Knicks · Phoenix training staff (page 2)

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

Pure speculation..

mrKnickShot wrote:It was and"untanglement". That does not sound like a joke.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

Pure speculation..

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

MozelGovCocktail wrote:Billups was handed 14m, then waived. That's a fact.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

Pure speculation..

So how do you know that Donnie was fighting against including Billups as part of the deal?

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

MozelGovCocktail wrote:He had a buyout of less than 4m. And that was no secret.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.

Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Bro I have no clue about what you are talking about ..Everytime I hone in on an idea of what you might be talking about you go off on another tangent..good luck ..

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The climate of the Giants franchise, upon inception of that scenario, bears little to no resemblance to that of the Knicks. And the climate of the Knicks f/o is what's at the core of my initial contention.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

Please explain. I have no idea what you mean. The point of contention was you stating what you believe as fact - that the Knicks gave up too much.

My point was that everyone said the same thing with Eli since they rushed to judgement. A few years later, everyone changed their tune.

You can't judge this trade and most trades (like this) for 3 to 4 years. Anyway, I believe that many of us feel that at this point with what we already know, would make the trade again.

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The climate of the Giants franchise, upon inception of that scenario, bears little to no resemblance to that of the Knicks. And the climate of the Knicks f/o is what's at the core of my initial contention.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

First of all, put down the thesaurus; using large words doesn't make you sound intelligent. Second of all, the Giants had just come off a 4-win season and fired their head coach. Third of all, nobody knew what the new CBA was going contain, so we didn't have much of a choice but to pick up Billups' option.

VCoug wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The climate of the Giants franchise, upon inception of that scenario, bears little to no resemblance to that of the Knicks. And the climate of the Knicks f/o is what's at the core of my initial contention.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

First of all, put down the thesaurus; using large words doesn't make you sound intelligent. Second of all, the Giants had just come off a 4-win season and fired their head coach. Third of all, nobody knew what the new CBA was going contain, so we didn't have much of a choice but to pick up Billups' option.

You talking to me?

mrKnickShot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The climate of the Giants franchise, upon inception of that scenario, bears little to no resemblance to that of the Knicks. And the climate of the Knicks f/o is what's at the core of my initial contention.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

First of all, put down the thesaurus; using large words doesn't make you sound intelligent. Second of all, the Giants had just come off a 4-win season and fired their head coach. Third of all, nobody knew what the new CBA was going contain, so we didn't have much of a choice but to pick up Billups' option.

You talking to me?

mrKnickShot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The climate of the Giants franchise, upon inception of that scenario, bears little to no resemblance to that of the Knicks. And the climate of the Knicks f/o is what's at the core of my initial contention.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

First of all, put down the thesaurus; using large words doesn't make you sound intelligent. Second of all, the Giants had just come off a 4-win season and fired their head coach. Third of all, nobody knew what the new CBA was going contain, so we didn't have much of a choice but to pick up Billups' option.

You talking to me?

MozelGov.

VCoug wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

VCoug wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The climate of the Giants franchise, upon inception of that scenario, bears little to no resemblance to that of the Knicks. And the climate of the Knicks f/o is what's at the core of my initial contention.

mrKnickShot wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:That the Knicks overpayed for Melo is pretty much common knowledge.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:No.
Billups may not have been forced into the Melo deal by Denver had Walsh been given full control of the trade in the first place.

Billups was then extended for 14 million.

Then amnestied.

Those moves do not paint the picture of a harmonious f/o to me.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:The amnesty power could be available to the Knicks still had the f/o navigated the Melo trade properly. If you want to celebrate that as a stroke of genius, I can't stop you.

holfresh wrote:

MozelGovCocktail wrote:You guys have to be kidding. So now the Knicks front office is in harmony?

I really shouldn't have to provide a detailed description of the head butting and position jockeying that's gone on over the past few years.

Taking comfort in using the amnesty power on Chauncey Billups? What a joke. That was an untanglement.

Using the Amnesty on Chauncey got us Chandler...Are u being sarcastic?

So you are saying signing Chandler was not a good move and that holding out for an unknown would have been the better move??

We also picked up Billups' option after the season ended.. We had no clue that there would be an Amnesty clause in the new CBA..

Just like everyone said the Giants overpaid for Eli. Make that determination in 3 years.

First of all, put down the thesaurus; using large words doesn't make you sound intelligent. Second of all, the Giants had just come off a 4-win season and fired their head coach. Third of all, nobody knew what the new CBA was going contain, so we didn't have much of a choice but to pick up Billups' option.

You talking to me?

MozelGov.

Haha - sorry. I was confused because I don't even know any big words

VCoug wrote:First of all, put down the thesaurus; using large words doesn't make you sound intelligent. Second of all, the Giants had just come off a 4-win season and fired their head coach. Third of all, nobody knew what the new CBA was going contain, so we didn't have much of a choice but to pick up Billups' option.

However, I will argue that there was a choice in picking up Billups' option. Thats's why it's called an option. Chauncey was worried that his option wasn't going to be picked up, I'm not sure why you seem to remember it as a no-brainer.

Furthermore, there was also a chance that Walsh could have streamlined the deal to avoid including Felton and/or accepting Billups. That Dolan jumped the gun and took matters out of Walsh's hands is widely accepted as an undeniable truth.

For a basis to the theory that Walsh was left off the negotitation table, I cite the fact that mega trades, in any and all sports, tend to go down to the wire, in attempt to make the other side blink. Any abberation in the pattern is likely illustrative of:

a. A fleece
b. A steal
c. Outside influence (i.e., money, prior arrangements, etc.)

The Anthony trade timeline did not fit the mold which has taken shape across the history of sports, thus, I state, with confidence, that it was a lopsided fleece in Denver's favor. If the Knicks win a championship with Anthony in tow, it will serve as a relief, but will not prove that the Knicks have seen the light as an organization.

I prefer a cohesive organizational philosophy to an owner, GM and coaches hopping over one another. If you go back and read the thread (instead of rudely hopping in and barking insulting orders), you'd see that's what I originally stated. Had the team been operating effectively, there's every reason to believe that the amnesty could be available for something major (Amare?) going forward.

(sorry if I went big on you there with some of the words, as Samuel Jackson would say; "I'm tryin, Ringo")

They offered 3 years years 4 and 5 based on his ability to play big minutes in years 3 and 4 to make the following seasons contract.

More important is a front office willing to listen.

Once upon a time we signed Ewing to an extension whose heart was in the right place but mind was not connected to his knees. The 1999 talent was growing but we had this old guy eating up a lot of money.

We needed a star and despite logic, we gave Amare what nobody else would.

Sometimes you have to make a tough choice for the long term. We don't think like that.

Those who love Melo and the star power he brings can't see this.

Nothing wrong with it by the way. The knicks are a good team and drawing well.