Knicks · Keep same model with Carmelo at PF when Amare comes back---like Zach Randolph in Memphis (page 2)

bernard wrote:How often have opposing teams matched up their PF against Melo on D?

This issue has been discussed at length in this thread: http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.as...

Bonn1997 wrote:

bernard wrote:How often have opposing teams matched up their PF against Melo on D?

This issue has been discussed at length in this thread: http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.as...

I'd read that thread. My point was that it doesn't matter whether we play Melo at the 3 or 4 because the opposition covers him w/ a 3 anyway. My inclination is to figure out how many minutes you want the two to play. Make sure that 1 of them is on the court at all times. Make sure they both finish. I don't think it matters whether Stat starts or not if your rotations get done the two preceding things.

Memphis is s different team than us, they have four guys in the starting lineup than score in double figures and then they bring Mayo and Randolph off the bench so they always have a strong offensive unit. We don’t have that many offensive options on this team.
Honestly I don’t think you can beat super offensive team in the playoffs with Melo as your only option in the starting lineup, if we had Lin than probably I would feel a little different, since he can also score and can creates his own shot. I think the Knicks best chance this year includes Amare starting and I’m not even talking about how Melo at the three give us superior rebounding and a big starting unit.

against miami i think we match up much better with amar'e on bosh and melo on bron

We match up fine on defense. We just don't have enough scorers.

Bonn1997 wrote:We match up fine on defense. We just don't have enough scorers.

amar'e owns bosh. and melo can own lebron.

amar'e also helps our rebounding, even if he isn't the best rebounder in the world.

Bonn1997 wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

technomaster wrote:Fascinating. But Amare is a career 53% shooter. :) Don't you want him or Chandler (68% this year) taking all the shots? :)

I think we can have a pretty effective "small & quick" lineup with Amare at center and Carmelo at PF. Takes advantage of both Amare & 'Melo's relative quickness vs opposing players at those two positions.

airchibundo507 wrote:

Anji wrote:Second, you guys are MeloFan boys who only care about him "getting his" and not the team. -TKF

lol when a superstar is averaging 30 ppg on +50% FG, it is for the betterment of their team.

Even when Amare comes back I want Melo at power forward at least 50% of the time. Melo needs spacing to be effective.

Stat is good enough mid-range to play out on the Wong and let Melo have the post no matter who's playing SM and Who's playing PF. I don't particularly care who starts, but the lineup that finishes games will include Shumpert, Chandler, Stat, Lin and Anhony almost all the time.

Eh, I'm not convinced of that. Stat is no Dirk. I'm sure teams would much rather have Stat shoot 17 foot jump shots than Melo shoot in the paint. Or at least they should! Here are Amare's FG% numbers by location on the court:

At the rim: 69.3%
3-9 feet: 32.0%
10-16 feet: 29.4%
16-23 feet: 35.0%

Stat is a good mid-range shooter and is really great at taking opposing 4's to the hoop with his quickness so it can work. Melo and Stat would only be on the floor together for starts and finishes, with one or the other manning the floor so the Knicks have a scoring option.

bernard wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

bernard wrote:How often have opposing teams matched up their PF against Melo on D?

This issue has been discussed at length in this thread: http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.as...

I'd read that thread. My point was that it doesn't matter whether we play Melo at the 3 or 4 because the opposition covers him w/ a 3 anyway. My inclination is to figure out how many minutes you want the two to play. Make sure that 1 of them is on the court at all times. Make sure they both finish. I don't think it matters whether Stat starts or not if your rotations get done the two preceding things.

You're exactly right. The five best players on most teams don't always start, by the five best players always finish. Stat can still play starter minutes and finish games and contribute at a high level even if he doesn't "start."

y2zipper wrote:

bernard wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

bernard wrote:How often have opposing teams matched up their PF against Melo on D?

This issue has been discussed at length in this thread: http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.as...

I'd read that thread. My point was that it doesn't matter whether we play Melo at the 3 or 4 because the opposition covers him w/ a 3 anyway. My inclination is to figure out how many minutes you want the two to play. Make sure that 1 of them is on the court at all times. Make sure they both finish. I don't think it matters whether Stat starts or not if your rotations get done the two preceding things.

You're exactly right. The five best players on most teams don't always start, by the five best players always finish. Stat can still play starter minutes and finish games and contribute at a high level even if he doesn't "start."

But why wouldn’t Amare start? Is not like we have someone descent as a backup four in this team. Amare starting will probably send Field to the bench, which I think may be a good thing considering the way he is playing.

the problem is we havent seen Melo/Amare play well together for much of a stretch. The other problem is Amare's jumper that was liquid smooth last year has been a sack of bricks. Melo is a monster in the post, and Melo vs. SFs is about as good a post matchup as you get in the NBA. Amare vs. PFs is good too, but I would put Melo ahead of him. However when their jumpers arent falling its a crowd in the post.

Amare's jumper has been bad this year. Melo's jumper very inconsistant. Both are needed to create space. Throw Chandler in there and its a crowd in the paint. I feel jury is still on them as an effective 1-2.

fishmike wrote:the problem is we havent seen Melo/Amare play well together for much of a stretch. The other problem is Amare's jumper that was liquid smooth last year has been a sack of bricks. Melo is a monster in the post, and Melo vs. SFs is about as good a post matchup as you get in the NBA. Amare vs. PFs is good too, but I would put Melo ahead of him. However when their jumpers arent falling its a crowd in the post.

Amare's jumper has been bad this year. Melo's jumper very inconsistant. Both are needed to create space. Throw Chandler in there and its a crowd in the paint. I feel jury is still on them as an effective 1-2.

I agree that the jury still on them since they haven’t play effectively together (and it gets crowded in the post when their shots are not falling), but with Amare at the four we become a bigger and a much better rebounding team, which is essential in beating Miami or Chicago (great rebounding teams) if we meet them in the first round.
Also, is not like Field is spreading the floor for Melo these days, so honestly, I will take my chances with Amare, Chandler and Melo starting and JR and Shumpert finishing the games in the back court for us.

I heard Shaq yesterday saying that when Amare returns, he should come off the bench and be the ultimate score for the Knicks, Jeff Van Gundy mentioned the same thing the other day. Since those two guys have forgotten more basketball than I will ever know, I realize that this should be the way to go now, even if I don’t completely agree with it.

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:the problem is we havent seen Melo/Amare play well together for much of a stretch. The other problem is Amare's jumper that was liquid smooth last year has been a sack of bricks. Melo is a monster in the post, and Melo vs. SFs is about as good a post matchup as you get in the NBA. Amare vs. PFs is good too, but I would put Melo ahead of him. However when their jumpers arent falling its a crowd in the post.

Amare's jumper has been bad this year. Melo's jumper very inconsistant. Both are needed to create space. Throw Chandler in there and its a crowd in the paint. I feel jury is still on them as an effective 1-2.

I agree that the jury still on them since they haven’t play effectively together (and it gets crowded in the post when their shots are not falling), but with Amare at the four we become a bigger and a much better rebounding team, which is essential in beating Miami or Chicago (great rebounding teams) if we meet them in the first round.
Also, is not like Field is spreading the floor for Melo these days, so honestly, I will take my chances with Amare, Chandler and Melo starting and JR and Shumpert finishing the games in the back court for us.

I heard Shaq yesterday saying that when Amare returns, he should come off the bench and be the ultimate score for the Knicks, Jeff Van Gundy mentioned the same thing the other day. Since those two guys have forgotten more basketball than I will ever know, I realize that this should be the way to go now, even if I don’t completely agree with it.

I heard Shaq yesterday saying that when Amare returns, he should come off the bench and be the ultimate score for the Knicks, Jeff Van Gundy mentioned the same thing the other day.

Since those two guys have forgotten more basketball than I will ever know, I realize that this should be the way to go now, even if I don’t completely agree with it.

Since Carmelo Anthony has gone off since March 26, averaging exactly 30 points per game entering Tuesday, there are those who are concerned that by adding Amare Stoudemire to the starting lineup will disrupt what Melo's been doing.

But Mike Woodson has made it clear that STAT will not come off the bench, and that his immediate role will not cause any disruptions

"We just want him to get healthy," the coach said. "I don't think there will be adjustments. I am pretty sure he will fit right in. Our biggest thing is for him to get healthy. We will need him down the stretch."

I, for one, believe Woodson is making the right decision. While the stats indicate Anthony and Stoudemire score more when the other is sitting, together they'll benefit the entire offense by putting more pressure on the defense to start games. There's not enough of that consistently right now. Eventually, more double teams (on Anthony and Stoudemire) will lead to better spacing, which will lead to more open shots. Jumping out on leads is always important, and the Knicks will have a better shot at doing that with both them on the court right away.

Stoudemire will not get in the way of what Anthony has been doing. He's a guy who will sacrifice touches for the greater good of the team. In fact, if Anthony passes like he did tonight (10 assists), then Stoudemire will love playing with him. He'll find an ocean of room to shoot his patented midrange jumpshot. Of course, both will have to sacrifice a little for their playing relationship to work, but they've already done that -- and it worked.

From the time Mike Woodson first took over the team on March 14, to the last game Stoudemire played on March 24 before going down with a bulging disk, the Knicks went 6-1. And that was with Anthony and Stoudemire in the starting lineup together, which resulted in standout team production usually surpassing 100 points.

The biggest challenge then offensively was that Anthony wasn't as healthy as Stoudemire. Melo was still dealing with a right wrist injury. Now that he's 100 percent and Stoudemire should be fine when he returns this Friday or Sunday, that will make their combined offense and defense even better, and, as a result, benefit the entire team.

LIke MDA before, Woodson needs to go with the best players for his starting 5.

We are not elite with Amare off the bench. We could be with him starting.

MDA failed to achieve this but Woodson is doing a better job on defense.

Amare has to find his legs and rhythm. Like BabyKNicks said, we went 6-1.

Amare need only avg 10pts and 6 boards and he will contribute for the last 6 games.

Lets see if he can stay on the floor before we judge chemistry.

I think they can definitely work together in this system right now is Shump is starting. Amar'e will provide more rim protection and give another person defenses has to worry about. The way Melo is playing it does not matter right now who is in the line up with him. Also the energy he will be able to play at on both ends with out the burden of carrying the team offensively. The thing people are overlooking is that you can still get the same result, playing with the second unit, by working the minutes. All you do is pull Amar'e early and start him the second quarter.