Knicks · Lin (page 1)

Lin's play has declined--not to a destructive point--but what looked special now looks good to mediocre. However I do think he can be an 16-8 47% % PG (somewhere between Linsanity and what we see now)on a very good team--certainly as good as any PG we have known in modern Knick times aka after Clyde and Michael Ray Richardson. He's not playing as freely--he looks stuck in the ground--which has affected his play---his J looks off his drives lack the vigor we saw and TO's that were tolerable when he was bringing 22-9 have become irritant. He needs to regain his confidence in his J and than make the open one's. Hitting the J opens up his game--that brings in the headfake and wider lanes. The minute both Amare and Carmelo came back--the lanes in the post closed off. Lin hasnt been the same guy-and to his credit he's been adjusting although we have seen the downside of adjustment.

What I would like to see from the Knicks is a 40 minute commitment to Lin--IF Lin can give back games where TO's are now tolerable/valuing the ball(meaning less than 4) he gets back his C in his jumpshot and subsequent drive--he looks pass first and doesnt look for a homerun pass unless its wide open. He has to play lin with controlled aggresion--hes not doing that right now--hes not bad--but hes not Linsane right now.

Besides the TOs I just want to see him not hesitate on the open shot. Also he needs to develop the push shot this offseason. He has good enough touch I think. Look at Rose Parker, Mark Jackson, and etc they develop that shot to combat the closed lane.

This kid is really good and of he was surrounded by shooters the MDA would prefer you'd see just how good he can be. Lin is still a babe in his development and it's impressive what he can do. Do you even realize how hard it is to run a team with this many talented players is??? He's got STAT and Melo staring him down and a Championship Center plus a bunch of other guys.

Teams have put a bounty out on this kid the way they've focused on him! PG's throughout the league are going all out to test or embarrass him. Plus he's got all of Asia on his back. I'd rather see this kid stay and be the face of the team than either of our 2 Stars. This kid can be special if we gave him the keys and put the shooters around him like they did Nash.

This is a good subject.

StephenA, ranted yesterday that Lin is just an average player. I disagree. I think he is above average. He has exceptional intelligence. He has good athleticism. These 2 things alone will make him decent. What is missing with the team now and thus, Lin's game is the other players on the court. When he ran the show and the team looked for him to do it, he had the confidence and it was working. As the "stars" came back, they have, little by little, imposed their will on the team. Lin has tried to fit them in but its not working. That is not his fault but he is feeling the pressure and thus his confidence is shaken, so his shots are not falling now. It is making him average. A kid like Lin and his story, needs the confidence to push him to his best. Right now its missing a bit and we are seeing it.

If the superstars on this team were truly "super", Lin's confidence would have grown upon their return.

All that being said, his stats are settling into the range of 15 ppg, 8apg, 4rpg. If we knew at the beginning of the year that the Knicks would have a PG able to get those stats every night, we would have been elated. How could they lose, we'd all would have been asking! Well, they lose and they lose too much!

Lin can be the starting PG on a winning team, IMO. Does he need to work on a few things? Yes,of course. Steve Nash was not Steve Nash his first 5 years in the league. Derek Rose was not MVP his first year. It takes time but the skills are there and we all know the drive is there.

he had a bit of a hero complex going late in the game and tat was one of the big reasons the team lost

Clearly Lin has come back down, but that appears to be due to defensive adjustments more than anything & I think he will get to the line even more next year as Refs slowly start making more calls.

That said he is burned out and I think something that is being left out of the equation is that Lin is all of 23 years old. The kid has already adjusted and is only going to get better. How much more can teams adjust against hime? Triple team traps?

He played quite welL against Rose. Once the team starts to play better around him (well that has started actually) his play will improve even more.

The one big thing I worry about is the next coach. For Lin to succeed he needs an open system.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote: Steve Nash was not Steve Nash his first 5 years in the league. Derek Rose was not MVP his first year. It takes time but the skills are there and we all know the drive is there.

I saw a commercial last night, during the Knicks game, that had Nash talking about his debut in Dallas where he missed his first 8 shots and the crowd booed him. But Nash said "I will stick through this because I am the man", and eventually they will cheer him!

Lin showed balls of steel when they were chanting "over-rated" last night. He drilled those free-throws like nothing.

Lin has been overcoming hatred since 1988.

Lin is like David Lee - where you know next year he will come back even stronger, turn a weakness into a strength, etc.

I agree as it seems that Melo and Stat back have had a 'bad' influence on him. MDA needs to coach him to 'be the man again' and that might help.

I also thought last night we saw some adjustments that were long over due, as far as having Melo & Stat work within the team concept.

franco12 wrote:Lin is like David Lee - where you know next year he will come back even stronger, turn a weakness into a strength, etc.

Nice Analogy!

Lets see....including the coming out party versus the Nets on February, Lin has played 18 games. His rankings versus the full year Stats for other NBA Stats leaders are as follows:

This is not average. Last night Lin had 14 or 15 points on 11 shots. The headlines will talk about how Rose scored 32 points. Trust me...I ain't comparing Lin to Rose...but Rose took freakin' 29 shots last night to get his 32 points. I am sure a ton of the missed shots resulted in Offensive Rebounds and put backs. That is what happens when you take it to the hole and don't worry about your shooting percentage and feeding egos. He will lose some of the battles, but that is how teams win the game WAR. That is how the Knicks were winning before.

Asst/Game - 8.5 - 3rd
Steals/GAme - 2.4 2nd
Points/Game - 20.4 13th
Turnover/Game - 4.8 1st

Lin's in an unenviable position right now. We know he's an intelligent guy and we know that he knows that he has to feed the stars that we have. But I also think he's trying to play the system that D'Antoni is trying to put in. And this is where the conflict develops. People will ask "why doesn't he just drop it to Melo in the post?"

That's not D'Antoni's system. (I'm not saying D'Antooni's system is right; just that it's the system Lin is trying to play). So he's now trying to work this thing out. Now if we disagree on not feeding Melo or Stat enough, that's on D'Antoni. Lin, after all, is a 23 year old pt guard, and he's just listening to his coach.

RoyBatty wrote:Lin's in an unenviable position right now. We know he's an intelligent guy and we know that he knows that he has to feed the stars that we have. But I also think he's trying to play the system that D'Antoni is trying to put in. And this is where the conflict develops. People will ask "why doesn't he just drop it to Melo in the post?"

That's not D'Antoni's system. (I'm not saying D'Antooni's system is right; just that it's the system Lin is trying to play). So he's now trying to work this thing out. Now if we disagree on not feeding Melo or Stat enough, that's on D'Antoni. Lin, after all, is a 23 year old pt guard, and he's just listening to his coach.

but I thought last night they had made some clear adjustments, and were using Melo and Stat within the system. I thought they played PNR with Melo and Lin for what seemed like the first time - or at least, the first time they ran it somewhat effectively.

I really think MDA ought to put one of Melo or Stat to the bench, and start Jorts or someone else- maybe Iman if you want to go small.

I think Lin is tired this is the first time in a long time that he has played this much. Hopefully he has a second wind as far as being hesitant lets not fool ourselves he has been jacking shots at a pretty good rate. Only thing wrong with the Knicks is defense and rebounding, fix that and you fix the Knicks. Would like to see more zone to cover up some weaknesses on defense especially Amare's. I have noticed that Amare is better playing in space where he reacts than man to man. He gets more blocks and is more around the ball in zone. Lin would be better off also he is weak defensively. Melo actually plays decent defense watch the next game with unbiased eyes he rebounds the ball where as Amare stares at the ball.

BRIGGS, your observations are usually astute and well-considered. But you omit some important details about Lin.

1. Every other team in the league is trying to show him up right now because of the media induced "Linsanity" coverage. A good part of his "decline" is based on that fact alone.

2. During the "Linsanity" stretch we were playing sub-par teams. Against great teams he is not going to play as well because the circumstances will be tougher.

3. Stat wasn't playing for most of that same stretch, and Melo wasn't playing at all. When they came back full time, Lin had to adjust to a non-MDA, ball-stopping, ISO game every time Melo got the ball. That has a dramatic effect on reducing the effectiveness of the MDA offense. That's not on Lin at all.

4. He has reduced his turnover numbers (e.g., 3 against the Bulls' top-ranked defense and best PG in a generation in D-Rose.

Vmart, you noticed that too. Amare's reaction to many things is not instinctive, especially on defense, which puzzles me considering how long he's been playing as a forward/center.

Moonangie wrote:BRIGGS, your observations are usually astute and well-considered. But you omit some important details about Lin.

1. Every other team in the league is trying to show him up right now because of the media induced "Linsanity" coverage. A good part of his "decline" is based on that fact alone.

2. During the "Linsanity" stretch we were playing sub-par teams. Against great teams he is not going to play as well because the circumstances will be tougher.

3. Stat wasn't playing for most of that same stretch, and Melo wasn't playing at all. When they came back full time, Lin had to adjust to a non-MDA, ball-stopping, ISO game every time Melo got the ball. That has a dramatic effect on reducing the effectiveness of the MDA offense. That's not on Lin at all.

4. He has reduced his turnover numbers (e.g., 3 against the Bulls' top-ranked defense and best PG in a generation in D-Rose.

I really disagree with number 3. Those other guys were playing well because teams took them lightly. With Amare and Melo they basically cling to their shirts up and down the floor at all times reputation does that just ask Lin. You guys are picking on the best players on the team but I want you guys to watch the role players see what they do. Fields should be having a field day out there same with Chandler. Lin might be the only one doing his role on the offensive side. On the defensive side this is on Amare he has to rebound that is all effort he shows no effort on defense. On the bright side though he did up his blocks last game if you can take it as that.

RoyBatty wrote:Lin's in an unenviable position right now. We know he's an intelligent guy and we know that he knows that he has to feed the stars that we have. But I also think he's trying to play the system that D'Antoni is trying to put in. And this is where the conflict develops. People will ask "why doesn't he just drop it to Melo in the post?"

That's not D'Antoni's system. (I'm not saying D'Antooni's system is right; just that it's the system Lin is trying to play). So he's now trying to work this thing out. Now if we disagree on not feeding Melo or Stat enough, that's on D'Antoni. Lin, after all, is a 23 year old pt guard, and he's just listening to his coach.

that's what's going on right now. MDA and Melo is not a good mix and Lin is stuck in the middle. something's gotta give. either melo buys in or we keep losing and MDA gets fired.

can there be a happy medium? maybe but that's going to take some self reflection on Melo and a change of coaching philosophy on MDA—and that's not happening anytime soon.

if anyone is to blame, it's our genius owner Dolan who didn't have the foresight to know that Melo and MDA would not gel.

SlimChin wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:Lin's in an unenviable position right now. We know he's an intelligent guy and we know that he knows that he has to feed the stars that we have. But I also think he's trying to play the system that D'Antoni is trying to put in. And this is where the conflict develops. People will ask "why doesn't he just drop it to Melo in the post?"

That's not D'Antoni's system. (I'm not saying D'Antooni's system is right; just that it's the system Lin is trying to play). So he's now trying to work this thing out. Now if we disagree on not feeding Melo or Stat enough, that's on D'Antoni. Lin, after all, is a 23 year old pt guard, and he's just listening to his coach.

that's what's going on right now. MDA and Melo is not a good mix and Lin is stuck in the middle. something's gotta give. either melo buys in or we keep losing and MDA gets fired.

can there be a happy medium? maybe but that's going to take some self reflection on Melo and a change of coaching philosophy on MDA—and that's not happening anytime soon.

if anyone is to blame, it's our genius owner Dolan who didn't have the foresight to know that Melo and MDA would not gel.

I think our owner was told that Melo and D'Antoni had a high probability of failing. I guess in his mind it's harder to get great talent on your roster than find a great coach. After D'Antoni is finished we'll see if Melo/STAT/Lin can work with a guy like Jax. One hting is for sure, Tyson Chandler is our MVP and can play for anyone. Can't teach heart.

Moonangie wrote:BRIGGS, your observations are usually astute and well-considered. But you omit some important details about Lin.

1. Every other team in the league is trying to show him up right now because of the media induced "Linsanity" coverage. A good part of his "decline" is based on that fact alone.

2. During the "Linsanity" stretch we were playing sub-par teams. Against great teams he is not going to play as well because the circumstances will be tougher.

3. Stat wasn't playing for most of that same stretch, and Melo wasn't playing at all. When they came back full time, Lin had to adjust to a non-MDA, ball-stopping, ISO game every time Melo got the ball. That has a dramatic effect on reducing the effectiveness of the MDA offense. That's not on Lin at all.

4. He has reduced his turnover numbers (e.g., 3 against the Bulls' top-ranked defense and best PG in a generation in D-Rose.

I think the basic point that I was trying to make is that he was a player somewhere between the 22-9-5 stuff he was putting up (and still has all the ability in the world to do that at times) and some of the poorer games hes had--I think something around 16-8 47%.. I would actually like to see him playing pure PG without Baron Davis in there I like Baron as a 10 minute guy with Lin playing 38--thats how it should be going forward--give Lee the ball if he plays the right way--i.e valuing the ball yet with the same intensity he played with at his peak play--than we have a really good player thats a keeper .

MSG3 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:Lin's in an unenviable position right now. We know he's an intelligent guy and we know that he knows that he has to feed the stars that we have. But I also think he's trying to play the system that D'Antoni is trying to put in. And this is where the conflict develops. People will ask "why doesn't he just drop it to Melo in the post?"

That's not D'Antoni's system. (I'm not saying D'Antooni's system is right; just that it's the system Lin is trying to play). So he's now trying to work this thing out. Now if we disagree on not feeding Melo or Stat enough, that's on D'Antoni. Lin, after all, is a 23 year old pt guard, and he's just listening to his coach.

that's what's going on right now. MDA and Melo is not a good mix and Lin is stuck in the middle. something's gotta give. either melo buys in or we keep losing and MDA gets fired.

can there be a happy medium? maybe but that's going to take some self reflection on Melo and a change of coaching philosophy on MDA—and that's not happening anytime soon.

if anyone is to blame, it's our genius owner Dolan who didn't have the foresight to know that Melo and MDA would not gel.

I think our owner was told that Melo and D'Antoni had a high probability of failing. I guess in his mind it's harder to get great talent on your roster than find a great coach. After D'Antoni is finished we'll see if Melo/STAT/Lin can work with a guy like Jax. One hting is for sure, Tyson Chandler is our MVP and can play for anyone. Can't teach heart.

bigtime

fishmike wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:Lin's in an unenviable position right now. We know he's an intelligent guy and we know that he knows that he has to feed the stars that we have. But I also think he's trying to play the system that D'Antoni is trying to put in. And this is where the conflict develops. People will ask "why doesn't he just drop it to Melo in the post?"

That's not D'Antoni's system. (I'm not saying D'Antooni's system is right; just that it's the system Lin is trying to play). So he's now trying to work this thing out. Now if we disagree on not feeding Melo or Stat enough, that's on D'Antoni. Lin, after all, is a 23 year old pt guard, and he's just listening to his coach.

that's what's going on right now. MDA and Melo is not a good mix and Lin is stuck in the middle. something's gotta give. either melo buys in or we keep losing and MDA gets fired.

can there be a happy medium? maybe but that's going to take some self reflection on Melo and a change of coaching philosophy on MDA—and that's not happening anytime soon.

if anyone is to blame, it's our genius owner Dolan who didn't have the foresight to know that Melo and MDA would not gel.

I think our owner was told that Melo and D'Antoni had a high probability of failing. I guess in his mind it's harder to get great talent on your roster than find a great coach. After D'Antoni is finished we'll see if Melo/STAT/Lin can work with a guy like Jax. One hting is for sure, Tyson Chandler is our MVP and can play for anyone. Can't teach heart.

bigtime

just finished talking to a coworker about that... he's got his limitations but I have no problem having Chandler be a key contributor because of his heart, leadership, and work ethic. If the entire team played like him, the record could be the same but I'd feel a lot differently about the season