MozelGovCocktail wrote:Not at all. I'm merely contending that few conclusions can be drawn from small bodies of work.We have yet to see if Woodson can truly cultivate players' strengths on a one-to-one basis over a sustained period.
Sweeping generalizations are exactly what I'm arguing against.
mrKnickShot wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:Mismanagement of Knicks roster is no joke. A dozen or so games in and guys are dropping like flies. It is possible that Woody doesn't know his guys' limitations as well as MDA did.This is why it's silly to make such leaps in illogic as displayed in this thread.
mrKnickShot wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:It was obvious that Stat was afraid to tangle in the paint because he feared injury.It's entirely plausible that MDA simply had a professionally intimate understanding of Amare's physical capabilities.
If Woody's "holding his nuts to the fire" is what pushed Stat onto a mattress, then Woody must be held accountable.
hahahaha - this is really really funny!!
Not sure if you were serious or not ... You were not serious right? You were joking? If you were being sarcastic then this is really really funny. If not, then I don't know what to respond to this and it's ... still pretty funny 
So you were not joking. Whoops sorry!
So you think that Woodson asking Amare to play defense was the wrong move since that is his limitation and hence caused him to injure himself? Perhaps you are onto something I would never have looked at it that way. Perhaps if all coaches would not require their players to try too hard there would be fewer injuries.
Interesting ...
Much like MDA did during his time here......
MozelGovCocktail wrote:Not at all. I'm merely contending that few conclusions can be drawn from small bodies of work.We have yet to see if Woodson can truly cultivate players' strengths on a one-to-one basis over a sustained period.
Sweeping generalizations are exactly what I'm arguing against.
mrKnickShot wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:Mismanagement of Knicks roster is no joke. A dozen or so games in and guys are dropping like flies. It is possible that Woody doesn't know his guys' limitations as well as MDA did.This is why it's silly to make such leaps in illogic as displayed in this thread.
mrKnickShot wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:It was obvious that Stat was afraid to tangle in the paint because he feared injury.It's entirely plausible that MDA simply had a professionally intimate understanding of Amare's physical capabilities.
If Woody's "holding his nuts to the fire" is what pushed Stat onto a mattress, then Woody must be held accountable.
hahahaha - this is really really funny!!
Not sure if you were serious or not ... You were not serious right? You were joking? If you were being sarcastic then this is really really funny. If not, then I don't know what to respond to this and it's ... still pretty funny
So you were not joking. Whoops sorry!
So you think that Woodson asking Amare to play defense was the wrong move since that is his limitation and hence caused him to injure himself? Perhaps you are onto something I would never have looked at it that way. Perhaps if all coaches would not require their players to try too hard there would be fewer injuries.
Interesting ...
Much like MDA did during his time here......
Love this quote for Van Gundy:
Van Gundy said the injuries also have given them more structure on offense in focusing on Anthony, instead of the Mike D’Antoni spread-the-wealth system.
“Not that they wanted these injuries. If you ask them, they’d love to take Stoudemire and Lin back,’’ Van Gundy said. “But it’s defined what they’re going to do.. They’re going to play the game through Carmelo. They’re not (messing) around and making other people happy. At least in the short term, it’s helped them a bit - defensively it’s helped them no question about that.’’
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/knicksblog/magic_coach_says_knicks_better_defensively_da2me5ZHPq0t6G8L2a5XPI#ixzz1rEBwpOlD
Uptown wrote:knicks1248 wrote:SVG said were a better defensive team with out Amare and MDA..a direct shot..
Did he really say that?
Yeah he did..
Woodson..sat J R..down after is bone headed foul that got him ejected..thats great communication, sit a player down tell him how much of a plus he is and how he needs to be professional and continue to wrk hard...look at the result..
Nate rob shoots a shot at the opponents basket that almost counted..gets bench for a couple weeks despite the fact that at the time..he was much needed..
woodson approach is much better for certain players...but I ask myself..y did joe johnson want him gone
ChuckBuck wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Uptown wrote:knicks1248 wrote:SVG said were a better defensive team with out Amare and MDA..a direct shot..
Did he really say that?
Yeah he did..
Woodson..sat J R..down after is bone headed foul that got him ejected..thats great communication, sit a player down tell him how much of a plus he is and how he needs to be professional and continue to wrk hard...look at the result..
Nate rob shoots a shot at the opponents basket that almost counted..gets bench for a couple weeks despite the fact that at the time..he was much needed..
woodson approach is much better for certain players...but I ask myself..y did joe johnson want him gone
You mean Josh Smith.
No it was JOE, he wasn't going to resign if they kept woodson, Josh wasn't thrilled about woodson either. I think it was good that woodson coach with MDA, he uses his defensive statergy and twaeks MDA's offensive stratergies..
Really,The ISO's is all he added
knicks1248 wrote:Uptown wrote:knicks1248 wrote:SVG said were a better defensive team with out Amare and MDA..a direct shot..
Did he really say that?
Yeah he did..
Woodson..sat J R..down after is bone headed foul that got him ejected..thats great communication, sit a player down tell him how much of a plus he is and how he needs to be professional and continue to wrk hard...look at the result..
Nate rob shoots a shot at the opponents basket that almost counted..gets bench for a couple weeks despite the fact that at the time..he was much needed..
woodson approach is much better for certain players...but I ask myself..y did joe johnson want him gone
Good point re: 
and our old buddy Nate. I remember watching that game and being almost as livid as at the boneheadedness of that dumb wrong-basket shot. But really let it overshadow the needs of a short-handed team, same with Marbury. Seems if can't completely trust his PG, he really can't get his system to work.
Look sharp
Mike Woodson revealed some of his talk from Wednesday with J.R. Smith, noting that he wants an overall professional approach.
"On and off the floor," Woodson said. "I want him to be happy when he’s on the floor playing, feel good about himself. When things go bad I don’t want that look on his face like the world is coming down on him. If we make mistakes, miss shots, it’s OK.
"Off the floor, I expect him to be more professional. I want him to be a pro. It’s my job as a coach. That’s one thing you got to teach. It’s not just playing on the floor, it’s how you present yourself off the floor as well. He knows. He’s been around long enough.
"I told him I’m going to continue to coach him as long as I’m coaching the team. I’m not going to let him off the hook. I want his shorts pulled up. I want him to look presentable, be a professional. That’s what it’s all about."
The Answer Man, Live From Section 102 In Atlanta
knicks1248 wrote:No it was JOE, he wasn't going to resign if they kept woodson, Josh wasn't thrilled about woodson either. I think it was good that woodson coach with MDA, he uses his defensive statergy and twaeks MDA's offensive stratergies.. Really,The ISO's is all he added
Complete and utter nonsense.
The Atlanta Hawks players had no irreconcilable differences with Mike Woodson. The main issue was their failure to perform in the playoffs. Most notably, Joe Johnson was horrible. That was not on Woodson. That was a player failing to rise to the occasion. Joe Johnson is one of the most introverted personalities in pro sports. He froze, choked, and averaged fewer points than expected. It is that simple.
Josh Smith was immature and has admitted this much. In the exact same manner Woodson is prodding JR to be more professional Mike Woodson prodded Josh. Josh resented and resisted being called out in public because his superstar ego would not allow it. Since that time, Josh Smith has admitted he was the one who needed to grow up. Woodson was correct.
Before the Hawks game, his entire former Hawks roster marched over to Woodson, in front of the Knicks bench - before the tip, to shake his hand. That was a powerful gesture.
To boil down what Mike Woodson has added as only "iso's" is both superficial and lacks substance.
Woodson has brought much more than a single offensive set to the Knicks.
He has brought a determination to win via accountability (from 1-12), responsibility ("hit the open man") and consistent (defensive) effort. They recover quickly from losing. The Indiana collapse had little hangover. We have not lost more than one game in a row.
He is pushing an injured Baron Davis to use whatever fumes he has left in the tank.
Hold up, did Toney Douglas (15, 6 and 5) actually get into the lane last night?
did he actually make J.R. pull his shorts up?
Are you allowed to like Woodson and NOT hate MDA?
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Are you allowed to like Woodson and NOT hate MDA?
My girlfriend to me, is the most wonderful person in the world.
But to my wife??
knicks1248 wrote:Uptown wrote:knicks1248 wrote:SVG said were a better defensive team with out Amare and MDA..a direct shot..
Did he really say that?
Yeah he did..
Woodson..sat J R..down after is bone headed foul that got him ejected..thats great communication, sit a player down tell him how much of a plus he is and how he needs to be professional and continue to wrk hard...look at the result..
Nate rob shoots a shot at the opponents basket that almost counted..gets bench for a couple weeks despite the fact that at the time..he was much needed..
woodson approach is much better for certain players...but I ask myself..y did joe johnson want him gone
The entire ATL team wanted Woodson gone because his substitution patterns were predictably robotic, among many other things. His team took to the notion that they were simply a team on the outside of the elite looking in, and they folded whenever they were pressed.
By admission, you feel that MDA never had a sustained period which to cultivate relationships and identify with his players. I agree.
Swishfm3 wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:Not at all. I'm merely contending that few conclusions can be drawn from small bodies of work.We have yet to see if Woodson can truly cultivate players' strengths on a one-to-one basis over a sustained period.
Sweeping generalizations are exactly what I'm arguing against.
mrKnickShot wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:Mismanagement of Knicks roster is no joke. A dozen or so games in and guys are dropping like flies. It is possible that Woody doesn't know his guys' limitations as well as MDA did.This is why it's silly to make such leaps in illogic as displayed in this thread.
mrKnickShot wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:It was obvious that Stat was afraid to tangle in the paint because he feared injury.It's entirely plausible that MDA simply had a professionally intimate understanding of Amare's physical capabilities.
If Woody's "holding his nuts to the fire" is what pushed Stat onto a mattress, then Woody must be held accountable.
hahahaha - this is really really funny!!
Not sure if you were serious or not ... You were not serious right? You were joking? If you were being sarcastic then this is really really funny. If not, then I don't know what to respond to this and it's ... still pretty funny
So you were not joking. Whoops sorry!
So you think that Woodson asking Amare to play defense was the wrong move since that is his limitation and hence caused him to injure himself? Perhaps you are onto something I would never have looked at it that way. Perhaps if all coaches would not require their players to try too hard there would be fewer injuries.
Interesting ...
Much like MDA did during his time here......
Say What?
MozelGovCocktail wrote:The entire ATL team wanted Woodson gone because his substitution patterns were predictably robotic, among many other things. His team took to the notion that they were simply a team on the outside of the elite looking in, and they folded whenever they were pressed.
Substitution patterns?
Can you provide any comments from Woodson's Hawks players or are you just making ish up?
The Atlanta Hawks, as constructed under Mike Woodson, were a gaggle of redundant players. There was no center and the guards were barely ambulatory. Please, whatever you do - DO NOT attempt to suggest Al Horford is a center. Horford is no more a center than David Lee is a center.
There was minimal quality depth to make substitution patterns an issue.
Try again.
I think so. It's just that many Knicks fans are extreme in their judgements, and this thread could lead many to conclude that a portion of the fan base also suffers from selective memory disorder.
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Are you allowed to like Woodson and NOT hate MDA?
Woodsons style was deemed innefective in Atlanta, he was fired. Why you choose to become an apologist for his roster depth now is, well... interesting, at best.
I don't have to touch the Horford thing, thanks.
He failed to use bench players like Acie Law and Solomon Jones, and chose an 8 man rotation. He tried to expand to 9 or 10 too late. His starters wore down and couldn't close (sound familiar)?
His 'two foul- sit down' policy then became an almost laughably exploitable advantage for opponents.
History points to him being a coach that will ride select players until they break and that he'll keep cold players cold.
Time will tell what he will do with a team without a 'gaggle of redundant players'.
misterearl wrote:Say What?MozelGovCocktail wrote:The entire ATL team wanted Woodson gone because his substitution patterns were predictably robotic, among many other things. His team took to the notion that they were simply a team on the outside of the elite looking in, and they folded whenever they were pressed.
Substitution patterns?
Can you provide any comments from Woodson's Hawks players or are you just making ish up?
The Atlanta Hawks, as constructed under Mike Woodson, were a gaggle of redundant players. There was no center and the guards were barely ambulatory. Please, whatever you do - DO NOT attempt to suggest Al Horford is a center. Horford is no more a center than David Lee is a center.
There was minimal quality depth to make substitution patterns an issue.
Try again.
MozelGovCocktail wrote:Woodsons style was deemed innefective in Atlanta, he was fired. Why you choose to become an apologist for his roster depth now is, well... interesting, at best.I don't have to touch the Horford thing, thanks.
He failed to use bench players like Acie Law and Solomon Jones, and chose an 8 man rotation. He tried to expand to 9 or 10 too late. His starters wore down and couldn't close (sound familiar)?
His 'two foul- sit down' policy then became an almost laughably exploitable advantage for opponents.
History points to him being a coach that will ride select players until they break and that he'll keep cold players cold.
Time will tell what he will do with a team without a 'gaggle of redundant players'.
misterearl wrote:Say What?MozelGovCocktail wrote:The entire ATL team wanted Woodson gone because his substitution patterns were predictably robotic, among many other things. His team took to the notion that they were simply a team on the outside of the elite looking in, and they folded whenever they were pressed.
Substitution patterns?
Can you provide any comments from Woodson's Hawks players or are you just making ish up?
The Atlanta Hawks, as constructed under Mike Woodson, were a gaggle of redundant players. There was no center and the guards were barely ambulatory. Please, whatever you do - DO NOT attempt to suggest Al Horford is a center. Horford is no more a center than David Lee is a center.
There was minimal quality depth to make substitution patterns an issue.
Try again.
Maybe he choose an 8 man rotation because his bench was garbage. Which current teams are Acie Law and Solomon Jones helping in this years playoff push? Woodson said it himself, this is the deepest team he's ever been apart of and he is utilizing that. No 8 man rotations here.
You Had Me At Acie Law
MozelGovCocktail wrote:He failed to use bench players like Acie Law and Solomon Jones, and chose an 8 man rotation. He tried to expand to 9 or 10 too late. His starters wore down and couldn't close (sound familiar)?
His starters in the playoffs, especially his star starters like Joe Johnson, picked a bad time to go cold.
Has anyone seen Acie Law lately?
Anyone?
Bueller?
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Are you allowed to like Woodson and NOT hate MDA?
Nope. It's illegal on this board. And if the Knicks win because the players are playing harder, then it proves MDA was the worst coach ever, even though a host of other big name coaches failed here too in the last 10 years.
Woodson is doing well, so far. MDA and Carmelo did not get along. That is the main reason why we have 28 wins at this point, instead of 34+. Even with injuries to 2 of our top 4 players at any given time, we're talented enough to win at an above .500 rate. This has been proven with both coaches; not many teams have that scenario. But anyway, I like what Woodson is doing.
Picked a bad time to go cold is one way to put it. They were mentally and physically exhausted is another, more relevant way. Iso mania kills stars' energy and bench players, interest.
But I see that benches don't matter here.
misterearl wrote:You Had Me At Acie LawMozelGovCocktail wrote:He failed to use bench players like Acie Law and Solomon Jones, and chose an 8 man rotation. He tried to expand to 9 or 10 too late. His starters wore down and couldn't close (sound familiar)?
His starters in the playoffs, especially his star starters like Joe Johnson, picked a bad time to go cold.
Has anyone seen Acie Law lately?
Bueller?
