Knicks · Report: Carmelo vs D'Antoni (page 2)

Rookie @ 3/13/2012 4:18 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Rookie wrote:wow, bermen managed to make national headlines two days in a row. Can't wait for tomorrow to see what he writes next

my money is on him having an unnamed source who can identify JFK's true assassin

k...got his source now...bermen always writes "According to a source familiar with the situation" ...k, so that's that guy from Jersey Shore...and it's someone close to him so...his source is Snookie!

Rofl, almost spilled my coffee

according to sources close to the situation...bermen is father of the Jersey spore...Snookie's love child

mase14 @ 3/13/2012 4:21 PM
exactly uptown for 4 years we have had the same results with this coach.We start the season losing we then go a run win like 8 in a row then lose 10 more and the only constant is MDA. BTW MELO has never lost 6 in arow before coming to the knicks
mase14 @ 3/13/2012 4:25 PM
Before linsanity there was duhonsanity then feltonsanity
Nalod @ 3/13/2012 4:25 PM
Uptown wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

So a 121 and 167 is not a big enough sample size for MDA?

I hear you and we can debate this all day long.

I really don't feel the roster stability was ever there.

If you had buy in with those players, MDA could have done better.

The first two years to me are throw away years. Sure mistakes are made, but all teams make them.

Team under walsh was to open space for Lebron.

Dolan is like a kid who is given money to go buy their favorite toy. When at the toy store he finds the toy is sold out. Rather than wait for a new shipment, he has to buy a toy that day. In a few weeks, he regrets not having the toy he really wanted.

Melo is not Lebron but he paid max money for Melo.

Back to your question about sample size being enough? I just think he did a lousy job with a lousy team.

Take out the first 13 games last year and the last few weeks when Gallo-Mozzy-Felton-Chandler were kind of staring down a trade and became nervous you have a good team getting better and better. Look at Linsanity and how good a guy like Fields gets when ball movment. Then look at Melos skill set which is very high but it stops the ball too many times.

This is not about x's and O's, this is about buy in. AMare does look quick again and playing better the last 5 games. Baron and JR can't shoot at the moment. JJ is not in to play defense.

These are the issues. Its all doable but Melo is a big factor. Its really simple, catch the ball and either shoot it, pass it, or put the ball on the floor, move yoru ass to pass or shoot. Stopping and squaring up is a killer. It a killer for amare and for Melo.

It has its time and place.

mase14 @ 3/13/2012 4:28 PM
So nalod why doesn't melo get a pass,he hasn't even been here a full season,is it because of gallo?
mrKnickShot @ 3/13/2012 4:46 PM
Good Points. My contentions:

Nalod wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

So a 121 and 167 is not a big enough sample size for MDA?

I hear you and we can debate this all day long.

I really don't feel the roster stability was ever there. WILL THERE EVER BE A STABLE ROSTER HERE? I'D SAY NO - SO WHO MDA THE BEST COACH FOR AN UNSTABLE ROSTER?

If you had buy in with those players, MDA could have done better. THIS IS CHICKEN OR EGG - PERHAPS IF PLAYER FIT INTO SYSTEM THEY WOULD BUY IN

The first two years to me are throw away years. Sure mistakes are made, but all teams make them. FAIR ENOUGH - IF FOLLOWING YEARS DID NOT HAVE FOLLOW UP EXCUSES

Team under walsh was to open space for Lebron. DEFINITELY TRUE. SUX HOW THAT TURNED OUT - I WILL HATE HIS TALENTS FOREVER!!

Dolan is like a kid who is given money to go buy their favorite toy. When at the toy store he finds the toy is sold out. Rather than wait for a new shipment, he has to buy a toy that day. In a few weeks, he regrets not having the toy he really wanted. REALLY? YOU THING DOLAN IS BAD - JUST KIDDING!!

Melo is not Lebron but he paid max money for Melo. TRUE - WE GOT SCREWED WITH MELO/STAT VS LEBRON/ANYONE

Back to your question about sample size being enough? I just think he did a lousy job with a lousy team. TELL THAT TO PAUL WETPHAL OR ANY COACH THAT GETS FIRED THAT HAS A WEAK SQUAD - ALOT WEAKER THAN OUR SQUAD!!

Take out the first 13 games last year and the last few weeks when Gallo-Mozzy-Felton-Chandler were kind of staring down a trade and became nervous THIS EXCUSE CAN BE USED FOR MELO AS WELL - YOU DON'T THINK HE FEELS THE PRESSURE OF NOT FITTING INTO THE SYSTEM AND PLAYING WORSE BECAUSE OF IT?

you have a good team getting better and better. Look at Linsanity and how good a guy like Fields gets when ball movment. Then look at Melos skill set which is very high but it stops the ball too many times. WATCH KOBE - THE BALL STOPS ALL THE TIME IN ISO LAND - IT JUST DOES NOT FIT HERE

This is not about x's and O's, this is about buy in. AMare does look quick again and playing better the last 5 games. Baron and JR can't shoot at the moment. JJ is not in to play defense. WOULD BE NICE BUT IT WILL BE HARD TO GET MELO TO BUY INTO A SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT SUIT HIM - AS IT WOULD KOBE/DURANT/ETC ...

These are the issues. Its all doable but Melo is a big factor. Its really simple, catch the ball and either shoot it, pass it, or put the ball on the floor, move yoru ass to pass or shoot. Stopping and squaring up is a killer. It a killer for amare and for Melo. YOU ARE TRYING TO ASK MELO TO PLAY OUT OF HIS ELEMENT - SAME POINT AS BEFORE

It has its time and place.

Basically, I agree that Melo is a horrible fit here. So, what is easier trading him or not resigning MDA? I am all for trading him but it won't happen. I want to see PJax coach this team and I think he will get the most out of all of them. I love how all the MDAers are saying "I am not that impressed with PJAx he had all the great players" - that is complete ignorance and quite comical. If Pjax fails with this crew - than I eat crow.

Thats just my opinion.

CrushAlot @ 3/13/2012 8:43 PM
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

I have heard some talk about Nate coming to NY. The Knicks keep the clout that goes along with having an Olympic assistant.
GustavBahler @ 3/13/2012 8:57 PM
Enough blame to go around but in the end the question is who is more easily replaced? I haven't seen anything in the last 4 years that has shown that MDA is more valuable to this team than one of the best scorers in this league. I'm still in favor of giving D'Antoni until the end of the season to make a case for a contract extension, but right now I don't see that happening.
Anji @ 3/13/2012 10:26 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

I have heard some talk about Nate coming to NY. The Knicks keep the clout that goes along with having an Olympic assistant.

LOL

That almost went past me.........

Nalod @ 3/13/2012 10:46 PM
mase14 wrote:So nalod why doesn't melo get a pass,he hasn't even been here a full season,is it because of gallo?

Naw, Im over Gallo. Denver and the knicks have made way too many changes to compare Knuggs and Knicks. Too much time.

Melo not here a year? Its now about a full season. I don't really harp on last season. That boston series was not winnable given our roster. Melo gets a pass.

Actually I have thought melo is really trying and to me its not his stats that are telling. Its just not working.

I suspect melo lasts longer than MDA.

Good point about "roster ever being stable". If thats true as hit has been for 10 years, we'll just keep grinding down good coach's into stumps and bringing in new ones.

Uptown @ 3/13/2012 10:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

I have heard some talk about Nate coming to NY. The Knicks keep the clout that goes along with having an Olympic assistant.

Whats ironic is Nate was hired as the defacto-defensive coach for the olympic team while MDA is suppsed to be the offensive guru/Euro guy. A coach like Nate would be a great fit here as he would put defense at the top of the priority list and he plays to his stars strengths. It was Brandon Roys team before the injuries now the offense goes through Aldridge. This is also a coach he gets the most out of his players in a tough western conference. Those teams was always riddled with injuries and he still keeps them afloat.

Nalod @ 3/13/2012 10:54 PM
funny, I really think if Nate was in NY with the job he did in pOrtland with all those expecations we have run him out of town as we are with MDA. Idiot owner, bad luck injuries all get him a pass.

but the grass is always greener. Skills was the darling two years ago. Who's next, we gonna pine over Vinnie Del Negro next?

Don't laugh, but you know Flip Saunders is gonna be mentioned.

Why? Cuz the dude can coach. He can't coach morons. Nobody can.

mrKnickShot @ 3/13/2012 10:56 PM
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

I have heard some talk about Nate coming to NY. The Knicks keep the clout that goes along with having an Olympic assistant.

Whats ironic is Nate was hired as the defacto-defensive coach for the olympic team while MDA is suppsed to be the offensive guru/Euro guy. A coach like Nate would be a great fit here as he would put defense at the top of the priority list and he plays to his stars strengths. It was Brandon Roys team before the injuries now the offense goes through Aldridge. This is also a coach he gets the most out of his players in a tough western conference. Those teams was always riddled with injuries and he still keeps them afloat.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentar...

While the Portland Trail Blazers coach is not the Hollywood type, the show his team is putting on -- despite 14 starting lineups because of injuries -- is pretty impressive. That's why, when the NBA hands out its Oscars at the end of the season, McMillan should win coach of the year.

And MDA defenders keep talking about all the changes the poor guy had to deal with.

Nalod @ 3/13/2012 10:56 PM
Speaking of Nate, MDA gets a pass cuz he had to coach "Golden" Nate Robinson.
Uptown @ 3/13/2012 10:57 PM
Nalod wrote:funny, I really think if Nate was in NY with the job he did in pOrtland with all those expecations we have run him out of town as we are with MDA. Idiot owner, bad luck injuries all get him a pass.

but the grass is always greener. Skills was the darling two years ago. Who's next, we gonna pine over Vinnie Del Negro next?

Don't laugh, but you know Flip Saunders is gonna be mentioned.

Why? Cuz the dude can coach. He can't coach morons. Nobody can.

The difference with Nate is that despite the bad-luck injuries, he still mnanaged to overachieve and get his teams into the playoffs in a much tougher western conference.

Nalod @ 3/13/2012 10:59 PM
Uptown wrote:
Nalod wrote:funny, I really think if Nate was in NY with the job he did in pOrtland with all those expecations we have run him out of town as we are with MDA. Idiot owner, bad luck injuries all get him a pass.

but the grass is always greener. Skills was the darling two years ago. Who's next, we gonna pine over Vinnie Del Negro next?

Don't laugh, but you know Flip Saunders is gonna be mentioned.

Why? Cuz the dude can coach. He can't coach morons. Nobody can.

The difference with Nate is that despite the bad-luck injuries, he still mnanaged to overachieve and get his teams into the playoffs in a much tougher western conference.

Knicks made playoffs last year. MDA has a brain dead owner. POrtland likes to burn thru Gm's.

Maybe Nate is a better coach for a dysfunctional owner! If so, bring him!

VDesai @ 3/13/2012 11:04 PM
I'm not particularly happy with either guy at this point. I do believe we can win a lot of games with D'Antoni. I don't see how we can win a lot of games with Melo right now. We'd have to re-do the roster to some degree.
nixluva @ 3/13/2012 11:11 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

I have heard some talk about Nate coming to NY. The Knicks keep the clout that goes along with having an Olympic assistant.

Whats ironic is Nate was hired as the defacto-defensive coach for the olympic team while MDA is suppsed to be the offensive guru/Euro guy. A coach like Nate would be a great fit here as he would put defense at the top of the priority list and he plays to his stars strengths. It was Brandon Roys team before the injuries now the offense goes through Aldridge. This is also a coach he gets the most out of his players in a tough western conference. Those teams was always riddled with injuries and he still keeps them afloat.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentar...

While the Portland Trail Blazers coach is not the Hollywood type, the show his team is putting on -- despite 14 starting lineups because of injuries -- is pretty impressive. That's why, when the NBA hands out its Oscars at the end of the season, McMillan should win coach of the year.

And MDA defenders keep talking about all the changes the poor guy had to deal with.

You think that mention of 14 starting lineups compares to the over 65 actual ROSTER changes MDA has had? You can play a ton of starting lineup combinations and still have the same roster or many of the key guys still playing. Just ask Larry Brown. Besides that really isn't the issue anyway. The Western Conference was tougher when D'Antoni was winning 60 games and getting to the WCF's twice!!! Nate is a good coach, but I see no real advantage he has over MDA for his career.

mrKnickShot @ 3/13/2012 11:27 PM
nixluva wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Maybe we need a 10 game stretch where MDA takes some time off.

See how the team does.

Then we see who goes?

We got samples with and without Melo.

Don't worry. MDA will be in Portland next year.

I have heard some talk about Nate coming to NY. The Knicks keep the clout that goes along with having an Olympic assistant.

Whats ironic is Nate was hired as the defacto-defensive coach for the olympic team while MDA is suppsed to be the offensive guru/Euro guy. A coach like Nate would be a great fit here as he would put defense at the top of the priority list and he plays to his stars strengths. It was Brandon Roys team before the injuries now the offense goes through Aldridge. This is also a coach he gets the most out of his players in a tough western conference. Those teams was always riddled with injuries and he still keeps them afloat.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentar...

While the Portland Trail Blazers coach is not the Hollywood type, the show his team is putting on -- despite 14 starting lineups because of injuries -- is pretty impressive. That's why, when the NBA hands out its Oscars at the end of the season, McMillan should win coach of the year.

And MDA defenders keep talking about all the changes the poor guy had to deal with.

You think that mention of 14 starting lineups compares to the over 65 actual ROSTER changes MDA has had? You can play a ton of starting lineup combinations and still have the same roster or many of the key guys still playing. Just ask Larry Brown. Besides that really isn't the issue anyway. The Western Conference was tougher when D'Antoni was winning 60 games and getting to the WCF's twice!!! Nate is a good coach, but I see no real advantage he has over MDA for his career.

In all seriousness. I do agree. I do not want Nate over MDA. While I don't think MDA is doing a good job here, he is still a better coach than many - especially offensively with being able to make average players play very good basketball players.

I would like to see more people on this board blame both him and Melo for this disaster since they both deserve blame. MDA is playing the power struggle game and even if he is right or partially right, will not help this team and can cost him his job.

At least I'm willing to blame both. I am a centrist in politics as well - I hate partisan bull sh1t with mindless pundits who just spew and spew crap just to make it meet their alliance.

If we trade Melo/Chandler for DHoward/Turk - I have no problem with that. If we keep him, MDA must go. I personally think the latter will happen and if it does, I don't want the Nate McCmillans and alike, I want someone with Rings and Rings is the only thing that has enough clout here. And believe me, through the years, nobody hate PJax more then me (being a knick killer) but I respect him and I respect what he can do. Can he change things around here? I don't know but he has the best chance (and resume) to do it.

Popovitch is okay too. Would love him here.

nixluva @ 3/13/2012 11:58 PM
I doubt it highly that Melo will be traded. I don't think his value is as high as it once was. We have to hope this team can get on a roll and secure a playoff birth. There's still a chance for this group to play better. They've got some more winnable games coming up where they might build back some of their confidence again.
Avengers @ 3/14/2012 2:32 AM
2 ESPN Stories:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7684157/mike-dantoni-lost-new-york-knicks-locker-room-according-sources

D'Antoni has lost the locker room; Anthony tuning out Lin and the offense

By Chris Broussard:

After a remarkable Jeremy Lin-led run that made them the toast of the NBA, the Knicks have lost 8 of their last 10 games. There's plenty of blame to go around, but while some within the organization are questioning superstar Carmelo Anthony, most of the fingers are being pointed at head coach Mike D'Antoni, according to several sources close to the situation.

D'Antoni, hailed as an offensive genius during his successful tenure in Phoenix, has lost the Knicks' locker room, the sources say.

"The players like Mike as a person," one source said. "They think he's a good guy. But he doesn't have the respect of the team anymore."

In addition to questioning D'Antoni, players are complaining about playing time, and confused about the offensive and defensive schemes.

It is lost on no one that the Knicks' free-fall coincides precisely with the return of Anthony. While Anthony was out with a groin injury, the Knicks won 6 of 7 games, including victories over the Los Angeles Lakers and defending champion Dallas Mavericks. With Lin leading D'Antoni's offense, the Knicks played fast and free, spacing the floor, hitting the open man, and even improving defensively.

But the day Anthony returned, the Knicks lost to the struggling New Jersey Nets, starting a sorry stretch that has washed away all the feel-good emotions of Lin's emergence and left them on the verge of missing the playoffs.

Management, the coaching staff and the players know Anthony is hurting the offense and in turn, the defensive morale, according to the sources. While D'Antoni's offense calls for Anthony to plant himself on the wing at the 3-point line, he often creeps in to his favorite spot in the floor -- the area between the elbow, the arc and the post. That kills the Knicks' ability to run the high pick-and-roll and ruins the spacing that is so critical to D'Antoni's offense.

"That's at the very core of our problem," one person close to the situation said. "That messes up the fluidity of the offense. Melo could do it, but he's got to trust the offense."

When Anthony first returned -- and it still appears to be the case -- Lin would bring the ball up court and try to run D'Antoni's system. When Anthony would abandon the offense, Lin would not pass him the ball, which irritated Anthony, sources said. So when Lin tried to talk to Anthony on the court, Anthony would turn his back to the point guard and tune him out. The two never had heated exchanges, though, and the players tried to come to a compromise, agreeing to run D'Antoni's system while also mixing in post-ups for Anthony.

"But it's just a mess because D'Antoni's system is not designed for that," one source said.

Despite his often poor body language, many of the players believe Anthony is trying to adjust and sincerely wants to win. He has told people close to him that he is being asked to do things he's never done, saying that throughout his career he has always had plenty of post-up opportunities and that he is uncomfortable standing on the wing spacing the floor.

"Half the team is trying to do what coach says, and the other half is doing something different," one source said. "Then it spills over to the defensive end because players are (ticked) off about somebody taking a bad shot."

With Anthony sapping the energy from the offense, the players often lose their incentive to play defense. Anthony knows what to do defensively, but simply refuses to do it consistently, the sources said.

Some players believe D'Antoni had the leverage to force Anthony to adjust to his system when he first returned from injury. The Knicks were rolling, showing they could win without Anthony, and their fan base was believing in D'Antoni's system. If D'Antoni had checked Anthony, perhaps even benching him, when he strayed from the offense, the players and fans would have been behind the coach and Anthony would have had no choice but to conform. But D'Antoni, ever the one to avoid confrontation with his players, would not do it, and now it's too late. That's when he lost the locker room for good.

On top of that, Baron Davis, who just returned from a back injury, is unhappy with his limited role as Lin's backup. Davis, averaging just 17 minutes a game, has already spoken to D'Antoni about giving him more playing time, according to the sources. While Lin wants to run D'Antoni's system, Davis is more in line with running the offense through Anthony and Stoudemire, the sources said.

"The only way this is going to work is if we have a coach that will hold Melo accountable and teach Melo, Amare and Jeremy how to play winning basketball," a source said.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7683000/new-york-knicks-carmelo-anthony-pushing-mike-dantoni-door


Anthony pushing D'Antoni out the door

By Johnette Howard:

It doesn't take much reading between the lines to notice Carmelo Anthony giving New York Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni a stronger shove toward the door as the team's current losing streak ticked up to five, then six games.

D'Antoni looks like a goner, all right. But Anthony officially made himself a deserving scapegoat in the past few days, too, by behaving like a player on the verge of checking out until a new coach checks in.

After the Knicks' lackluster effort in Sunday's rout by the Philadelphia 76ers, the way they were embarrassingly out-rebounded by a shorthanded Chicago Bulls team Monday, the latest installment in this losing streak is on the players and not D'Antoni for a change. Anthony exposed that he has a lot to learn about leadership -- real leadership -- after the way he acted during Monday's five-point loss to the Bulls by refusing to join D'Antoni's timeout huddle at one point, waving a hand and complaining on the court when Landry Fields didn't feed him the ball on a fourth-quarter possession, and then saying after the game, "I can't go through this myself."

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