the court right now.

Exactly. I dont care if hes putting up 17 a game. Anybody can put up points in volume if they jack up enough shots. Hell, we got the prime example in Melo lol. I dont think anybody can name a phase of amare's game thats actually good right now. I'm jealous of antawn jamison!(jk)

tj23 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lol at above average pf play. What pf's are not playing better? 44% from the field with 3 turnovers, 8 rebounds, less than a block, and no defense at all.

Amare is one of the worst starting PFs on both ends of the court right now.

Exactly. I dont care if hes putting up 17 a game. Anybody can put up points in volume if they jack up enough shots. Hell, we got the prime example in Melo lol. I dont think anybody can name a phase of amare's game thats actually good right now. I'm jealous of antawn jamison!(jk)

I like Jamison a lot also. His game would be a great fit at the four for this team. Also, Melo can't guard him and often gets into foul trouble whenever he is up against him.

STAT may not be a good defender but I can't see kicking under the bus like this. The dude isn't playing well, but we've seen this guy lift teams on his back like he did last year for the Knicks. I think all he needs is to get his jumper back. if STAT has his jumper it will open up everything else. I still expect STAT to have a resurgence this year and really we don't even need him to be at 100% beast mode to help us win anymore. If he doesn't come here NONE OF THIS current team is possible.

CrushAlot wrote:

tj23 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lol at above average pf play. What pf's are not playing better? 44% from the field with 3 turnovers, 8 rebounds, less than a block, and no defense at all.

Amare is one of the worst starting PFs on both ends of the court right now.

Exactly. I dont care if hes putting up 17 a game. Anybody can put up points in volume if they jack up enough shots. Hell, we got the prime example in Melo lol. I dont think anybody can name a phase of amare's game thats actually good right now. I'm jealous of antawn jamison!(jk)

I like Jamison a lot also. His game would be a great fit at the four for this team. Also, Melo can't guard him and often gets into foul trouble whenever he is up against him.

I'm pretty sure TJ was being sarcastic. The last thing we need is a PF who is LESS efficient from the floor than Amare!

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tj23 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:Lol at above average pf play. What pf's are not playing better? 44% from the field with 3 turnovers, 8 rebounds, less than a block, and no defense at all.

Amare is one of the worst starting PFs on both ends of the court right now.

Exactly. I dont care if hes putting up 17 a game. Anybody can put up points in volume if they jack up enough shots. Hell, we got the prime example in Melo lol. I dont think anybody can name a phase of amare's game thats actually good right now. I'm jealous of antawn jamison!(jk)

I like Jamison a lot also. His game would be a great fit at the four for this team. Also, Melo can't guard him and often gets into foul trouble whenever he is up against him.

I'm pretty sure TJ was being sarcastic. The last thing we need is a PF who is LESS efficient from the floor than Amare!

Jamison can get Melo to foul him with one fake. He owns him. He also always plays well against the Knicks.

Were deep in the season. Amare doesn't look like he's making a comeback. I honestly say rest him indefinitely. Hell, deactivate him and let him do his usual offseason workouts and preserve him for the future. He's just not the same without his explosiveness.

i think amare is lost and slumping. but he is still a great athlete. it's up to him and the coaching staff to get him going. he's waaaaaaaaay too good when he's on to be shunted-aside. basically the coaching staff just needs to make it clear to him what he needs to do. he'll work it out. i think that the upheaval over the past couple months - this team has changed soooo much - has messed-with amare. i'm excited to see what the knicks look like today with a few practices under their belts. i am quite sure dantoni has some ideas. hopefully he has been able to get some order established this past week.

nixluva wrote:STAT may not be a good defender but I can't see kicking under the bus like this. The dude isn't playing well, but we've seen this guy lift teams on his back like he did last year for the Knicks. I think all he needs is to get his jumper back. if STAT has his jumper it will open up everything else. I still expect STAT to have a resurgence this year and really we don't even need him to be at 100% beast mode to help us win anymore. If he doesn't come here NONE OF THIS current team is possible.

Yes he can do those things. But this not about Amare and what he can do if the planets are aligned again. Your line that IF he gets his jumper back it will open up everything is exactly what is wrong with this line thinking. We already have Novak who can shoot better and plays better D right now and opens things up RIGHT NOW! Why do we need to force feed Amare for 2 quarters for him to get his jumper back and give up double digit leads in the process? How is that useful for the team?

We don't NEED him to carry the team even in the playoffs, our needs have changed and his one dimensional play that has lost its only dimension no longer fits a need.

Having said that I think we still owe him the starting spot for a few minutes and then longer minutes with the second unit as long as he doesn't hurt the flow. Yes he is a big part of us getting this team together and I am not saying we need to write him off. I think he can still get his game back but I don't want us to lose games we should win easily trying to make that happen. Right now he IS hurting the team and needs to go on rehab of some type.

This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:STAT may not be a good defender but I can't see kicking under the bus like this. The dude isn't playing well, but we've seen this guy lift teams on his back like he did last year for the Knicks. I think all he needs is to get his jumper back. if STAT has his jumper it will open up everything else. I still expect STAT to have a resurgence this year and really we don't even need him to be at 100% beast mode to help us win anymore. If he doesn't come here NONE OF THIS current team is possible.

Yes he can do those things. But this not about Amare and what he can do if the planets are aligned again. Your line that IF he gets his jumper back it will open up everything is exactly what is wrong with this line thinking. We already have Novak who can shoot better and plays better D right now and opens things up RIGHT NOW! Why do we need to force feed Amare for 2 quarters for him to get his jumper back and give up double digit leads in the process? How is that useful for the team?

We don't NEED him to carry the team even in the playoffs, our needs have changed and his one dimensional play that has lost its only dimension no longer fits a need.

"When the planets align again" - LOL!

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

It might be better to start him but only play him about 22 mpg unless he starts showing something.

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

Everything you said is true, which is why starting Jorts over Amar'e is not a real consideration.

This is in a vacuum.

It's a pure basketball question, would the team be better starting Jorts or Jeffries over Amar'e? Would it be better on the hardwoods?

We're not bringing all this other stuff into it.

You want my opinion? You start the guy but give him most of his burn with the Second Unit, like loweyecue suggested.

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

That might be true right now but wouldn't you rather possible lose some games because of that right now and have him ready for the playoffs instead of benching him now winning a few games more and not having him ready for the playoffs? Amare has a good track record during the playoffs.

Stevo718 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

That might be true right now but wouldn't you rather possible lose some games because of that right now and have him ready for the playoffs instead of benching him now winning a few games more and not having him ready for the playoffs? Amare has a good track record during the playoffs.

The link you're trying to draw between his role as a starter now and being ready in the playoffs is questionable if not doubtful. If he's healthy, he needs to grow some balls and play tougher. If he's not healthy, then he shouldn't be playing at all since he's not helping us anyway.

Stevo718 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

That might be true right now but wouldn't you rather possible lose some games because of that right now and have him ready for the playoffs instead of benching him now winning a few games more and not having him ready for the playoffs? Amare has a good track record during the playoffs.

NO! We are in eighth place we may not make the effing playoffs if we keep losing. We already wasted half a season on his rehabilitation and have nothing to show for it. I am not big into doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time.

loweyecue wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

That might be true right now but wouldn't you rather possible lose some games because of that right now and have him ready for the playoffs instead of benching him now winning a few games more and not having him ready for the playoffs? Amare has a good track record during the playoffs.

NO! We are in eighth place we may not make the effing playoffs if we keep losing. We already wasted half a season on his rehabilitation and have nothing to show for it. I am not big into doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time.

We are not at the stage where we keep losing, we are winning. This season started when we found a point guard. We are going to pass Phily and we are going to get the 4th seed. We need Amare to be a big part of that. Imagine going up to Hubie Brown and saying, " we aren't happy with Amares production and we are going to bench him for Jorts, what do you think?" He will probably lecture you about basketball for 2 hours. Again this is real basketball, not fantasy. You need to consider players egos and long term ramifications.

BigRedDog wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

That might be true right now but wouldn't you rather possible lose some games because of that right now and have him ready for the playoffs instead of benching him now winning a few games more and not having him ready for the playoffs? Amare has a good track record during the playoffs.

NO! We are in eighth place we may not make the effing playoffs if we keep losing. We already wasted half a season on his rehabilitation and have nothing to show for it. I am not big into doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time.

We are not at the stage where we keep losing, we are winning. This season started when we found a point guard. We are going to pass Phily and we are going to get the 4th seed. We need Amare to be a big part of that. Imagine going up to Hubie Brown and saying, " we aren't happy with Amares production and we are going to bench him for Jorts, what do you think?" He will probably lecture you about basketball for 2 hours. Again this is real basketball, not fantasy. You need to consider players egos and long term ramifications.

I didn't propose we should bench Amare for Jorts, Blob did and I think it was done to initiate conversation by challenging the status quo. We were winning before Amare's return and since then we are actually either 500 or one game below and our playoff appearance is not a foregone conclusion. Considering people's egos makes it real basketball? What are you Sigmund Freud? Real basketball games are won by real players who play as a real team and not based on a collection of past accomplishments. I don't give a rats ass about Amare's ego he gets $100 M for five years and he needs to be ready to do what is best for the team. NO PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN THE TEAM.

It's when fans and media start making basketball decisions that egos come into play.

Hopefully Amare's vow to have a huge second half starts tonight. i know stephen A smith claims he doesn't get enough touches but from what i've seen amare cant hit an open shot or cant defend. Last year amare actually was decent on d he blocked shots and even rebounded

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:This is the difference between playing xbox and real basketball. You just don't bench Amare. He is one of the leaders of the team, respected throuhout the league and for the psyche of the team you don't punish him. He had a bad back injury and really didn't play basketball all summer. He still is rusty. He just had a major trauma in his life and that takes probably 1 full year to recover from. Basketball is his outlet right now and you don't lose him emotionally by benching him. If this team is going to be great it will need Amare to be a big part of that. He is showing flashes of his old self. Maybe you cut down his minutes during the game but you don't embarass him by benching him for Jorts (a rookie!) or Jeffries. He needa to find his game through practice and playing. Come on Man! Whats with you guys, wake the hell up. Do you realy think MDA would do that to Amare.

XBOX Basketball my a$$. The team plays better with better energy and results when is off the floor. How about you star watching some real basketball games first?

That might be true right now but wouldn't you rather possible lose some games because of that right now and have him ready for the playoffs instead of benching him now winning a few games more and not having him ready for the playoffs? Amare has a good track record during the playoffs.

NO! We are in eighth place we may not make the effing playoffs if we keep losing. We already wasted half a season on his rehabilitation and have nothing to show for it. I am not big into doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time.

We are not at the stage where we keep losing, we are winning. This season started when we found a point guard. We are going to pass Phily and we are going to get the 4th seed. We need Amare to be a big part of that. Imagine going up to Hubie Brown and saying, " we aren't happy with Amares production and we are going to bench him for Jorts, what do you think?" He will probably lecture you about basketball for 2 hours. Again this is real basketball, not fantasy. You need to consider players egos and long term ramifications.

I didn't propose we should bench Amare for Jorts, Blob did and I think it was done to initiate conversation by challenging the status quo. We were winning before Amare's return and since then we are actually either 500 or one game below and our playoff appearance is not a foregone conclusion. Considering people's egos makes it real basketball? What are you Sigmund Freud? Real basketball games are won by real players who play as a real team and not based on a collection of past accomplishments. I don't give a rats ass about Amare's ego he gets $100 M for five years and he needs to be ready to do what is best for the team. NO PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN THE TEAM.

It's when fans and media start making basketball decisions that egos come into play.

You know if Jeffries, Jorts, and Novak had gotten all the playing time and Amare was out recovering, we'd probably be around 20-16 or 21-15.