Uptown wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:CrushAlot wrote:He's basically right but for 9 games it felt like the 90's again and that was amazing. This team seems a lot more like the team that was 8-15 and struggling to have any kind of flow on offense.
our fanbase is so desperate for a winner I think everyone was pretending that a nine game streak was the way it was going to be moving forward
Remember the infamous 6 game win streak under Larry Brown and fans were going beserk?
yep.. I swear, Knicks fans yell "BUY!!" and "SELL!!" more than traders on the floor of the NYSE
Uptown wrote:markvmc wrote:Now we're taking Bill Simmons as an authority on the Knicks? Things must be bad.
No, just the message, not so much the messenger. What do you disagree with in the article?
I'd actually disagree with/question quite a lot of it.
A. Saying we're not struggling because of one factor, but rather because of a distinct factor seems simplistic. Yes, the schedule got harder, but Melo and Amare are definitely hurting us too. It's not like we didn't beat any good teams in their absence.
B. I don't know what a "pure scorer" is supposed to be. I know what an efficient scorer is, and I know what a volume shooter is, but "pure scorer"?
C. Simmons obviously doesn't listen to many Knick fans beyond any complaints about Anthony, because there are in fact many people on this planet who would gladly reverse the trade if given a chance.
D. Being disappointed with Anthony's play is quite compatible with being disappointed with Stat's play. (Gee, Bill, really? Stat's not playing so well this season?).
E. It's precisely because the last few years were so miserable that Knick fans are impatient now. We basically tanked for two years to get good free agents. We had a plan, and a guy to implement it, and then James Dolan stepped in, showing us that no GM is ever going to be allowed implement a plan with complete authority. End result, we deliberately sucked for two years (following non-deliberately sucking for 8) in order to end up as a team that might make .500 and squeak in for a one and done, if we're lucky.
nixluva wrote:I don't hate Melo or feel he needs to be traded, but one thing I do want is for him to play MOST of the game within the system and do like most stars do and rise when the team needs it. Dirk plays within the system and then when his team needs him to close out qtrs and games he does. It's not rocket science. He doesn't have to dominate the ball during the middle of the game.
Dirk was 1-8 in the first half against us. At the start of the second half, he isoed 4 times in a row and got on a hot streak. Conversely, Melo started 2-8 FG and was largely ignored in the second half.
At least "in the offense" for Dallas, Dirk gets the ball in his goddamn sweet spot and goes to work. But Melo touches the ball within 15 feet and apparently Knicks' fans cringe. gtfo with that nonsense.
markvmc wrote:Uptown wrote:markvmc wrote:Now we're taking Bill Simmons as an authority on the Knicks? Things must be bad.
No, just the message, not so much the messenger. What do you disagree with in the article?
I'd actually disagree with/question quite a lot of it.
A. Saying we're not struggling because of one factor, but rather because of a distinct factor seems simplistic. Yes, the schedule got harder, but Melo and Amare are definitely hurting us too. It's not like we didn't beat any good teams in their absence.
B. I don't know what a "pure scorer" is supposed to be. I know what an efficient scorer is, and I know what a volume shooter is, but "pure scorer"?
C. Simmons obviously doesn't listen to many Knick fans beyond any complaints about Anthony, because there are in fact many people on this planet who would gladly reverse the trade if given a chance.
D. Being disappointed with Anthony's play is quite compatible with being disappointed with Stat's play. (Gee, Bill, really? Stat's not playing so well this season?).
E. It's precisely because the last few years were so miserable that Knick fans are impatient now. We basically tanked for two years to get good free agents. We had a plan, and a guy to implement it, and then James Dolan stepped in, showing us that no GM is ever going to be allowed implement a plan with complete authority. End result, we deliberately sucked for two years (following non-deliberately sucking for 8) in order to end up as a team that might make .500 and squeak in for a one and done, if we're lucky.
If you look closer at the schedule, you'd realize it got harder because we faced much better defensive teams, on the road no less. Heat, Celts, Mavs and Spurs are all top 10 defensive teams that specialize in taking you out of your comfort zones and taking away your specialties, so to speak. All of these teams took away Lin and the pick and roll by trapping him, forcing him left, and clogging the lane which prevented him fromo getting to the rim as he was able to do in previous games. Also, what team did we beat on the road during our streak that is as good as the Heat, Mavs, Spurs or Celts?
As for asking the fans how they felt about the trade, I think it was a bit of hyperbole by Simmons when says 'anyone on the planet'. But he could have easily said, any basketball guy that is paid to make decisions with his head and not his heart.
This story isn't written yet. There is still time for this team to come together and find a way to mesh. I think they'll eventually figure it out. I think there's too much talent to not eventually find a rhythm.
markvmc wrote:Uptown wrote:markvmc wrote:Now we're taking Bill Simmons as an authority on the Knicks? Things must be bad.
No, just the message, not so much the messenger. What do you disagree with in the article?
I'd actually disagree with/question quite a lot of it.
A. Saying we're not struggling because of one factor, but rather because of a distinct factor seems simplistic. Yes, the schedule got harder, but Melo and Amare are definitely hurting us too. It's not like we didn't beat any good teams in their absence.
B. I don't know what a "pure scorer" is supposed to be. I know what an efficient scorer is, and I know what a volume shooter is, but "pure scorer"?
C. Simmons obviously doesn't listen to many Knick fans beyond any complaints about Anthony, because there are in fact many people on this planet who would gladly reverse the trade if given a chance.
D. Being disappointed with Anthony's play is quite compatible with being disappointed with Stat's play. (Gee, Bill, really? Stat's not playing so well this season?).
E. It's precisely because the last few years were so miserable that Knick fans are impatient now. We basically tanked for two years to get good free agents. We had a plan, and a guy to implement it, and then James Dolan stepped in, showing us that no GM is ever going to be allowed implement a plan with complete authority. End result, we deliberately sucked for two years (following non-deliberately sucking for 8) in order to end up as a team that might make .500 and squeak in for a one and done, if we're lucky.
Papabear Says
I think that this is Melo's team and much respect to Lin in those 7 or 8 games Melo has had 7 years proving he can score. All of this I believe is hurting Melo's game. He will get better. New York is a tough place to play. If you have 10 bad game they are willing to throw you under the bus. Give me Melo , Amare, and Chandler They will make it work. Melo know that without defense this team ain't going anywhere. So Melo will have a break out game soon and will take over this team.
airchibundo507 wrote:nixluva wrote:I don't hate Melo or feel he needs to be traded, but one thing I do want is for him to play MOST of the game within the system and do like most stars do and rise when the team needs it. Dirk plays within the system and then when his team needs him to close out qtrs and games he does. It's not rocket science. He doesn't have to dominate the ball during the middle of the game.
Dirk was 1-8 in the first half against us. At the start of the second half, he isoed 4 times in a row and got on a hot streak. Conversely, Melo started 2-8 FG and was largely ignored in the second half.
At least "in the offense" for Dallas, Dirk gets the ball in his goddamn sweet spot and goes to work. But Melo touches the ball within 15 feet and apparently Knicks' fans cringe. gtfo with that nonsense.
What's your point exactly? Yea the Mavs wanted to get Dirk going and went to him specifically. The Knicks have done that for Melo and for most of the season he's failed to come thru. Don't make it about one game when it's clear that it's an ongoing situation. If Melo had been getting it done on a regular basis no one would be carrying on when he goes ISO.
But didn't we suck before Jeremy came, then Melo got hurt, we started winning, then Melo came back and now we suck again?
Still hope we can put this together. Still love my Knicks and I still think MDA came make this work.
Its funny all the melo nuthuggers always say "wait and see" and melo is gonna bring the knciks to the title game yet all he does is lose. However when melo is hurt we seem to win. And stop saying its against bad teams because we won against dallas and lakers. also correct me if im wrong but doesn't melo seem to lose and the shitty teams as well?
Plus we lose to bad teams when Melo is playin. At least we were beating the teams we need to beat when he was out!
I Like Simmons a lot.
I want to believe.
Tonite I DVR'd the game and put it on at late. Fell asleep and missed 3qtrs. In time to see last minute.
I am better off not watching all the games. I have seen all but 3 this season. Too many.
Its no fun.
Tune in or tune out.
I love Simmons' writing and usually agree with him, but not this time.
Opposing teams are better, but that isn't the reason we are losing now. This Bucks game was the perfect example.
Melo might be one of the best closers in the game, but Simmons fails to see that unlike other NBA teams that can do with 2 or 3 stars and win, we depend on team play to get our system going and set ourselves in position to win. It has to happen on O and D.
Melo and Amar'e came back and simply their style of play killed our system. Melo need Iso. Melo needs the ball in his hands and won't give it back. That takes power from Lin. That hurts offensive flow. That makes us lose.
Amar'e? He simply plays horrible defense, which has killed all the progress we had there. Its amazing how a single guy like Chandler improved our D, motivating everyone. But a guy like Amar'e, with his lack of effort, kills it.
I know its easy to simply point fingers at them, but its just the way I see it. Had they not returned, Im pretty sure Linsanity would still live, because Lin represents everything our two stars aren't: humble team player who gives his heart out on D and truly wants to lead the team and elevate the game of those around him. Yeah, guys were willing to go anywhere following Lin.
Now? They no longer know where to go.
Airball three...
Two failed box outs...
Missed the first free throw...
Again, nothing to do with system or his "sweet spot" or Mike D'Antoni. That's lousy play.
Carmelo killed Linsanity.
soundcrib wrote:Airball three...
Two failed box outs...
Missed the first free throw...Again, nothing to do with system or his "sweet spot" or Mike D'Antoni. That's lousy play.
Carmelo killed Linsanity.
He also killed the ball movement and selfless play. 2-6 now with Melo back?
Thank god we have the articles written by Boston media to make us feel better
fishmike wrote:soundcrib wrote:Airball three...
Two failed box outs...
Missed the first free throw...Again, nothing to do with system or his "sweet spot" or Mike D'Antoni. That's lousy play.
Carmelo killed Linsanity.
He also killed the ball movement and selfless play. 2-6 now with Melo back?
Thank god we have the articles written by Boston media to make us feel better
I don't think I've seen Melo pass one time when he sees a double team coming. He sees the double coming, dribbles so he can jack off his shot, and bricks it more often than not.
That isn't smart basketball.
Jordan would bait the double team, and pass to the open man.
I was holding out hope that Melo would figure it out. But he seems to be extremely stubborn and selfish at the same time. I don't buy that this has anything to do with coaching or even the rest of the players not having chemistry worth him. In 7 games he was out our chemistry peaked, 7 games after his return we look like the old dysfunctional Knicks.
Amare is much worse. I can't think of one player outside of Marbury that I disliked seeing more in a Knicks uniform. It's not that he can't play defense he makes a conscious choice not to. I loathe him for this.
The team is at a point where it has to choose to stay with MDA and winning team ball or stay with these selfish giant egos and implement some half court grinding offense that will peak around 90 points a game with Melo and Stat taking 55 shots and making 20.
We can continue to fantasize that Melo will give a damn about team ball or Amare will play defense. But in reality these things will never really happen.
loweyecue wrote:I was holding out hope that Melo would figure it out. But he seems to be extremely stubborn and selfish at the same time. I don't buy that this has anything to do with coaching or even the rest of the players not having chemistry worth him. In 7 games he was out our chemistry peaked, 7 games after his return we look like the old dysfunctional Knicks. Amare is much worse. I can't think of one player outside of Marbury that I disliked seeing more in a Knicks uniform. It's not that he can't play defense he makes a conscious choice not to. I loathe him for this.
The team is at a point where it has to choose to stay with MDA and winning team ball or stay with these selfish giant egos and implement some half court grinding offense that will peak around 90 points a game with Melo and Stat taking 55 shots and making 20.
We can continue to fantasize that Melo will give a damn about team ball or Amare will play defense. But in reality these things will never really happen.
These are the times when you question the teams manifest which prefers the buzz and cashflow of a starphuch catering to the casual fan and corp. sponsor.
Building a winning tradition starts at the top.
Need I say more?
I'll give the Russian credit, he might not have achieved his goal but he has not backed himself into a corner.
He comes out with Deron and Dwight into the Borough he wins.
Knicks are testing my patience. We coming up on 40 years with few and far between good seasons.
Nalod wrote:loweyecue wrote:I was holding out hope that Melo would figure it out. But he seems to be extremely stubborn and selfish at the same time. I don't buy that this has anything to do with coaching or even the rest of the players not having chemistry worth him. In 7 games he was out our chemistry peaked, 7 games after his return we look like the old dysfunctional Knicks. Amare is much worse. I can't think of one player outside of Marbury that I disliked seeing more in a Knicks uniform. It's not that he can't play defense he makes a conscious choice not to. I loathe him for this.
The team is at a point where it has to choose to stay with MDA and winning team ball or stay with these selfish giant egos and implement some half court grinding offense that will peak around 90 points a game with Melo and Stat taking 55 shots and making 20.
We can continue to fantasize that Melo will give a damn about team ball or Amare will play defense. But in reality these things will never really happen.
These are the times when you question the teams manifest which prefers the buzz and cashflow of a starphuch catering to the casual fan and corp. sponsor.
Building a winning tradition starts at the top.
Need I say more?
I'll give the Russian credit, he might not have achieved his goal but he has not backed himself into a corner.
He comes out with Deron and Dwight into the Borough he wins.
Knicks are testing my patience. We coming up on 40 years with few and far between good seasons.
Don't give the Russian credit yet. Deron got him by balls right now. If he and Dwight land in Dallas, a VERY distinct possibility with Dirk and which they are almost assured multiple WCF appearances with OKC, New Jersey will be a ghost town for another 5 years minimum.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:loweyecue wrote:I was holding out hope that Melo would figure it out. But he seems to be extremely stubborn and selfish at the same time. I don't buy that this has anything to do with coaching or even the rest of the players not having chemistry worth him. In 7 games he was out our chemistry peaked, 7 games after his return we look like the old dysfunctional Knicks. Amare is much worse. I can't think of one player outside of Marbury that I disliked seeing more in a Knicks uniform. It's not that he can't play defense he makes a conscious choice not to. I loathe him for this.
The team is at a point where it has to choose to stay with MDA and winning team ball or stay with these selfish giant egos and implement some half court grinding offense that will peak around 90 points a game with Melo and Stat taking 55 shots and making 20.
We can continue to fantasize that Melo will give a damn about team ball or Amare will play defense. But in reality these things will never really happen.
These are the times when you question the teams manifest which prefers the buzz and cashflow of a starphuch catering to the casual fan and corp. sponsor.
Building a winning tradition starts at the top.
Need I say more?
I'll give the Russian credit, he might not have achieved his goal but he has not backed himself into a corner.
He comes out with Deron and Dwight into the Borough he wins.
Knicks are testing my patience. We coming up on 40 years with few and far between good seasons.
Don't give the Russian credit yet. Deron got him by balls right now. If he and Dwight land in Dallas, a VERY distinct possibility with Dirk and which they are almost assured multiple WCF appearances with OKC, New Jersey will be a ghost town for another 5 years minimum.
Your right martin although ive heard taht dwight wants to go to brooklyn but deron is from dallas so that may happen
Sunday could get really ugly at the garden. Melo's going to hear it.
