yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
Other than the Bulls, it creates horrible matchups for all teams. Also, Amare gets in the way of what the knicks want to do with Melo
Clean wrote:VS good teams all we need is someone to breakdown the D. This is why we looked like Pre-Linsanity Knicks tonight. We can get away with it vs bad teams but we will be exposed vs good teams unless we get hot from outside or melo is on fire.
This is true. We can not be true contenders without a viable PG. But the difference between the current Knicks and the pre-Linsanity knicks is that we can now win (and have been winning) with defense.
mrKnickShot wrote:holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
Other than the Bulls, it creates horrible matchups for all teams. Also, Amare gets in the way of what the knicks want to do with Melo
But Melo could score on anyone..He has been blowing by Granger on Indy and the same with Deng...Rebounding is more important than any added advantage we could get from Melo playing the 4...Plus Melo rebounds better against threes..And he doesnt get in the way, it's a convenient argument because STAT isn't player...Much like the argument that the Knicks were better without Melo and Amare..
holfresh wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
Other than the Bulls, it creates horrible matchups for all teams. Also, Amare gets in the way of what the knicks want to do with Melo
But Melo could score on anyone..He has been blowing by Granger on Indy and the same with Deng...Rebounding is more important than any added advantage we could get from Melo playing the 4...Plus Melo rebounds better against threes..
Other teams need to play smaller to guard us when he is at PF. Also, I actually think that Melo is a better rebounder at this point.
Tonight they played the Bulls who beast on the boards (especially Noah) but against other teams, I don't see that rebounding is their issue.
Rebounding win Championships
Anyway coach says he starts and I think its the right move..I think this board has a tendency to think the team is better playing a certain way given a few wins...
holfresh wrote:Rebounding win Championships
Of course! But, you are assuming that with STAT we don't get killed on the boards tonight and I think we do. We are/were not a top tier rebounding team like the Bulls regardless of who we have out there.
holfresh wrote:Anyway coach says he starts and I think its the right move..I think this board has a tendency to think the team is better playing a certain way given a few wins...
Time will certainly tell. If it does not work, I have confidence in Woody to make the right move for the team.
It always amazes me how stars/absolute studs are discarded on his board..
I'll say this tho...If the Knicks were to make a serious run this year, Amare will be an integral part of that and it won't be from the bench...
holfresh wrote:It always amazes me how stars/absolute studs are discarded on his board..
C'mon man! I am not discarding him. He has look rough all year but he did start playing much better under Woody. HE ACTUALLY PLAYED DEFENSE!
Listen to what JVG had to say about them playing together. It might just be a bad fit. If he played alot with our second unit, he can be the featured stud instead of him and Melo getting in the way of each other. This is not stupid board talk. Many people much more astute have made this observation.
Again, it is not a diss on him. It's about them doing the same things in the offensive sets. Stat is not a true 4. He plays very much like a 3 in a number of ways.
holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
With the Bulls they Play hide the Boozer on D which forces them to put Noah on our three because they want Boozer on Chandler. If Fields drives the basket he can put major pressure on the Bulls. Also, as you saw late in the game if they go to Melo as a Point Forward with a PnR with Chandler it puts the Bulls in a bind because of Boozer defense and Noah not being able to give help. You even got to see several skip passes to open shooters because the Bulls loaded their D to stop Anthony. You also saw that Boozer is bad even when he tries to trap.
Now where does Amar'e come in: Having him come off the bench it gives that unit size not to be out rebounded. Novak and Jeffries do not match up with Asik and Gibson but throw amar'e into the mix and move Novak to the three and you have size plus Novak has Korver to match up with. Then on O the second unit has a go to guy. The Bulls would probably go Gibson on STAT which plays pretty well but Amar'e can do it. The real key is that mid to late minutes of the first and third where the second unit plays with Melo. Stat and Melo at the 4 and 5 is just to hard to cover when you have a four that can really dribble and a five that has a jumper. Then the double high post game is open for both players because STAT can take his man off the dribble from there without any help from another big and the same goes for Melo. Deng/(thier rookie) guarding Melo and STat against Gibson with Asik, Noah, or Boozer guarding a 3 behind the three. Its just dribble drive to the rim for Melo and STAT without any shot blockers. Chandler can do it occasionally but thats STATs game. Basically they will have to give up an easy jumper off the jab step for both guys.
Amar'e size just gives the second unit what they plus he gives them a go to guy.
yellowboy90 wrote:holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
With the Bulls they Play hide the Boozer on D which forces them to put Noah on our three because they want Boozer on Chandler. If Fields drives the basket he can put major pressure on the Bulls. Also, as you saw late in the game if they go to Melo as a Point Forward with a PnR with Chandler it puts the Bulls in a bind because of Boozer defense and Noah not being able to give help. You even got to see several skip passes to open shooters because the Bulls loaded their D to stop Anthony. You also saw that Boozer is bad even when he tries to trap.
Now where does Amar'e come in: Having him come off the bench it gives that unit size not to be out rebounded. Novak and Jeffries do not match up with Asik and Gibson but throw amar'e into the mix and move Novak to the three and you have size plus Novak has Korver to match up with. Then on O the second unit has a go to guy. The Bulls would probably go Gibson on STAT which plays pretty well but Amar'e can do it. The real key is that mid to late minutes of the first and third where the second unit plays with Melo. Stat and Melo at the 4 and 5 is just to hard to cover when you have a four that can really dribble and a five that has a jumper. Then the double high post game is open for both players because STAT can take his man off the dribble from there without any help from another big and the same goes for Melo. Deng/(thier rookie) guarding Melo and STat against Gibson with Asik, Noah, or Boozer guarding a 3 behind the three. Its just dribble drive to the rim for Melo and STAT without any shot blockers. Chandler can do it occasionally but thats STATs game. Basically they will have to give up an easy jumper off the jab step for both guys.
Amar'e size just gives the second unit what they plus he gives them a go to guy.
Right now there is no other legitimate offensive option than Melo so he gets doubled...There are no other legitimate rebounding option in the first unit than Chandler but u want to make this permanent ??
holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:holfresh wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I will say this: Although I dislike this loss it shows me how well NY matches up with the Bulls. If STAT is willing to come of the bench there is no way they beat NY in a seven game series because they can not match up with Ny with Melo at the four.
I don't get this logic about Amare coming of the bench..The Knicks are getting killed on the boards..Absolutly slaughtered...Bulls are covering Melo with Deng who is a three??..Why is it advantageous for Melo to play the 4?
With the Bulls they Play hide the Boozer on D which forces them to put Noah on our three because they want Boozer on Chandler. If Fields drives the basket he can put major pressure on the Bulls. Also, as you saw late in the game if they go to Melo as a Point Forward with a PnR with Chandler it puts the Bulls in a bind because of Boozer defense and Noah not being able to give help. You even got to see several skip passes to open shooters because the Bulls loaded their D to stop Anthony. You also saw that Boozer is bad even when he tries to trap.
Now where does Amar'e come in: Having him come off the bench it gives that unit size not to be out rebounded. Novak and Jeffries do not match up with Asik and Gibson but throw amar'e into the mix and move Novak to the three and you have size plus Novak has Korver to match up with. Then on O the second unit has a go to guy. The Bulls would probably go Gibson on STAT which plays pretty well but Amar'e can do it. The real key is that mid to late minutes of the first and third where the second unit plays with Melo. Stat and Melo at the 4 and 5 is just to hard to cover when you have a four that can really dribble and a five that has a jumper. Then the double high post game is open for both players because STAT can take his man off the dribble from there without any help from another big and the same goes for Melo. Deng/(thier rookie) guarding Melo and STat against Gibson with Asik, Noah, or Boozer guarding a 3 behind the three. Its just dribble drive to the rim for Melo and STAT without any shot blockers. Chandler can do it occasionally but thats STATs game. Basically they will have to give up an easy jumper off the jab step for both guys.
Amar'e size just gives the second unit what they plus he gives them a go to guy.
Right now there is no other legitimate offensive option than Melo so he gets doubled...There are no other legitimate rebounding option in the first unit than Chandler but u want to make this permanent ??
But what if Amare being there as a viable second option hurts Melo as our first option. It's very possible (though not certain) and that is why very smart NBA people keep alluding to it.
I actually have no problem with Woody first trying to put Amare back at the 4 but hope he has the stones to change it if it hurts the team.
They were saying the same things about Melo playing with Lin...At some point these things have to make sense..
Melo cannot continue to take on the world by himself and be successful...Miami doesnt do it..Lakers don't do it...Melo is out only legit scoring option..How does adding STAT not help..
holfresh wrote:They were saying the same things about Melo playing with Lin...At some point these things have to make sense..
I never heard JVG say that about Lin/Melo. And it really does not have to make sense, it has to be proven on the court either way.
I just don't think it's good basketball asking Melo to take 30 shots with two guys on him..
holfresh wrote:I just don't think it's good basketball asking Melo to take 30 shots with two guys on him..
You are assuming that Amare will alleviate that and I hope you are right though I am not sure that it will.
Right now it doesn't matter how Amare comes back, we need a second scorer. Somebody who gets to the rim, gets fouls and can shoot around 50% any night. This is a tough lose, we do have help coming.
