I'm not happy to see Stat in the starting line-up. We now have to change what was working for us and build chemistry again, but in 3 games. That is not possible, stupid stupid stupid. Look at how that worked out for the Bulls and Rose.
Not to mention that Melo is playing another position some of the time (depends if it's offense or defense).
I hope I am proven wrong, but get the feeling that we are going to be playing from behind come playoffs.
EMS
The goal is always to win a Championship ..Knicks aren't winning without STAT, not this time...So it's either get him going or watch Melo jack 30/35 shots per...We have to compete rebounding, if we don't it all mute anyway...We need STAT, We want STAT on that Wall...Or else it's a first round exit or second round if we are lucky...
The way STAT was positioned and moving the Offense will be fine if he knocks the rust off. They had him coming off screens and really out on the wings for the first quarter. The second quarter will be his time to take the elbow and post area while also being the primary screen and roll guy. Maybe him and Davis/Bibby can get something going with the second unit. It was not STAt fault that Melo could not dribble or the refs continue not to call anything when he drives to the rim for the most part.
I just wonder after the last two games do you also move Bibby into the starting lineup. On Offense he gives you a little shooting and he is more careful with the ball plus he will push it but I do not like his defense against Chicago. I do think he can play with Chalmers though. Against the Bulls he would have to chase Rip which Baron is better at. So do you want someone that is carefull to a fault or the more the boom or bust? Old or injured?
Chemistry makes it deceptively sound like it just needs more time rather than being a poor fit. The team is 28-37 in games with Melo and Amare now.
Amazing, for a few games fans praising the team with new "Knick" names and all kinds of adulation from adoring posts offended by Sir Charles and then "boom" we have a bad game and now we all down in the dumps second guessing the dude that got us on a 15-6 run!
The Melo-JR-Novak surge must be on in order for us to win. Our team thrives on that.
Without it we stand around.
The Cavs announcers nailed it last nite saying they won the game on energy not on talent.
The Smiley one can't do it every nite. Bernard King didn't either.
JR smith is the "New Starks"? If so, then don't forget the other games when he was out of control or stone cold.
We got owned by some dude named "Sumardo" last nite.
Its gonna happen.
Roll with it and enjoy the good. Sir Charles and other haters hate for a reason.
The answer is on the court. Tune in or tune out.
I see your points and almost feel like switching opinions but I'm a bit split still. I realize we need Stat to advance, but why not work him into the lineup by bringing him off the bench? Might be less of a shock to the starting chemistry, especially since the offense was going through Melo. I mean, we are essentially changing our offense by adding Stat right now and the shock of that can be bad.
I wasn't at all saying last nights game was a precursor though. The Stat to come off the bench suggestion was mentioned a while ago as well by Briggs I think.
Well, perhaps we come back here after the playoffs start and I will gladly say I was wrong, gladly.
In sports, it's always better to drop them in and adjust over time...lakers got owned by San Antonio in Kobe's first game back and they aren't panicking either.
Sunday game should be awesome.
babyKnicks wrote:In sports, it's always better to drop them in and adjust over time...lakers got owned by San Antonio in Kobe's first game back and they aren't panicking either.Sunday game should be awesome.
the cavs are not the spurs..This was a lousy effort..tyson chandler played horrible, melo took a back seat to try and get amare involved, and the board work was really bad..
I think despite the loss, that the team ran thru the sets pretty well with the starting lineup. They just didn't hit shots, but they were open. The real issue is defensive chemistry, which is a big deal. STAT was slow on D and overall isn't that good anyway, but he had stepped up his effort in games just before he went down with the back injury. Hopefully he can get back to that.
nixluva wrote:I think despite the loss, that the team ran thru the sets pretty well with the starting lineup. They just didn't hit shots, but they were open. The real issue is defensive chemistry, which is a big deal. STAT was slow on D and overall isn't that good anyway, but he had stepped up his effort in games just before he went down with the back injury. Hopefully he can get back to that.
That's what I really hated about the injury. Amar'e had a chance to really start changing his mind set and see the results of actively playing good defense. I think with a few games he can get back into the groves.
Papabear Says
Amare is getting too many shots blocked on the inside. Sometime I think that his hands are made of jello. His jump shot is not falling. It will come to the point that if Amare can't step up his defense take him out of the game. I would rather see Fields in there.Look I really like Amare as a person but if we want to become competitive next season Amare and Melo should restructure thier contracts.
nixluva wrote:I think despite the loss, that the team ran thru the sets pretty well with the starting lineup. They just didn't hit shots, but they were open. The real issue is defensive chemistry, which is a big deal. STAT was slow on D and overall isn't that good anyway, but he had stepped up his effort in games just before he went down with the back injury. Hopefully he can get back to that.
I've hurt my back before (quite recently actually) and can say with football (on offense) I can mostly do what I want to do, as I step where and when I want. But on Defense. THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Someone puts a move on you and you can pinch that nerve trying to adjust when just out of position. When you have a recovering back you sort of sense that can be the case. So, I don't think Stat is capable of playing defense as well as before (which isn't much). He did have some blocks, but those small, sharp and quick movements are probably going to be cut back on, just on instinct alone.
I do hope we find a way as we have talent. I just think bringing Stat off the bench and then overlaying his minutes with Melo is a lot less shocking and then the adjustment goes both ways. Throwing Stat into the starting lineup, the other starters, including Melo, are now trying to fit him in. This is all good, but not when you have 4 games, now 3, to figure it out.
And we can see chemistry can be affected in many ways. The rhythm can be off, which then makes your shots off, and your defense is just a little off which means Chandler has to do more in the middle (foul trouble?), etc. I just think this is a big giant thing to try right now and would have rather seen it in stages, just think that way would have been more productive.
earthmansurfer wrote:nixluva wrote:I think despite the loss, that the team ran thru the sets pretty well with the starting lineup. They just didn't hit shots, but they were open. The real issue is defensive chemistry, which is a big deal. STAT was slow on D and overall isn't that good anyway, but he had stepped up his effort in games just before he went down with the back injury. Hopefully he can get back to that.
I've hurt my back before (quite recently actually) and can say with football (on offense) I can mostly do what I want to do, as I step where and when I want. But on Defense. THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Someone puts a move on you and you can pinch that nerve trying to adjust when just out of position. When you have a recovering back you sort of sense that can be the case. So, I don't think Stat is capable of playing defense as well as before (which isn't much). He did have some blocks, but those small, sharp and quick movements are probably going to be cut back on, just on instinct alone.
I do hope we find a way as we have talent. I just think bringing Stat off the bench and then overlaying his minutes with Melo is a lot less shocking and then the adjustment goes both ways. Throwing Stat into the starting lineup, the other starters, including Melo, are now trying to fit him in. This is all good, but not when you have 4 games, now 3, to figure it out.
And we can see chemistry can be affected in many ways. The rhythm can be off, which then makes your shots off, and your defense is just a little off which means Chandler has to do more in the middle (foul trouble?), etc. I just think this is a big giant thing to try right now and would have rather seen it in stages, just think that way would have been more productive.
This whole debate about whether or not STAT should start puzzles me...You guys think Melo isn't playing 40 mins a night in the playoffs??..Where will STAT be in those 40 mins??..
Holfresh - But you do know Amare has a bulging disk and at any moment that nerve can get re-pinched or aggravated. Why risk trying to get the chemistry going if he may get hurt, not be 100% on defense or offense, etc and be back out of the lineup? Yeah, he will get his minutes, but not if he is sucking out there.
The starting lineup is VERY IMPORTANT. If one cog in the wheel is off it can totally derail the train. Didn't mean all those expressions, but you get the point. ;-)
So, the bigger question is, do you (we) think he is going to get 40 minutes a night if he is doing the matador defense that made him famous? Woody won't stand for that but I'm not sure Stat can play good defense coming back from that injury.
Again, I really really hope I'm wrong but we seem a bit split on it here, though I'd say Amare starting seems to be the flavor right now.
earthmansurfer wrote:Holfresh - But you do know Amare has a bulging disk and at any moment that nerve can get re-pinched or aggravated. Why risk trying to get the chemistry going if he may get hurt, not be 100% on defense or offense, etc and be back out of the lineup? Yeah, he will get his minutes, but not if he is sucking out there.The starting lineup is VERY IMPORTANT. If one cog in the wheel is off it can totally derail the train. Didn't mean all those expressions, but you get the point. ;-)
So, the bigger question is, do you (we) think he is going to get 40 minutes a night if he is doing the matador defense that made him famous? Woody won't stand for that but I'm not sure Stat can play good defense coming back from that injury.
Again, I really really hope I'm wrong but we seem a bit split on it here, though I'd say Amare starting seems to be the flavor right now.
Melo and Amare playing together is unavoidable...It's going to happen...Also, If the Knicks play the Heat and with the coach's job tenuous at best, will he be able to justify sitting the second best player on a 7th seed team against a second seeded team starting their 3 best players??..Ain't going to happen ..
Amare looked rusty but he looked healthy to me, give it time. Without Amare Knicks don't have shot at beating Miami or Chicago bottom line
The goal is always winning a Championship...Knicks cannot win it without Amare...I would rather see Amare shooting threes in the playoff than Fields...I think the important ingredient is continuing to run the offense thru Melo..Amare will have to adjust playing off Melo...Amare played decent defense before he went down, we saw rust yesterday ..He will need a few games under his belt..
holfresh wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:nixluva wrote:I think despite the loss, that the team ran thru the sets pretty well with the starting lineup. They just didn't hit shots, but they were open. The real issue is defensive chemistry, which is a big deal. STAT was slow on D and overall isn't that good anyway, but he had stepped up his effort in games just before he went down with the back injury. Hopefully he can get back to that.
I've hurt my back before (quite recently actually) and can say with football (on offense) I can mostly do what I want to do, as I step where and when I want. But on Defense. THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Someone puts a move on you and you can pinch that nerve trying to adjust when just out of position. When you have a recovering back you sort of sense that can be the case. So, I don't think Stat is capable of playing defense as well as before (which isn't much). He did have some blocks, but those small, sharp and quick movements are probably going to be cut back on, just on instinct alone.
I do hope we find a way as we have talent. I just think bringing Stat off the bench and then overlaying his minutes with Melo is a lot less shocking and then the adjustment goes both ways. Throwing Stat into the starting lineup, the other starters, including Melo, are now trying to fit him in. This is all good, but not when you have 4 games, now 3, to figure it out.
And we can see chemistry can be affected in many ways. The rhythm can be off, which then makes your shots off, and your defense is just a little off which means Chandler has to do more in the middle (foul trouble?), etc. I just think this is a big giant thing to try right now and would have rather seen it in stages, just think that way would have been more productive.
This whole debate about whether or not STAT should start puzzles me...You guys think Melo isn't playing 40 mins a night in the playoffs??..Where will STAT be in those 40 mins??..
Exactly; the real issue is making sure that Tyson, Melo, and Amare are not all on the floor at the same time. Melo gets 40 mpg fine. Amare gets 17 as backup C (with Melo as PF) and 8 as backup PF (with Melo resting).
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:earthmansurfer wrote:nixluva wrote:I think despite the loss, that the team ran thru the sets pretty well with the starting lineup. They just didn't hit shots, but they were open. The real issue is defensive chemistry, which is a big deal. STAT was slow on D and overall isn't that good anyway, but he had stepped up his effort in games just before he went down with the back injury. Hopefully he can get back to that.
I've hurt my back before (quite recently actually) and can say with football (on offense) I can mostly do what I want to do, as I step where and when I want. But on Defense. THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Someone puts a move on you and you can pinch that nerve trying to adjust when just out of position. When you have a recovering back you sort of sense that can be the case. So, I don't think Stat is capable of playing defense as well as before (which isn't much). He did have some blocks, but those small, sharp and quick movements are probably going to be cut back on, just on instinct alone.
I do hope we find a way as we have talent. I just think bringing Stat off the bench and then overlaying his minutes with Melo is a lot less shocking and then the adjustment goes both ways. Throwing Stat into the starting lineup, the other starters, including Melo, are now trying to fit him in. This is all good, but not when you have 4 games, now 3, to figure it out.
And we can see chemistry can be affected in many ways. The rhythm can be off, which then makes your shots off, and your defense is just a little off which means Chandler has to do more in the middle (foul trouble?), etc. I just think this is a big giant thing to try right now and would have rather seen it in stages, just think that way would have been more productive.
This whole debate about whether or not STAT should start puzzles me...You guys think Melo isn't playing 40 mins a night in the playoffs??..Where will STAT be in those 40 mins??..
Exactly; the real issue is making sure that Tyson, Melo, and Amare are not all on the floor at the same time. Melo gets 40 mpg fine. Amare gets 17 as backup C (with Melo as PF) and 8 as backup PF (with Melo resting).
If you listen to Woody all he talks about is defense and rebounding...Amare will be starting at PF especially if they play Chicago who are a very good rebounding team
On top of all that..The intensity of playoff basketball is off the charts...U can't count on guys like Fields, TD, and their ilk...Melo and Chandler will show up...Maybe JR...We are going to need Amare big time if we have a shot at winning...I'm not counting on Shump(rook),Fields or Novak...I hope they are resting BD for the playoffs...
Melo 40+ mins, Chandler 35+, Amare 30+( I pray his back holds up),JR 35+ and who knows after that....
