I give permission to thrash me for starting this thread. I will even arrange a date for me to be tied up and stoned. But im listening to radio and all I hear is everyone in the media say how can Melo be playing at such a high level under Woodson and he must've really hated Dantoni. You tell me how was Melo suppose to put up the numbers he is putting up now under Dantoni when he was running the offense through Lin and wanted Melo in the corner shooting 3's in the flow if the offense. Making him no more important than Landry Fields chucking and bricking open 3's? How does this critique of Melo make any sense?
mrKnickShot@ 4/19/2012 7:25 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I give permission to thrash me for starting this thread. I will even arrange a date for me to be tied up and stoned. But im listening to radio and all I hear is everyone in the media say how can Melo be playing at such a high level under Woodson and he must've really hated Dantoni. You tell me how was Melo suppose to put up the numbers he is putting up now under Dantoni when he was running the offense through Lin and wanted Melo in the corner shooting 3's in the flow if the offense. Making him no more important than Landry Fields chucking and bricking open 3's? How does this critique of Melo make any sense?
Ban HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SupremeCommander@ 4/19/2012 7:31 PM
D'Antoni is the equivalent of Mike Martz... MArtz won a Super Bowl. Was an offensive genius. But couldn't keep a spot in the league because he loved his genius more than anything and refused to make the best of what's around. I'm sorry, Melo should always get the the ball in either the post or further out from the elbow. It's that fucking simple. Make what you have work instead of being like 'I am Pringles and I am great. Do it my way. Trade one of the ten best players in the league or let me walk. I know I quit on the team before I stumbled into Jeremy Lin, and I know I don't give two shits about defense, but I'm telling you, if we shoot 30 3s tonight we just might have a shot of winning.' I am so fucking glad that small ball hack is no longer associated with the Knicks. Next thread
GustavBahler@ 4/19/2012 7:33 PM
I think some of you are suffering from PDSD: "Post D'Antoni Stress Disorder"
Anji@ 4/19/2012 7:34 PM
Supreme is bring the fucking Heat today.
SupremeCommander@ 4/19/2012 7:37 PM
Anji wrote:Supreme is bring the fucking Heat today.
fuck the fucking Heat!!
BigDaddyG@ 4/19/2012 7:51 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:D'Antoni is the equivalent of Mike Martz... MArtz won a Super Bowl. Was an offensive genius. But couldn't keep a spot in the league because he loved his genius more than anything and refused to make the best of what's around. I'm sorry, Melo should always get the the ball in either the post or further out from the elbow. It's that fucking simple. Make what you have work instead of being like 'I am Pringles and I am great. Do it my way. Trade one of the ten best players in the league or let me walk. I know I quit on the team before I stumbled into Jeremy Lin, and I know I don't give two shits about defense, but I'm telling you, if we shoot 30 3s tonight we just might have a shot of winning.' I am so fucking glad that small ball hack is no longer associated with the Knicks. Next thread
Bonn1997@ 4/19/2012 7:51 PM
Well the confounding factor is that Lin and Amare have been injured. I don't know if Melo can be nearly as effective with other ball-dominant players. And I don't mean putting up the same # of points. I mean scoring with the same efficiency.
loweyecue@ 4/19/2012 7:52 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I give permission to thrash me for starting this thread. I will even arrange a date for me to be tied up and stoned. But im listening to radio and all I hear is everyone in the media say how can Melo be playing at such a high level under Woodson and he must've really hated Dantoni. You tell me how was Melo suppose to put up the numbers he is putting up now under Dantoni when he was running the offense through Lin and wanted Melo in the corner shooting 3's in the flow if the offense. Making him no more important than Landry Fields chucking and bricking open 3's? How does this critique of Melo make any sense?
You will find what people questioned and still question was Melo's effort and NOT his numbers. If Amare could string together 10+ 30 pt games in a row within the flow of the offense(that he had last year) so could Meli given his skills if he had tried to. And people also question the almost zero defense he played despite Woodson coaching defense even during the MDA part if the season.
This is not hard to understand. Now you and other fans have your opinion of MDA and everything he did was crap according to you and Melo couldn't possibly have done any wrong in your eyes as evidenced by yet another thread. Other people see it differently.OK?
mrKnickShot@ 4/19/2012 7:59 PM
loweyecue wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I give permission to thrash me for starting this thread. I will even arrange a date for me to be tied up and stoned. But im listening to radio and all I hear is everyone in the media say how can Melo be playing at such a high level under Woodson and he must've really hated Dantoni. You tell me how was Melo suppose to put up the numbers he is putting up now under Dantoni when he was running the offense through Lin and wanted Melo in the corner shooting 3's in the flow if the offense. Making him no more important than Landry Fields chucking and bricking open 3's? How does this critique of Melo make any sense?
You will find what people questioned and still question was Melo's effort and NOT his numbers. If Amare could string together 10+ 30 pt games in a row within the flow of the offense(that he had last year) so could Meli given his skills if he had tried to. And people also question the almost zero defense he played despite Woodson coaching defense even during the MDA part if the season.
This is not hard to understand. Now you and other fans have your opinion of MDA and everything he did was crap according to you and Melo couldn't possibly have done any wrong in your eyes as evidenced by yet another thread. Other people see it differently.OK?
They were both at fault. Case closed. Anyone who says differently is just being partisan (IMHO).
Uptown@ 4/19/2012 8:11 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:D'Antoni is the equivalent of Mike Martz... MArtz won a Super Bowl. Was an offensive genius. But couldn't keep a spot in the league because he loved his genius more than anything and refused to make the best of what's around. I'm sorry, Melo should always get the the ball in either the post or further out from the elbow. It's that fucking simple. Make what you have work instead of being like 'I am Pringles and I am great. Do it my way. Trade one of the ten best players in the league or let me walk. I know I quit on the team before I stumbled into Jeremy Lin, and I know I don't give two shits about defense, but I'm telling you, if we shoot 30 3s tonight we just might have a shot of winning.' I am so fucking glad that small ball hack is no longer associated with the Knicks. Next thread
nixluva@ 4/19/2012 8:20 PM
I'm so tired of all this nonsense, exaggerations and lies. Let's try to actually back up the crap people keep spouting with some facts!!!
For much of the early season MDA had EVERYTHING go thru Melo. No coach has ever given him that much latitude to call his own number and also setup his teammates. It was new to him and it wasn't easy but he was actually making some progress. Melo was getting PLENTY of shots wherever he wanted them. It's a LIE to suggest that he was held back. This is what Melo was doing before he got hurt. Note how many shots he was taking per game before he sat down supposedly to heal up.
DATE MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS Jan. 35.6 8.3-21.1 .393 1.4-4.4 .311 5.4-6.8 .789 6.7 4.6 0.4 1.3 2.4 3.4 23.3
When Melo came back he was asked to blend in at that time because the team was winning playing the way they were with him out!!! This wasn't the case ALL YEAR as some make it seem. Under MDA he was taking 4.4 3pt attempts and under Woody he was at 3.3 last month and is at 4.6 this month. So where is this idea that MDA had Melo stuck out on the 3pt line not getting shots?
Here are Melo's game logs for the 10 games he played after he came back up until MDA resigned.
DATE OPP SCORE MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS Mon 2/20 vs NJ L 92-100 37 4-11 .364 0-0 .000 3-6 .500 3 6 0 1 3 6 11 Wed 2/22 vs ATL W 99-82 27 7-16 .438 1-2 .500 0-0 .000 4 3 1 2 1 2 15 Thu 2/23 @ MIA L 88-102 35 7-20 .350 1-1 1.000 4-4 1.000 7 1 1 0 4 1 19 Wed 2/29 vs CLE W 120-103 34 9-16 .563 1-3 .333 3-5 .600 5 4 0 0 3 0 22 Mon 3/12 @ Chi L 99-104 39 8-21 .381 1-3 .333 4-4 1.000 8 3 1 2 4 2 21 Sun 3/4 @ BOS L 111-115 35 8-21 .381 0-1 .000 9-10 .900 7 2 0 0 4 3 25 Tue 3/6 @ DAL L 85-95 31 2-12 .167 0-3 .000 2-4 .500 8 1 0 0 1 2 6 Wed 3/7 @ SA L 105-118 38 12-24 .500 3-7 .429 0-1 .000 2 3 0 2 5 2 27 Fri 3/9 @ MIL L 114-119 37 7-17 .412 1-2 .500 7-10 .700 5 2 2 1 1 2 22 Sun 3/11 vs PHI L 94-106 29 5-13 .385 1-4 .250 11-12 .917 9 3 0 0 2 1 22
Too many of you guys are making a 10 game stretch into the narrative of the entire season under MDA. After Melo came back he averaged 17 shots a game. So under MDA he avg'd 21 shots before Linsanity and 17 after. Melo's shooting % didn't improve under Woody until March 28th the Orlando game. So basically for 12 games he's been on fire and avging 23 shots a game. Outside of that his performance was poor offensively. None of this takes into account how he magically improved his effort level on Defense and has been much more cooperative in doing many of the same things he was asked to do under MDA.
The truth is that Melo just stunk and it had nothing to do with MDA. He stunk cuz he just stunk. It wasn't number of shots or him being forced to stand around the 3 pt line. He wasn't hitting the MANY shots he was given period. His attitude was poor and it effected his game on both ends.
MozelGovCocktail@ 4/19/2012 8:21 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:They were both at fault. Case closed. Anyone who says differently is just being partisan (IMHO).
Co-signed.
nixluva@ 4/19/2012 8:38 PM
MozelGovCocktail wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:They were both at fault. Case closed. Anyone who says differently is just being partisan (IMHO).
Co-signed.
Ugh NOT! See the post above for FACTS!!!
BasketballJones@ 4/19/2012 8:42 PM
Keep on working over this bone fellas. As I recall, it took quite a while to cleanse the palate after LB's time here as well.
CrushAlot@ 4/19/2012 8:52 PM
loweyecue wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I give permission to thrash me for starting this thread. I will even arrange a date for me to be tied up and stoned. But im listening to radio and all I hear is everyone in the media say how can Melo be playing at such a high level under Woodson and he must've really hated Dantoni. You tell me how was Melo suppose to put up the numbers he is putting up now under Dantoni when he was running the offense through Lin and wanted Melo in the corner shooting 3's in the flow if the offense. Making him no more important than Landry Fields chucking and bricking open 3's? How does this critique of Melo make any sense?
You will find what people questioned and still question was Melo's effort and NOT his numbers. If Amare could string together 10+ 30 pt games in a row within the flow of the offense(that he had last year) so could Meli given his skills if he had tried to. And people also question the almost zero defense he played despite Woodson coaching defense even during the MDA part if the season.
This is not hard to understand. Now you and other fans have your opinion of MDA and everything he did was crap according to you and Melo couldn't possibly have done any wrong in your eyes as evidenced by yet another thread. Other people see it differently.OK?
I think you are making a lot of assumptions here. I think there was a lot wrong with how D'Antoni coached this team and I have posted on that topic over and over. I am not the biggest Anthony fan and I hated the trade. That being said, D'Antoni spent his time in NY trying to get guys to fit what he wanted them to do not run his team to his players strengths. If you think an accomplished star isn't going to have some issues with being asked to play in a manner that doesn't emphasize his strengths and minimizes his talents I think you are wrong. Supreme nailed it and might have the post of 2012. I think you have to expect an explosion of a reaction from fans that have been frustrated for four years with a coach who was more about making his style work than making the players on his team better now that he is finally gone and the team is finally winning and playing defense. Melo is playing out of his mind under Woodson. Here's the thing though, the rest of the Knick team is playing really well under Woodson. Its not just Melo trying now, Woodson is doing something right with these guys that hasn't happened in NY in a long time.
y2zipper@ 4/19/2012 8:54 PM
nixluva wrote:The truth is that Melo just stunk and it had nothing to do with MDA. He stunk cuz he just stunk. It wasn't number of shots or him being forced to stand around the 3 pt line. He wasn't hitting the MANY shots he was given period. His attitude was poor and it effected his game on both ends.
Nice post.
Melo "stinking" was a product of his shot not falling and not much else, the wrist and groin injuries notwithstanding. It's a reach to argue that his attitude and defensive effort were poor, especially with how good the Knicks defense has been over the course of the entire year. I'm not completely absolving him of "fault" in this situation, but I think the fight was overblown to begin with.
nixluva@ 4/19/2012 8:59 PM
y2zipper wrote:
nixluva wrote:The truth is that Melo just stunk and it had nothing to do with MDA. He stunk cuz he just stunk. It wasn't number of shots or him being forced to stand around the 3 pt line. He wasn't hitting the MANY shots he was given period. His attitude was poor and it effected his game on both ends.
Nice post.
Melo "stinking" was a product of his shot not falling and not much else, the wrist and groin injuries notwithstanding. It's a reach to argue that his attitude and defensive effort were poor, especially with how good the Knicks defense has been over the course of the entire year. I'm not completely absolving him of "fault" in this situation, but I think the fight was overblown to begin with.
I have to disagree only in that i'm talking about the 10 game stretch where he came back and WAS NOT defending hard like he did the exact day MDA resigned and every game after that. There was a clear shift in his effort level from that day forward. He wasn't not defending all year, but clearly was during that losing streak before MDA resigned.
markvmc@ 4/19/2012 9:04 PM
Please, for the love of god, just stop. Enjoy the games now we're finally winning.
CrushAlot@ 4/19/2012 9:13 PM
Wise words from Mase.
“I admire [Lin], but Carmelo had to fit in to a first-time player? Are you serious?” Mason said. “I think [Lin will] be good and he can contribute, but not as far as taking the ball from one of the hardest players in the league to defend.
mrKnickShot wrote:They were both at fault. Case closed. Anyone who says differently is just being partisan (IMHO).
Co-signed.
Ugh NOT! See the post above for FACTS!!!
I am aware of the facts. And I do not absolve Anthony for his treasonous ways.
I also think it's fair to say that D'Antoni was less than stellar in his approach to a rogue player.
Ultimately, D'Antoni was unable to produce a state of cohesion, and I commend him for his timing in stepping down.
What grows more obvious, is that Woodson has benefitted from 'addition by subtraction', as Anthony has flourished at the 4. D'Antoni could not create that lineup with Stoudemire's presence.
Going forward, Woodson's (and Anthony's) challenge lies in optimizing all Knicks players performance simultaneously, including Stoudemire and Lin.
There is no doubt that Anthony's current role and subsequent glorification will reduce with the return of the players mentioned.
Time will reveal if Anthony accepts and conquers the challenge, or reverts to a disheartened state and pouts his way to disgrace.
