Knicks · The pressure on Melo now — turning point in his career? (page 2)

what happens when Chalmers/Cole pressure Lin while he's bringing the ball up?

What happens when Marbury [url="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9803EEDF1130F933A25754C0A9609C8B63"]makes love to pressure[/url]?

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Given how Carmelo has played, I don't see how anyone criticizing him could be called a hater. That's like criticizing a math professor for failing a student who can't add. It's impossible to know who hates a player when the player's performance is bad. It's only if and when he does well that you'd be able to assess hatred.

If you showed any equality in your criticism you would have credibility. But when you direct all you HATE at one person when there are many causes to a problem you just come off as a DISGRUNTLED HATER.

Your responses are predictable. You hate the Knicks so much that you support the players hurting the team. You, holfresh, and babyknicks may call me a Melo-hater but you're Knick haters. I don't really believe that; I'm just mockingly stooping down to hate-charging level for a moment. This forum would have more productive discussions if people didn't call each other's support of the team or players into question.

(Anology)

Racism, Anti Semitism and all bigotry all are similar in that they find a person or a Type to hate and blame all THEIR issues on them - SCAPEGOATING!!!!

As I continuously said, I blame (mostly) Amare, Melo and MDA. Unless you place fair blame on the myriad of issues, you are following the behavior pattern of the aforementioned.

I am not saying that you are one of those and I believe that you are a good well meaning person but its the same mindset that the bigots exhibit. I believe you are SCAPEGOATING.

airchibundo507 wrote:what happens when Chalmers/Cole pressure Lin while he's bringing the ball up?

Are you happy when Lin turns the ball over, because you somehow feel this satisfies your argument pro-Melo?

Im asking this very serious, because I did try to be happy about Melos first missed layup in the Portland game. But see, I couldnt stay negative on him when I've seen his effort on defense, his sharing the ball on offense and the total no-iso game the whole team played that game and since then.

I still think it was a sucker move how he got MDA out. I still have the fear these lost games will hurt us in the hunt for the Atlantic Title. But: I cant be mad for his play for to long, since, well: Im a Knicks fan first and foremost. The coaching chance was a good thing, since Woodson is getting everything from his players MDA couldnt.

Right now I am very happy about the fact that the whole team is giving effort 48 minutes, and a big part of our success is, in my point of view, that we have someone like Tayshaun Prince playing SF for this team. An lockdown defender, who is doing all the little things like rebounding, passing, saving loose balls and so on, while being offensively limited to mediocre.

But I am very happy to have a Melo playing in Prince mode until he gets his body (conditioning and injuries) back. And I am looking forward to see him next season: In shape, which in turn will limit his small injuries, and playing full trottle on both ends of the court. When he gets that, you have what he always could have been: a player thats at least as dangerous as Lebron James in the first 40 minutes, and infinitly more dangerous when the game is on the line. Smiling assassin? Hated it before as he was not givnig 110%. Right now he just cant smile since hes totally gassed, but thats a good thing. Because it can change.

Yes, its a turning point in his career, and for that, a turning point for the Knicks. If he continues doing what he does right now and gets healthy/fit to improve from here, we have a future thats looking as good as it gets. All is in place, now execute! Win every game for the remaining season, win every playoff game and the title! Will it happen? Probably not, but this team right now could do it! They are that good!

BasketballJones wrote:What happens when Marbury [url="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9803EEDF1130F933A25754C0A9609C8B63"]makes love to pressure[/url]?

He makes Melove to pressure...

"I make love to pressure"...What a classic!!!!.. How u guys could not love Marbs is beyond me..

I see you didn't refute any of my stats and chose to come up with a different set of numbers to try to put your argument in the best light. By the way, I've been watching the Knicks since Bernard King and read Starks' book. There are many more Knick fans not commenting on this board than otherwise. Try to have a broader view. It makes you look kinda biased when it is obvious to all the world watching the Knicks when Melo keeps shooting 33% and you keep giving him unconfirmed excuses regarding his poor play.

airchibundo507 wrote:

nehemiah wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:It has nothing to do with whether or not he is in shape. He game out of the gates blazing at the start of the season. Then the injuries added up and his shooting went to sht. Either he has lingering injuries or he is just in a major slump which was initially caused by the injuries. Either way, he will turn it around at some point this season, just like Amare and Dirk did.

Comments like this are quite misleading, because most people only remember those "blazing (games) at the start of the season" vaguely. But that's why we have websites like basketball-reference to check.

For the 1st 20 games, Melo shot 40% or below in 11 out of the 20 games, including a 0% performance (yes, zero percent FGA) against Charlotte. That's 40% or below, not 50%. If that's blazing, I'd hate to see what a mediocre Melo would look like.

Since you probably jumped on the Linsanity bandwagon like most other Lin fans and likely have no recollection of how the season started, let me brief you on how Melo performed this season before multiple injuries started to affect his performance.

First 7 games:

46.3% FG, 37.8% 3P FG, 29.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 3.9 apg

airchibundo507 wrote:Defense is the easiest way to contention in basket, plain and simple.

That's a lazy stance and arguable, at best.

Two-way players with un-guardable offensive productivity are what have repeatedly garnered championships.

Your stance is as laughable as 'it's da soopa-stawz dat win!."

Why have solely defensive-minded players fallen to the draft bottom?

Oh, and do you dislike Shump? Afterall, he is the Knicks best perimeter defender, and Mike D'Antoni's say is what finalized his choice.

MozelGovCocktail wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:Defense is the easiest way to contention in basket, plain and simple.

That's a lazy stance and arguable, at best.

Two-way players with un-guardable offensive productivity are what have repeatedly garnered championships.

Your stance is as laughable as 'it's da soopa-stawz dat win!."

Why have solely defensive-minded players fallen to the draft bottom?

Oh, and do you dislike Shump? Afterall, he is the Knicks best perimeter defender, and Mike D'Antoni's say is what finalized his choice.

This is a trait shared by the poster and the player he champions. It's difficult to see if you're a Knick fan 1st, why making excuses would be the priority for a player no where near to where he should be playing.

And let me add the constructive part to this criticism. Until Melo regains some of his shooting touch, he should be looking to pass more rather than to score -- yes, he has done better with his passes recently -- I'd like for him to make it more of a 1st option for him.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:i was hating on melo during the losing streak and the resigning of MDA. but i see him trying out there on both ends of the court. personally i don't care about the points, i want to see rebounding and defense—effort.

have you noticed he is looking worn out during practice/post game interviews? could be the pressure or the fact that he's playing both ends of the court now?

I'm hoping that this is a turning pt in his career where this is going to transition him into a well rounded player like it did for Paul Pierce.

we shall see.

It may not get better this year. He looks like he CAN'T put the ball in the basket effectively. He may need the entire off-season to get in better shape.

I give credit to Melo for giving more effort on the defensive end and doing the little things; however, I also care about his points being that Melo is not an elite defender, nor is he a great passer, he is a great scorer though, and I believe that’s going to determine whether we can be threat in the playoffs or not. We will see.

This is absolutely a turning point in Melo's career. He has no excuses....it's put up or shut up time. He admitted to not playng hard this season and for our best player it's not acceptable. He's been playing hard during the win streak regardless of his offensive production. He has the talent and the tools but he needs to gey it done or he's goint to get eaten alive buy fans and the media.

nehemiah wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:Defense is the easiest way to contention in basket, plain and simple.

That's a lazy stance and arguable, at best.

Two-way players with un-guardable offensive productivity are what have repeatedly garnered championships.

Your stance is as laughable as 'it's da soopa-stawz dat win!."

Why have solely defensive-minded players fallen to the draft bottom?

Oh, and do you dislike Shump? Afterall, he is the Knicks best perimeter defender, and Mike D'Antoni's say is what finalized his choice.

This is a trait shared by the poster and the player he champions. It's difficult to see if you're a Knick fan 1st, why making excuses would be the priority for a player no where near to where he should be playing.

And let me add the constructive part to this criticism. Until Melo regains some of his shooting touch, he should be looking to pass more rather than to score -- yes, he has done better with his passes recently -- I'd like for him to make it more of a 1st option for him.

Exactly; if he can't score, I'd like to see him put up Igguodala-like #s.

The Turning Point Was The Burial of Linsanity

CashMoney wrote:This is absolutely a turning point in Melo's career. He has no excuses....it's put up or shut up time. He admitted to not playng hard this season and for our best player it's not acceptable. He's been playing hard during the win streak regardless of his offensive production. He has the talent and the tools but he needs to gey it done or he's goint to get eaten alive buy fans and the media.

Carmelo struggles to articulate exactly what he is feeling.

Has anyone stopped to consider that his "true confession" to not "playing hard" is an admission that he was injured?

Or is it more important to jump to conclusions without considering context, and all available information?

Bonn1997 wrote:

nehemiah wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:Defense is the easiest way to contention in basket, plain and simple.

That's a lazy stance and arguable, at best.

Two-way players with un-guardable offensive productivity are what have repeatedly garnered championships.

Your stance is as laughable as 'it's da soopa-stawz dat win!."

Why have solely defensive-minded players fallen to the draft bottom?

Oh, and do you dislike Shump? Afterall, he is the Knicks best perimeter defender, and Mike D'Antoni's say is what finalized his choice.

This is a trait shared by the poster and the player he champions. It's difficult to see if you're a Knick fan 1st, why making excuses would be the priority for a player no where near to where he should be playing.

And let me add the constructive part to this criticism. Until Melo regains some of his shooting touch, he should be looking to pass more rather than to score -- yes, he has done better with his passes recently -- I'd like for him to make it more of a 1st option for him.

Exactly; if he can't score, I'd like to see him put up Igguodala-like #s.

This is true, however since when did we trade half a team for a better Richard Jefferson?

Like I said before, I give Melo credit for giving more effort, but my expectations for him are much higher, remember he is suppose to be our main building block. Let’s hope that he recovers for good, time will tell.

misterearl wrote:The Turning Point Was The Burial of Linsanity

CashMoney wrote:This is absolutely a turning point in Melo's career. He has no excuses....it's put up or shut up time. He admitted to not playng hard this season and for our best player it's not acceptable. He's been playing hard during the win streak regardless of his offensive production. He has the talent and the tools but he needs to gey it done or he's goint to get eaten alive buy fans and the media.

Carmelo struggles to articulate exactly what he is feeling.

Has anyone stopped to consider that his "true confession" to not "playing hard" is an admission that he was injured?

Or is it more important to jump to conclusions without considering context, and all available information?

no. If he was hurt he would say he was hurting. Like Amare said he was rehabbing, put on weight and didnt play contact basketball for 6 months and hadnt done that since junior high.

Melo just said he's trying to play harder. We should all applaud that!

Just win.

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:i was hating on melo during the losing streak and the resigning of MDA. but i see him trying out there on both ends of the court. personally i don't care about the points, i want to see rebounding and defense—effort.

have you noticed he is looking worn out during practice/post game interviews? could be the pressure or the fact that he's playing both ends of the court now?

I'm hoping that this is a turning pt in his career where this is going to transition him into a well rounded player like it did for Paul Pierce.

we shall see.

It may not get better this year. He looks like he CAN'T put the ball in the basket effectively. He may need the entire off-season to get in better shape.

I give credit to Melo for giving more effort on the defensive end and doing the little things; however, I also care about his points being that Melo is not an elite defender, nor is he a great passer, he is a great scorer though, and I believe that’s going to determine whether we can be threat in the playoffs or not. We will see.

actually i think he is a great passer. he's not an elite defender but i think he can be. He can have a all the atributes of a "superstar" if he wants to.

SlimChin wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:i was hating on melo during the losing streak and the resigning of MDA. but i see him trying out there on both ends of the court. personally i don't care about the points, i want to see rebounding and defense—effort.

have you noticed he is looking worn out during practice/post game interviews? could be the pressure or the fact that he's playing both ends of the court now?

I'm hoping that this is a turning pt in his career where this is going to transition him into a well rounded player like it did for Paul Pierce.

we shall see.

It may not get better this year. He looks like he CAN'T put the ball in the basket effectively. He may need the entire off-season to get in better shape.

I give credit to Melo for giving more effort on the defensive end and doing the little things; however, I also care about his points being that Melo is not an elite defender, nor is he a great passer, he is a great scorer though, and I believe that’s going to determine whether we can be threat in the playoffs or not. We will see.

actually i think he is a great passer. he's not an elite defender but i think he can be. He can have a all the atributes of a "superstar" if he wants to.

He makes some great passes. He's not a great passer though. Great passers don't have 1:1 career assist turnover ratios. Below average decision-makers do.

Who You Gunna Believe, The Answer Man Or The Lyin' New York Post?

fishmike wrote:no. If he was hurt he would say he was hurting.

The star forward indicated he’s not 100 percent. Occasionally a trainer will spend time flexing his wrist before a game in the locker room.

You could look it up.

misterearl wrote:Who You Gunna Believe, The Answer Man Or The Lyin' New York Post?

fishmike wrote:no. If he was hurt he would say he was hurting.

The star forward indicated he’s not 100 percent. Occasionally a trainer will spend time flexing his wrist before a game in the locker room.

You could look it up.

The problem is that it's not like he just had one freak accident. His entire body is falling apart.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SlimChin wrote:i was hating on melo during the losing streak and the resigning of MDA. but i see him trying out there on both ends of the court. personally i don't care about the points, i want to see rebounding and defense—effort.

have you noticed he is looking worn out during practice/post game interviews? could be the pressure or the fact that he's playing both ends of the court now?

I'm hoping that this is a turning pt in his career where this is going to transition him into a well rounded player like it did for Paul Pierce.

we shall see.

It may not get better this year. He looks like he CAN'T put the ball in the basket effectively. He may need the entire off-season to get in better shape.

I give credit to Melo for giving more effort on the defensive end and doing the little things; however, I also care about his points being that Melo is not an elite defender, nor is he a great passer, he is a great scorer though, and I believe that’s going to determine whether we can be threat in the playoffs or not. We will see.

actually i think he is a great passer. he's not an elite defender but i think he can be. He can have a all the atributes of a "superstar" if he wants to.

He makes some great passes. He's not a great passer though. Great passers don't have 1:1 career assist turnover ratios. Below average decision-makers do.

Agree, Melo has the ability, but no way on earth a career 3 APG with 3 TO can be consider a great passer.

Things Fall Apart

Bonn1997 wrote:The problem is that it's not like he just had one freak accident. His entire body is falling apart.

Dude, if you have ever been in an NBA trainers room, you would see that damn near everyone is getting some form of treatment this time of year. Everyone.

On gameday, there is much more than a simple shootaround going on.

It is not pretty.