MSG3 wrote:I'm not naive enough to think everything was all rosey with Melo and MDA. But before last season with the trade hanging over Denvers head, how many times was Melo perceived as a bad locker room guy or a coach killer?I genuinely believe that Melo really wanted a strong head figure and MDA wasn't providing that stregth. Think of the guys he's played for. Boeheim, Karl, Coach K in the olympics. I think Melo's problem was that nothing was clicking for the team and he was getting frustrated because the coach wasn't fixing it. Maybe vociing displeasure or showing that frustration was the most leadership any one had given in the last month.
It's only been 3 games and this is all moot if these guys revert back to the way they were playing before. But what's done is done. I'm of the opinion that Melo desperately wants to win. He just has to have that burning desire within him for the rest of his career. That passion to win and do whatever it takes so far is what's seperated him from guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, etc....
This reminds me of when Melo said after a game that he would talk to Amare about 'how to get him more involved.' Couldn't help but wonder why Melo would take that responsiblity onto himself and where MDA was in all of this.
Nalod wrote:Why is he a Captain?Needs a "strong personality" but is thought of as a team leader.
MSG just fabricated some propaganda to humanize him a bit.
LIke I have said for years, they just gonna tell fans what they want to hear.
What is interesting is in the three games he is shooting less, passing more and playing defense.
I still don't get what is going on with the team other than reducing Lin's touchs a bit.
Is this all about "personality" and a grown man having to hold a guy making 5-10-15-20 million dollars "accountable" like an AAU team?
Nalod, the teams playing defense with alot more intensity and Woody being the new coach, first, they all want to impress him and second, they want to be on his good side cause he'll come at you.
A 20 million dollar player still need a coach to push him/them and hold them accountable. Money makes you lazier not less lazy.
Nalod wrote:Why is he a Captain?Needs a "strong personality" but is thought of as a team leader.
MSG just fabricated some propaganda to humanize him a bit.
LIke I have said for years, they just gonna tell fans what they want to hear.
What is interesting is in the three games he is shooting less, passing more and playing defense.
I still don't get what is going on with the team other than reducing Lin's touchs a bit.
Is this all about "personality" and a grown man having to hold a guy making 5-10-15-20 million dollars "accountable" like an AAU team?
Wrong! Its not about a grown man having to hold a guy making 20 million accountable, its about a COACH, actually coaching the team and holding HIS players accountable. Coaches always make less than the star players so what does salary have to do with it?
Alvin Gentry makes far less than his star players and is virtually a no-name in the coaching ranks, yet he the b
lls to bench Stat for not defending the way he wanted him to while he was still in Phoenix. Coach the team.
You want to know whats changed? How about Defense and Rebounding now being at the top of the priority list (instead of offensive floor spacing), and Accountability being the word-choice of the rest of the season.
Uptown wrote:MSG3 wrote:I'm not naive enough to think everything was all rosey with Melo and MDA. But before last season with the trade hanging over Denvers head, how many times was Melo perceived as a bad locker room guy or a coach killer?I genuinely believe that Melo really wanted a strong head figure and MDA wasn't providing that stregth. Think of the guys he's played for. Boeheim, Karl, Coach K in the olympics. I think Melo's problem was that nothing was clicking for the team and he was getting frustrated because the coach wasn't fixing it. Maybe vociing displeasure or showing that frustration was the most leadership any one had given in the last month.
It's only been 3 games and this is all moot if these guys revert back to the way they were playing before. But what's done is done. I'm of the opinion that Melo desperately wants to win. He just has to have that burning desire within him for the rest of his career. That passion to win and do whatever it takes so far is what's seperated him from guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, etc....
This reminds me of when Melo said after a game that he would talk to Amare about 'how to get him more involved.' Couldn't help but wonder why Melo would take that responsiblity onto himself and where MDA was in all of this.
Where was melo? This is all about Woodson holding players "accountable" and public relations spin.
Amare has run it all but two years of his career. I Think Amare knows the deal.
Its been written that Amare and Melo are not tight.
The real story will not be televised.
nehemiah wrote:Thanks guys -- I got it now. I feel much better since SC above did the personality profiles and analyzed who Melo would rather have a beer with. Love the objectivity and research that was called for as well.
haha - you won't find a heck of a lot of objectivity here, this being a sports forum and all. It does seem that some posters suffer from "Carmelo Derangement Syndrome" though.
So far, he's not "Marbury 2.0" He hasn't done enough damage, and hasn't been nearly as entertaining off the court.
Melo is not Marbury. Not even close.
Marbury was a delusional mental midget with a big heard and the emotional stability of a 10 year old.
Melo is an egocentric adult with strong need for attention and leadership.
Nalod wrote:Uptown wrote:MSG3 wrote:I'm not naive enough to think everything was all rosey with Melo and MDA. But before last season with the trade hanging over Denvers head, how many times was Melo perceived as a bad locker room guy or a coach killer?I genuinely believe that Melo really wanted a strong head figure and MDA wasn't providing that stregth. Think of the guys he's played for. Boeheim, Karl, Coach K in the olympics. I think Melo's problem was that nothing was clicking for the team and he was getting frustrated because the coach wasn't fixing it. Maybe vociing displeasure or showing that frustration was the most leadership any one had given in the last month.
It's only been 3 games and this is all moot if these guys revert back to the way they were playing before. But what's done is done. I'm of the opinion that Melo desperately wants to win. He just has to have that burning desire within him for the rest of his career. That passion to win and do whatever it takes so far is what's seperated him from guys like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, etc....
This reminds me of when Melo said after a game that he would talk to Amare about 'how to get him more involved.' Couldn't help but wonder why Melo would take that responsiblity onto himself and where MDA was in all of this.
Where was melo? This is all about Woodson holding players "accountable" and public relations spin.
Amare has run it all but two years of his career. I Think Amare knows the deal.
Its been written that Amare and Melo are not tight.
The real story will not be televised.
Where was Melo? like I said talking to Amare while his coach tried to force Melo to play Point Forward which was a bad idea from jump. You dont ask a scoring forward to facilitate. You wouldn't ask Bernard King or Adrian Dantley to run point forward. Its the coaches team. Coach them up and design actual plays that will get Amare the ball where he needs it.
So when you read "holding players accountable", you call it 'public relation spin' but when you read that 'Melo and Stat aint tight' you use that as cited info to support your claims? How nice is it to pick and choose what fits your agenda?
mrKnickShot wrote:misterearl wrote:Say What?RonRon wrote:I was against the trade and I always thought Melo was a BIG stat whore.
RonRon - the trade was dictated by Dolan as much as Carmelo.
What is a stat whore?
It means that you are willing to give up your stats (shots,rebound) to other teammates for sexual favors or money or dem drugs.
It means Melo nightlights as Stat's pimp. Or he's doing the ugly with Stat for that max cash. Take your pick.
Nalod wrote:
Melo is not Marbury. Not even close. Marbury was a delusional mental midget with a big heard and the emotional stability of a 10 year old.
Melo is an egocentric adult with strong need for attention and leadership.
completely agree (and cannot believe this has become a discussion topic)
Nalod wrote:Why is he a Captain?Needs a "strong personality" but is thought of as a team leader.
MSG just fabricated some propaganda to humanize him a bit.
LIke I have said for years, they just gonna tell fans what they want to hear.
What is interesting is in the three games he is shooting less, passing more and playing defense.
I still don't get what is going on with the team other than reducing Lin's touchs a bit.
Is this all about "personality" and a grown man having to hold a guy making 5-10-15-20 million dollars "accountable" like an AAU team?
Fabricated propaganda? Who am I, Dolan's henchmen?
I stated an opinion and an observation which stemmed from things I saw before Melo was even here. D'Antoni never seemed to coach up his players. He told them what to do and wanted them to figure it out when it wasn't going well.
I even said in my post that Melo hasn't been on the level of the upper echelon guys probably because he doesn't have that constant desire to win like LeBron and Kobe. So while I think a big part of the problem was MDA, I still think Melo needs to prove he wants to do anything it takes to win for more than 3 games.
SupremeCommander wrote:Nalod wrote:
Melo is not Marbury. Not even close. Marbury was a delusional mental midget with a big heard and the emotional stability of a 10 year old.
Melo is an egocentric adult with strong need for attention and leadership.
completely agree (and cannot believe this has become a discussion topic)
I absolutely agree with this.
Melo, and his fans, knew that as soon as the resident whipping boy (MDA) was pushed out, that Melo would become the defacto whipping boy, didn't they?
and why, in a thread where, in his quotes, Melo purports to welcome all the criticism, are there such fervent defenders of Melo trying to protect him from harm?
nothing is going to save Melo but big wins. if the Knicks lose in the first round (no matter how noble a fight they put up), Melo is gonna have an entire off-season of heavy criticism to endure and no coach to blame it on.
It's comical that one person respects him for saying he welcomes the critics. These guys are all so full of shit it's fucking incredible. Dwight Howard actually said he can't wait for this to all be over because the pressure is killing him. You demand a trade in the middle of the season like a diva destroy team unity and chemistry and then say you're looking to god for strength. You dunk basetballs for 18MM dollars. Go fuck yourself!
Melo the same. You're agent didn't give you the opt out like Lebron and Wade so make the season about you. He hasn't won here. He hasn't led here. He destoryed the cap flexibility of the team and usually the flow of the offense. He didn't try to buy into a system that by all accounts inflates numbers and get's everyone paid and players always excel in. He is a cheap shot artist when things don't go well, he sulks all the time, he treats employees of the team bad (confirmed from source) and makes everything about him.
Listen, basketball is not a complicated game. It's easy in fact. A team like the Bulls with limited offensive talent has found a way to win without rose in the lineup, why? Because effort is 90% of the game in this league. Boxing out a man, not taking selfish shots, hitting the open man when you're double teamed, following some basic defensive principles and there is no reason this team should not win 60-65% of their games.
But, we come out without effort. Melo (Amare) never know why. They never have an answer for things. Leaders man up, they box out, the fight through screens and to grab rebounds and they pick their teammates up.
Again, if you don't like the coach that's one thing. But, not giving effort and allowing teams like the Raptors, Cavs, Bobcats to beat you is another. Melo should be getting 8rbs Amare 11rbs, let's not forget everything we have seen about Carmelo.
MS wrote:It's comical that one person respects him for saying he welcomes the critics. These guys are all so full of shit it's fucking incredible. Dwight Howard actually said he can't wait for this to all be over because the pressure is killing him. You demand a trade in the middle of the season like a diva destroy team unity and chemistry and then say you're looking to god for strength. You dunk basetballs for 18MM dollars. Go fuck yourself!Melo the same. You're agent didn't give you the opt out like Lebron and Wade so make the season about you. He hasn't won here. He hasn't led here. He destoryed the cap flexibility of the team and usually the flow of the offense. He didn't try to buy into a system that by all accounts inflates numbers and get's everyone paid and players always excel in. He is a cheap shot artist when things don't go well, he sulks all the time, he treats employees of the team bad (confirmed from source) and makes everything about him.
Listen, basketball is not a complicated game. It's easy in fact. A team like the Bulls with limited offensive talent has found a way to win without rose in the lineup, why? Because effort is 90% of the game in this league. Boxing out a man, not taking selfish shots, hitting the open man when you're double teamed, following some basic defensive principles and there is no reason this team should not win 60-65% of their games.
But, we come out without effort. Melo (Amare) never know why. They never have an answer for things. Leaders man up, they box out, the fight through screens and to grab rebounds and they pick their teammates up.
Again, if you don't like the coach that's one thing. But, not giving effort and allowing teams like the Raptors, Cavs, Bobcats to beat you is another. Melo should be getting 8rbs Amare 11rbs, let's not forget everything we have seen about Carmelo.
MS, Thanks for this. It needed to be said, and in the way you've said it here. I'd like to see Melo defend himself by gutsy plays, leadership, smart and efficient basketball, and a reasonable shooting percentage. Not by just talking to the press.
misterearl wrote:MarburyAnd1Crossover - Perhaps, if you were not stuck on one rigid line of thought, Knicks basketball would be more enjoyable.Or does the mere mention of Carmelo sound like a dog whistle to your tin ear?
Think about it... how different is, "Go win a series" from "Just Win Baby"?
He said he would prefer that the Nets beat us in the standings this year, so as far as i'm concerned he's a Nets fan. We need to ignore these type of comments and focus on the positive, true fans.
unfortunately for many here in NYC Melo = A-Rodso no matter what he does it will never ever be enough....end of story!!!
ActionJackson wrote:unfortunately for many here in NYC Melo = A-Rodso no matter what he does it will never ever be enough....end of story!!!
no matter what he does? what exactly has he done? for such a die hard Knicks fan, i'm surprised how satisfied you are with Melo's performance as a Knick thus far.
I find it rather amusing that the former MDA supporters are annoyed by the same stuff that former MDA detractors were previously annoyed by
ActionJackson wrote:unfortunately for many here in NYC Melo = A-Rodso no matter what he does it will never ever be enough....end of story!!!
Tell you what, A-Rod won over a lot of fans after his 2009 post season. Like earl said, "just win baby."
This has been a crazy season. Melo still has time to get it going before the playoffs, and I fully expect him to. He's too good of a player.
one other thing, while I do agree that winning solves a lot of woes, I am not a big fan of Al Davis' "just win, baby" raiders gimmick. I think the means are just as important as the ends, becaus eif the means are solid then the ends or the winning is sustainable
Who Wrote The Book Of Love?
Nalod wrote:Why is (Carmelo) a Captain?
A. Because someone thought that giving a person a title makes them a leader. They were wrong. Carmelo is not a leader. He is a follower miscast as a leader because he scored some points in the past.
Tyson Chandler is a leader. He has a ring.
Nalod wrote:I still don't get what is going on with the team other than reducing Lin's touches a bit.
Forget offense. Counting the number of Lin's touches means little in the context of winning games. Jeremy Lin is fun but he is nothing without some help from his friends. The absence of Jared Jeffries during the losing streak is no coincidence. If Lin brings anything it is a toughness. Teammates watch him stick his nose in heavy traffic, get knocked to the floor and figure, "if he can do it, so can i."
Jeremy Lin increases the swag factor.
Nalod wrote:Is this all about "personality" and a grown man having to hold a guy making 5-10-15-20 million dollars "accountable" like an AAU team?
Absolutely.
These are people in a highly competitive situation. They are all at the pinnacle of their field. Every last one of them. Negotiating the diference between winning and losing comes down to personality. The mood swings of the game. That is exactly what makes Uncle Phil a great coach. He takes the extra time to challenge the minds of his players, one at a time. Buying books for players is just one means of getting them to stretch their horizons.
The line between victory and defeat is fragile. Games are decided by five points or less.
The point being, D'Antoni may have been afraid to challenge his stars, or expected them to self-police. It ain't that kinda party anymore. Mike Woodson also takes a page from the Book Of Red (Holzman). "On offense you do what you want, on defense - you do what I want."
