Knicks · Equal Opportunity Offense; is this the way to go? (page 2)
Uptown wrote:Part of the problem is the system and so far, MDA is unwilling to bend, especially since Lin took over. Our offense is predicated on Pick-n-Roll and Drive and Kick. There is no in-between, and Melo's whose game is in-between, 15 feet and in. This system highlights pg's who can penetrate and play pick-n-roll, forwards/centers who can roll to the basket or pick-n-pop and spot up shooters who benefit off the kick. Is it really a coincidence that we usually win when we make a ton of three's and lose when we dont? Melo can hit the three, but he isn't a three point shooter.sure...This is an equal opportunity offense which works when you have players of somewhat equal talent. This team isn't built like that. The likes of Bill Walker and Landry Fields whould never put up the same amount of shots as Stat and Melo. But this offense calls for that on most occasions. Remember the days when teams would feed the hot hand and ride him until he cooled off? The only hot hands we feed are 3 point shooters when they are hot becuase the offense calls for drive and kicks. Its hard to get a rhythm in this offense if you aren't the pg, a spot up shooter or rolling off the pick. Melo is the odd man out in this offense most nights which forces him to get his so to speak. I see Melo getting the ball a ton in spots that aren't so sweet. I see Melo jacking up three's, he took them Denver, but not nearly as much as he is in this system. I'm not seeing the elbow jumper from him as much.
It's up to MDA to bend a little. When Dirk got hot, down the stretch of the game it was iso (theres that word again)city. They fed the hot hand. One quick fix is to run pick and roll with Melo and Lin. We've seen it a couple of times and it worked both times. Melo picked and popped the elbow jumper, but for some reason that play went back into the cooler. Does Melo have to adjust? Sure, but moreso, MDA does aswell. MDA came in with the tag of offensive genius. It's up to him to figure it out and make it work if he's the offensive guru that some thought he was. But if MDA insists on playing this pick-n-roll drive and kick offense, and will not make adjustments to make this work, then Grundwald has to make a decision.
Knicks go 8-1 without Melo. 2-4 with him. How do you change your TEAM concept for one guy? How does that help this team chemisty?
And what is MDA asking Melo to do that has him so lost?
Nalod wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:None in a Knicks uni.
70% he had the Lil' Bow Wow corn rows. Bring them back!
this video was made while he was still in Denver
I think he has something 17 or 18 game winners, some in a Knicks uni. The Memphis game last year comes to mind immediately
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Part of the problem is the system and so far, MDA is unwilling to bend, especially since Lin took over. Our offense is predicated on Pick-n-Roll and Drive and Kick. There is no in-between, and Melo's whose game is in-between, 15 feet and in. This system highlights pg's who can penetrate and play pick-n-roll, forwards/centers who can roll to the basket or pick-n-pop and spot up shooters who benefit off the kick. Is it really a coincidence that we usually win when we make a ton of three's and lose when we dont? Melo can hit the three, but he isn't a three point shooter.sure...This is an equal opportunity offense which works when you have players of somewhat equal talent. This team isn't built like that. The likes of Bill Walker and Landry Fields whould never put up the same amount of shots as Stat and Melo. But this offense calls for that on most occasions. Remember the days when teams would feed the hot hand and ride him until he cooled off? The only hot hands we feed are 3 point shooters when they are hot becuase the offense calls for drive and kicks. Its hard to get a rhythm in this offense if you aren't the pg, a spot up shooter or rolling off the pick. Melo is the odd man out in this offense most nights which forces him to get his so to speak. I see Melo getting the ball a ton in spots that aren't so sweet. I see Melo jacking up three's, he took them Denver, but not nearly as much as he is in this system. I'm not seeing the elbow jumper from him as much.
It's up to MDA to bend a little. When Dirk got hot, down the stretch of the game it was iso (theres that word again)city. They fed the hot hand. One quick fix is to run pick and roll with Melo and Lin. We've seen it a couple of times and it worked both times. Melo picked and popped the elbow jumper, but for some reason that play went back into the cooler. Does Melo have to adjust? Sure, but moreso, MDA does aswell. MDA came in with the tag of offensive genius. It's up to him to figure it out and make it work if he's the offensive guru that some thought he was. But if MDA insists on playing this pick-n-roll drive and kick offense, and will not make adjustments to make this work, then Grundwald has to make a decision.
Knicks go 8-1 without Melo. 2-4 with him. How do you change your TEAM concept for one guy? How does that help this team chemisty?And what is MDA asking Melo to do that has him so lost?
I'm not trying to make excuses for Melo, because he clearly needs to bring his game. But the record isn't all on him. Everyone has seen tape of Lin now. The Knicks are also playing more difficiult opponents now too. I guess my point is there are some external issues on top of the obvious internal ones that Melo needs to iron out
Uptown wrote:his body language is poor and there is zero sense of urgency or humility when he speaks. 8-1 with and 2-4 without Melo and when he's on the floor the ball stops. Whats the solution?KnicksFE wrote:Also our supposedly prime scorer is shooting 39% from the field with a bad attitude while other TRUE SUPERSTARS are having MVP type season so I finding very difficult to believe that it is all MDA. Plus didn’t MDA put the ball in Melo’s hand in the beginning of the season? How did the team do? REALLY BADWhen has Melo displayed a bad attitude this? Lin speaks highly of him as does MDA. Please be specific, with examples of bad attitude
Melo got off to a good start, dropped 37 opening day, and 30 in 3 straight. Got injuried and has struggled to find a consistant rhythym. Yes, he has struggled.
What True Superstars are you speaking of on this team?
It was a bad decision to put the ball in the hands of a pure scorer and ask him to be a facilitator. You wouldn't ask Bernard King or Adrian Dantley to play point forward either.
fishmike wrote:his body language is poor and there is zero sense of urgency or humility when he speaks. 8-1 with and 2-4 without Melo and when he's on the floor the ball stops. Whats the solution?
I never really see the relevance in these kinds of observations. He's got a quirky personality. And who cares if he's humble or not? I've also seen him be the first one running out to greet the second unit and pull together the post-game mid-court huddles.
On the court? Different story. He just needs to flat out perform. If he can consistently get 25, 10 and 5 I don't care if he forces Dolan to build a 50 foot bronze statue of him on the steps of the Garden.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Part of the problem is the system and so far, MDA is unwilling to bend, especially since Lin took over. Our offense is predicated on Pick-n-Roll and Drive and Kick. There is no in-between, and Melo's whose game is in-between, 15 feet and in. This system highlights pg's who can penetrate and play pick-n-roll, forwards/centers who can roll to the basket or pick-n-pop and spot up shooters who benefit off the kick. Is it really a coincidence that we usually win when we make a ton of three's and lose when we dont? Melo can hit the three, but he isn't a three point shooter.sure...This is an equal opportunity offense which works when you have players of somewhat equal talent. This team isn't built like that. The likes of Bill Walker and Landry Fields whould never put up the same amount of shots as Stat and Melo. But this offense calls for that on most occasions. Remember the days when teams would feed the hot hand and ride him until he cooled off? The only hot hands we feed are 3 point shooters when they are hot becuase the offense calls for drive and kicks. Its hard to get a rhythm in this offense if you aren't the pg, a spot up shooter or rolling off the pick. Melo is the odd man out in this offense most nights which forces him to get his so to speak. I see Melo getting the ball a ton in spots that aren't so sweet. I see Melo jacking up three's, he took them Denver, but not nearly as much as he is in this system. I'm not seeing the elbow jumper from him as much.
It's up to MDA to bend a little. When Dirk got hot, down the stretch of the game it was iso (theres that word again)city. They fed the hot hand. One quick fix is to run pick and roll with Melo and Lin. We've seen it a couple of times and it worked both times. Melo picked and popped the elbow jumper, but for some reason that play went back into the cooler. Does Melo have to adjust? Sure, but moreso, MDA does aswell. MDA came in with the tag of offensive genius. It's up to him to figure it out and make it work if he's the offensive guru that some thought he was. But if MDA insists on playing this pick-n-roll drive and kick offense, and will not make adjustments to make this work, then Grundwald has to make a decision.
Knicks go 8-1 without Melo. 2-4 with him. How do you change your TEAM concept for one guy? How does that help this team chemisty?And what is MDA asking Melo to do that has him so lost?
Fish, post like these are beneath you. I would expect a Black-n-White answer from others posters, not you. So basically, we are better with Bill Walker at SF than Melo?
Look at the schedule and teams we beat during our streak. The toughest games we won were at home, before the scouting report was finalized. Do you not notice that teams are playing Lin alot different that they were during the streak? He is being trapped, forced to go left and the lane is being sealed off. Not only that, but the schedule is alot tougher. That JJ, Walker Lin trifecta was not beating the Heat, Celts and Mavs on the road.
Also, Amare missed alot of those games aswell. How does he fit in? And, without Melo, we also lost to the Hornets at home. Whose fault was that?
Uptown wrote:fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Part of the problem is the system and so far, MDA is unwilling to bend, especially since Lin took over. Our offense is predicated on Pick-n-Roll and Drive and Kick. There is no in-between, and Melo's whose game is in-between, 15 feet and in. This system highlights pg's who can penetrate and play pick-n-roll, forwards/centers who can roll to the basket or pick-n-pop and spot up shooters who benefit off the kick. Is it really a coincidence that we usually win when we make a ton of three's and lose when we dont? Melo can hit the three, but he isn't a three point shooter.sure...This is an equal opportunity offense which works when you have players of somewhat equal talent. This team isn't built like that. The likes of Bill Walker and Landry Fields whould never put up the same amount of shots as Stat and Melo. But this offense calls for that on most occasions. Remember the days when teams would feed the hot hand and ride him until he cooled off? The only hot hands we feed are 3 point shooters when they are hot becuase the offense calls for drive and kicks. Its hard to get a rhythm in this offense if you aren't the pg, a spot up shooter or rolling off the pick. Melo is the odd man out in this offense most nights which forces him to get his so to speak. I see Melo getting the ball a ton in spots that aren't so sweet. I see Melo jacking up three's, he took them Denver, but not nearly as much as he is in this system. I'm not seeing the elbow jumper from him as much.
It's up to MDA to bend a little. When Dirk got hot, down the stretch of the game it was iso (theres that word again)city. They fed the hot hand. One quick fix is to run pick and roll with Melo and Lin. We've seen it a couple of times and it worked both times. Melo picked and popped the elbow jumper, but for some reason that play went back into the cooler. Does Melo have to adjust? Sure, but moreso, MDA does aswell. MDA came in with the tag of offensive genius. It's up to him to figure it out and make it work if he's the offensive guru that some thought he was. But if MDA insists on playing this pick-n-roll drive and kick offense, and will not make adjustments to make this work, then Grundwald has to make a decision.
Knicks go 8-1 without Melo. 2-4 with him. How do you change your TEAM concept for one guy? How does that help this team chemisty?And what is MDA asking Melo to do that has him so lost?
Fish, post like these are beneath you. I would expect a Black-n-White answer from others posters, not you. So basically, we are better with Bill Walker at SF than Melo?
Look at the schedule and teams we beat during our streak. The toughest games we won were at home, before the scouting report was finalized. Do you not notice that teams are playing Lin alot different that they were during the streak? He is being trapped, forced to go left and the lane is being sealed off. Not only that, but the schedule is alot tougher. That JJ, Walker Lin trifecta was not beating the Heat, Celts and Mavs on the road.
Also, Amare missed alot of those games aswell. How does he fit in? And, without Melo, we also lost to the Hornets at home. Whose fault was that?
While I must admit that MDA and Lin did speak highly on Carmelo, I believe when things are not going good for the Knicks on the actual games, Melo’s body language is poor and shows lack of patience toward his teammates, as suppose to inspire them to play better and harder, that’s just the way I see it.
Yes, Melo got off to a good start, but the truth is that he is shooting 39% for the season so he must find other ways to contribute and impact the game or the Knicks will go nowhere with their best scorer shooting such a low percentage. And while I understand that Melo was/is hurt, Kobe Bryant is playing with a broken nose right now and he just beat the Heat this past Sunday True Superstars rise to the occasion.
I was not referring to any TRUE SUPERSTART on this team, to me the Knicks don’t have any, at least not yet, I was referring to other players who are having MVP season for their teams and willing their teams to victories.
16.1 turnovers and 30% from 3 as a team will lead to more losses vs quality comp. Real simple if we want to win games commit less turn overs and make teams pay for packing in the paint.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:his body language is poor and there is zero sense of urgency or humility when he speaks. 8-1 with and 2-4 without Melo and when he's on the floor the ball stops. Whats the solution?KnicksFE wrote:Also our supposedly prime scorer is shooting 39% from the field with a bad attitude while other TRUE SUPERSTARS are having MVP type season so I finding very difficult to believe that it is all MDA. Plus didn’t MDA put the ball in Melo’s hand in the beginning of the season? How did the team do? REALLY BADWhen has Melo displayed a bad attitude this? Lin speaks highly of him as does MDA. Please be specific, with examples of bad attitude
Melo got off to a good start, dropped 37 opening day, and 30 in 3 straight. Got injuried and has struggled to find a consistant rhythym. Yes, he has struggled.
What True Superstars are you speaking of on this team?
It was a bad decision to put the ball in the hands of a pure scorer and ask him to be a facilitator. You wouldn't ask Bernard King or Adrian Dantley to play point forward either.
It's things like you mention that made Denver fans happy to see him goodbye.
newyorknewyork wrote:Cut down on turnovers(Ranked 29th) and make our 3s(Ranked like 27th) and we win more games.16.1 turnovers and 30% from 3 as a team will lead to more losses vs quality comp. Real simple if we want to win games commit less turn overs and make teams pay for packing in the paint.
That's what i've been saying too. It's a real simple solution. The floor isn't open cuz teams realize that we can't shoot from the perimeter, except for Novak. Fields, Melo, Shump, JR, Baron all have stunk from the perimeter. We can't win like that. This is why Lin has been having problems. He has no room to operate.
nixluva wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Cut down on turnovers(Ranked 29th) and make our 3s(Ranked like 27th) and we win more games.16.1 turnovers and 30% from 3 as a team will lead to more losses vs quality comp. Real simple if we want to win games commit less turn overs and make teams pay for packing in the paint.
That's what i've been saying too. It's a real simple solution. The floor isn't open cuz teams realize that we can't shoot from the perimeter, except for Novak. Fields, Melo, Shump, JR, Baron all have stunk from the perimeter. We can't win like that. This is why Lin has been having problems. He has no room to operate.
really the only 'major' change I would like to see Pringles impliment is to take the greenlight on threes away for the majority of the roster. take the shot but dribble up a little. the turnovers don't bother me as much because the team is being aggressive. errors of aggression are better than simply just failing to execute on offense (a la the mid-to-late 90s Knicks)
It worked in Europe!
BasketballJones wrote:Europe is a clown.
I am laughing so hard I turtled!
7:31 Amare Stoudemire enters the game for Steve Novak 84-87
7:31
6:50 Carmelo Anthony misses 17-foot jumper 84-89
6:48
6:01 New York full timeout
6:01 Landry Fields enters the game for Baron Davis 84-91
6:01
5:46 Jeremy Lin misses 19-foot jumper 84-91
5:45
5:20 Tyson Chandler defensive rebound 84-91
5:09 Amare Stoudemire makes 19-foot jumper (Jeremy Lin assists) 86-91
4:50 86-91 Joakim Noah bad pass (Jeremy Lin steals)
4:33 86-91 Kyle Korver shooting foul (Jeremy Lin draws the foul)
4:33 Jeremy Lin makes free throw 1 of 2 87-91
4:33 Jeremy Lin makes free throw 2 of 2 88-91
4:16
4:00 Jeremy Lin misses 14-foot two point shot 88-93
3:57 Jeremy Lin offensive rebound 88-93
3:53 Landry Fields misses 21-foot jumper 88-93
3:11 88-95 Joakim Noah shooting foul (Tyson Chandler draws the foul)
3:11 Tyson Chandler misses free throw 1 of 2 88-95
3:11 New York offensive team rebound 88-95
3:11 Tyson Chandler misses free throw 2 of 2 88-95
3:06 Tyson Chandler offensive rebound 88-95
3:04 Landry Fields makes 1-foot two point shot 90-95
2:46
2:45 Tyson Chandler defensive rebound 90-95
2:42 Jeremy Lin bad pass (Jimmy Butler steals) 90-95
2:19
2:17 Landry Fields defensive rebound 90-95
2:06 Joakim Noah blocks Amare Stoudemire's layup 90-95
2:06 Chicago full timeout
2:06 New York defensive team rebound 90-95
2:06 90-95 Jumpball: Amare Stoudemire vs. Joakim Noah (Derrick Rose gains possession)
2:00 90-97 Derrick Rose makes driving layup
1:50 Jeremy Lin misses driving layup 90-97
1:49
1:37 Carmelo Anthony personal foul (Derrick Rose draws the foul) 90-97
1:37
1:22 Amare Stoudemire misses 17-foot jumper 90-99
1:21
0:54 Tyson Chandler makes driving layup (Jeremy Lin assists) 92-99
0:54 Chicago full timeout
0:54 92-99 5 sec inbound turnover
0:49 Carmelo Anthony makes 25-foot three point jumper 95-99
0:49 Chicago 20 Sec. timeout
0:49
0:48 Carmelo Anthony personal foul (Kyle Korver draws the foul) 95-99
0:48
0:32 Carmelo Anthony misses 29-foot three point jumper 95-100
0:31 Landry Fields offensive rebound 95-100
0:29 Landry Fields misses 8-foot jumper 95-100
0:26 Carmelo Anthony misses two point shot 95-100
0:26 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 95-100
0:25 Carmelo Anthony misses tip shot 95-100
0:25 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 95-100
0:23
0:21 Landry Fields kicked ball 95-100
0:21
0:21 Iman Shumpert enters the game for Jeremy Lin 95-100
0:19 Iman Shumpert personal foul (Kyle Korver draws the foul) 95-100
0:19
0:19 New York full timeout
0:19 Jeremy Lin enters the game for Iman Shumpert 95-102
0:19
0:13 Carmelo Anthony misses 14-foot jumper 95-102
0:09 95-102 Ronnie Brewer bad pass (Landry Fields steals)
0:07 Carmelo Anthony makes 13-foot jumper (Landry Fields assists) 97-102
0:05 97-104 Taj Gibson makes slam dunk (Joakim Noah assists)
0:05 New York 20 Sec. timeout
0:02 Landry Fields makes driving layup (Amare Stoudemire assists) 99-104
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game
nixluva wrote:I think there's a tendency to overstate issues like this. These are all the possession for the Knicks once STAT re-entered the game. I think you'll see that it's not like STAT an Melo weren't getting shots. They had maybe two instances where they could've gotten the ball to STAT or Melo rather than Lin or Fields. It wasn't a lot as you make is seem.7:31 Amare Stoudemire enters the game for Steve Novak 84-87
7:31
6:50 Carmelo Anthony misses 17-foot jumper 84-89
6:48
6:01 New York full timeout
6:01 Landry Fields enters the game for Baron Davis 84-91
6:01
5:46 Jeremy Lin misses 19-foot jumper 84-91
5:45
5:20 Tyson Chandler defensive rebound 84-91
5:09 Amare Stoudemire makes 19-foot jumper (Jeremy Lin assists) 86-91
4:50 86-91 Joakim Noah bad pass (Jeremy Lin steals)
4:33 86-91 Kyle Korver shooting foul (Jeremy Lin draws the foul)
4:33 Jeremy Lin makes free throw 1 of 2 87-91
4:33 Jeremy Lin makes free throw 2 of 2 88-91
4:16
4:00 Jeremy Lin misses 14-foot two point shot 88-93
3:57 Jeremy Lin offensive rebound 88-93
3:53 Landry Fields misses 21-foot jumper 88-93
3:11 88-95 Joakim Noah shooting foul (Tyson Chandler draws the foul)
3:11 Tyson Chandler misses free throw 1 of 2 88-95
3:11 New York offensive team rebound 88-95
3:11 Tyson Chandler misses free throw 2 of 2 88-95
3:06 Tyson Chandler offensive rebound 88-95
3:04 Landry Fields makes 1-foot two point shot 90-95
2:46
2:45 Tyson Chandler defensive rebound 90-95
2:42 Jeremy Lin bad pass (Jimmy Butler steals) 90-95
2:19
2:17 Landry Fields defensive rebound 90-95
2:06 Joakim Noah blocks Amare Stoudemire's layup 90-95
2:06 Chicago full timeout
2:06 New York defensive team rebound 90-95
2:06 90-95 Jumpball: Amare Stoudemire vs. Joakim Noah (Derrick Rose gains possession)
2:00 90-97 Derrick Rose makes driving layup
1:50 Jeremy Lin misses driving layup 90-97
1:49
1:37 Carmelo Anthony personal foul (Derrick Rose draws the foul) 90-97
1:37
1:22 Amare Stoudemire misses 17-foot jumper 90-99
1:21
0:54 Tyson Chandler makes driving layup (Jeremy Lin assists) 92-99
0:54 Chicago full timeout
0:54 92-99 5 sec inbound turnover
0:49 Carmelo Anthony makes 25-foot three point jumper 95-99
0:49 Chicago 20 Sec. timeout
0:49
0:48 Carmelo Anthony personal foul (Kyle Korver draws the foul) 95-99
0:48
0:32 Carmelo Anthony misses 29-foot three point jumper 95-100
0:31 Landry Fields offensive rebound 95-100
0:29 Landry Fields misses 8-foot jumper 95-100
0:26 Carmelo Anthony misses two point shot 95-100
0:26 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 95-100
0:25 Carmelo Anthony misses tip shot 95-100
0:25 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound 95-100
0:23
0:21 Landry Fields kicked ball 95-100
0:21
0:21 Iman Shumpert enters the game for Jeremy Lin 95-100
0:19 Iman Shumpert personal foul (Kyle Korver draws the foul) 95-100
0:19
0:19 New York full timeout
0:19 Jeremy Lin enters the game for Iman Shumpert 95-102
0:19
0:13 Carmelo Anthony misses 14-foot jumper 95-102
0:09 95-102 Ronnie Brewer bad pass (Landry Fields steals)
0:07 Carmelo Anthony makes 13-foot jumper (Landry Fields assists) 97-102
0:05 97-104 Taj Gibson makes slam dunk (Joakim Noah assists)
0:05 New York 20 Sec. timeout
0:02 Landry Fields makes driving layup (Amare Stoudemire assists) 99-104
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game
Nixluva is a clown!
mrKnickShot wrote:BasketballJones wrote:Europe is a clown.I am laughing so hard I turtled!
I'm not sure what that is, but I hope you're okay. Be safe.
BasketballJones wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:BasketballJones wrote:Europe is a clown.I am laughing so hard I turtled!
I'm not sure what that is, but I hope you're okay. Be safe.
Its when your sh1t comes out for a brief hello and quickly returns to safety 