Bonn1997 wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:These web based erections that some of you form over the lousy Nuggets is disgusting.They're going to lose in 5 games if they don't get swept.
Then next year, they'll grab a 6-8 seed again and exit from the 1st round again.
Please stop.
Isn’t that exactly what the Knicks have done the last two years (including this one) first round and exit?
Don't you remember? They have a lower ceiling than we do! We may get swept every year in the playoffs but at least it's easier to construct fictional scenarios in which a Melo-led team becomes a title contender than a Nugget team becomes one! 
How do you even take sides in fiction vs. fiction? Neither Denver nor NY is getting past OKC/Spurs or Heat/Bulks as constructed.
loweyecue wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:These web based erections that some of you form over the lousy Nuggets is disgusting.They're going to lose in 5 games if they don't get swept.
Then next year, they'll grab a 6-8 seed again and exit from the 1st round again.
Please stop.
Isn’t that exactly what the Knicks have done the last two years (including this one) first round and exit?
Don't you remember? They have a lower ceiling than we do! We may get swept every year in the playoffs but at least it's easier to construct fictional scenarios in which a Melo-led team becomes a title contender than a Nugget team becomes one!
How do you even take sides in fiction vs. fiction? Neither Denver nor NY is getting past OKC/Spurs or Heat/Bulks as constructed.
The problem is that fictional scenarios are used to justify the decision-making "rebuilding" course the team has taken.
I don't think he's a superstar player like LeBron, Wade, Kobe or Durant but of course people will not agree. He hasn't proven jack in the playoffs so until he does his label as a scorer who brings nothing else to the table will stick with him. He needs to change his own image by changing his game and stepping it up a notch in the playoffs. What he did last night was not efficient and his playmaking abilities are awful compared to his counterparts.
What has he done to make his teammates better like LeBron does, like Wade does, like everyone else who is called a superstar does? What has he won in his career? Forget 42 points. I'll take 25 points and 8 assists with 10 rebounds. I'll take an all-around game and getting out of the first round more than once in 8 years. That's what I'll take. I'm sick of individual statistics. We need this guy - if he's our guy going forward - to rise up and get on the level of those dudes or we'll have no chance. And to do that he'll have to play smarter. LeBron played with nobodies in Cleveland and went to the Finals.
Sorry, the guy has the ball in his hands 90% of the time. He SHOULD be creating for others no matter what position he plays. The offense goes THROUGH him. He's not just there. If he can't create for his teammates then we need another great player who can and just have Carmelo as the primary scorer and nothing else. It's obvious this current role he is in wont win much. Giving him the ball and asking him to outscore people without creating for anyone isn't a legitimate game plan.
Carmelo has a talented team. It's not all on him but the moment we made that huge trade and made him the focal point then he has to take some criticism. End of story. He hasn't done anything here where criticizing him is insane. He's not Patrick Ewing. Hell, he's not even Tyson Chandler. He'll have to earn the right to get on that level. He hasn't yet.
That doesn't mean it's his fault we're losing. It's the entire team's fault, top to bottom.
JamesKPolk wrote:I don't think he's a superstar player like LeBron, Wade, Kobe or Durant but of course people will not agree. He hasn't proven jack in the playoffs so until he does his label as a scorer who brings nothing else to the table will stick with him. He needs to change his own image by changing his game and stepping it up a notch in the playoffs. What he did last night was not efficient and his playmaking abilities are awful compared to his counterparts.What has he done to make his teammates better like LeBron does, like Wade does, like everyone else who is called a superstar does? What has he won in his career? Forget 42 points. I'll take 25 points and 8 assists with 10 rebounds. I'll take an all-around game and getting out of the first round more than once in 8 years. That's what I'll take. I'm sick of individual statistics. We need this guy - if he's our guy going forward - to rise up and get on the level of those dudes or we'll have no chance. And to do that he'll have to play smarter. LeBron played with nobodies in Cleveland and went to the Finals.
Sorry, the guy has the ball in his hands 90% of the time. He SHOULD be creating for others no matter what position he plays. The offense goes THROUGH him. He's not just there. If he can't create for his teammates then we need another great player who can and just have Carmelo as the primary scorer and nothing else. It's obvious this current role he is in wont win much. Giving him the ball and asking him to outscore people without creating for anyone isn't a legitimate game plan.
Carmelo has a talented team. It's not all on him but the moment we made that huge trade and made him the focal point then he has to take some criticism. End of story. He hasn't done anything here where criticizing him is insane. He's not Patrick Ewing. Hell, he's not even Tyson Chandler. He'll have to earn the right to get on that level. He hasn't yet.
That doesn't mean it's his fault we're losing. It's the entire team's fault, top to bottom.
Good post. I still like him and would do the trade again. But he's come up small again in the playoffs. His game 2 against Boston last year was maybe his finest moment as a Knick, but we still lost so I don't want to hear that.
The frustrating thing is that for all of April he played at an MVP level at a critical time for us. He CAN be the superstar we traded for. It's a tough spot right now for him and us to be playing the Heat, having him matched with LeBron and no one else being able to step up against a great Defense. But thats why we got him. We haven't adjusted to the intensity of the playoffs. And part of that is on Melo. As the leaders he and Tyson have to demand it.
My brain tells me it's over this year and I sure my brain is right. But I still want to believe we can get a win or 2 with Tyson healthy and Melo being able to operate a little better without STAT. We just need to show some heart. And Melo has to step the eff up and play harder and smarter than ever for the rest of this playoffs.
What is your definition of coming up small? Losing to the Celts last year while playing virtually with a D league team is coming up small? Losing the first two games on the road to possibly the team that is going to win it all is coming up small? Are you talking numbers? Yes, he sucked in game 1. He and the coaching staff made an adjustment an he played better. Now, similar to last year, the Knicks are going into game 3 without Stat and without our starting pg. If the Knicks get swept, will that mean Melo came up short despite the injuries? If the Knicks would have just tanked against the Hawks and Bobcats and fell to the 8th seed to play the Roseless Bulls, would you say Melo finally came up big by beating Chicago?
Coming up small = being Tracy McGrady for all but one year of his career. This first round elimination will be his 8th in 9 seasons.
Say all you want about those Nuggets teams but there is no way they were first round exits every year.
JamesKPolk wrote:Coming up small = being Tracy McGrady for all but one year of his career. This first round elimination will be his 8th in 9 seasons.Say all you want about those Nuggets teams but there is no way they were first round exits every year.
Are you saying that with looking at their (denvers) schedule and when/if the were favorite or underdogs or are you just making a declaration?
And, do your research ... They went to the Western Conference Finals his last year and he was great! But never mind that.
I'm saying that by looking at their roster.
JamesKPolk wrote:I don't think he's a superstar player like LeBron, Wade, Kobe or Durant but of course people will not agree. He hasn't proven jack in the playoffs so until he does his label as a scorer who brings nothing else to the table will stick with him. He needs to change his own image by changing his game and stepping it up a notch in the playoffs. What he did last night was not efficient and his playmaking abilities are awful compared to his counterparts.What has he done to make his teammates better like LeBron does, like Wade does, like everyone else who is called a superstar does? What has he won in his career? Forget 42 points. I'll take 25 points and 8 assists with 10 rebounds. I'll take an all-around game and getting out of the first round more than once in 8 years. That's what I'll take. I'm sick of individual statistics. We need this guy - if he's our guy going forward - to rise up and get on the level of those dudes or we'll have no chance. And to do that he'll have to play smarter. LeBron played with nobodies in Cleveland and went to the Finals.
Sorry, the guy has the ball in his hands 90% of the time. He SHOULD be creating for others no matter what position he plays. The offense goes THROUGH him. He's not just there. If he can't create for his teammates then we need another great player who can and just have Carmelo as the primary scorer and nothing else. It's obvious this current role he is in wont win much. Giving him the ball and asking him to outscore people without creating for anyone isn't a legitimate game plan.
Carmelo has a talented team. It's not all on him but the moment we made that huge trade and made him the focal point then he has to take some criticism. End of story. He hasn't done anything here where criticizing him is insane. He's not Patrick Ewing. Hell, he's not even Tyson Chandler. He'll have to earn the right to get on that level. He hasn't yet.
That doesn't mean it's his fault we're losing. It's the entire team's fault, top to bottom.
Labron has been in the playoffs all but one year of his NBA career, each time failing miserable when it was time for him to take over.
You can compare Melo and labron as equals, just because bron took his band of miss fits to the finals and got swept, doesnt make him the better player..I'll give labron the edge defensively, but then you give melo the edge offensively.
They have all of there guys healthy and I still think we could beat them if we play smarter defensively, and rebound the ball and play with some poise.
I'm not the biggest Melo fan but dude has shown he can be a complete player this season. Moving him doesn't really make sense unless it's to try to salvage Amare's career.
JamesKPolk wrote:I'm saying that by looking at their roster.
Did yu bother to look at the opposition? Did you notice that they were the underdogs in most of those playoffs series and did not have homecourt advantage?
That's the point...his teams were better than underdog status and yet still wound up where we were - a lower seed who doesn't deserve such a low seed facing a higher seed.
And even with all of that 'underdog' status (there were years his teams had better records than the teams they were facing but lower seeds because of divisional standings) none of those teams besides the one in 2010 went to 6 games in a series. they went to the WCF in 2009. We are talking about 6 of 8 times being eliminated in 5 games, including a sweep when they had 50 wins and faced the Lakers.
Just stating facts. You can take it any way you like.
Uptown wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:I'm saying that by looking at their roster.
Did yu bother to look at the opposition? Did you notice that they were the underdogs in most of those playoffs series and did not have homecourt advantage?
I'm curious..How can you have a talented team and be underdogs..So is that like saying where being out coached..Or we have talented dumb players..
I would like to see the the GM that would trade Amare for the likes of Haslem, pittman and eddy curry..And i doubt anyone on this board would approve a Bosh for amare..
I almost 1000 pct sure that if labron was on the knicks instead of melo, Amare would have been an all star this season
JamesKPolk wrote:That's the point...his teams were better than underdog status and yet still wound up where we were - a lower seed who doesn't deserve such a low seed facing a higher seed.And even with all of that 'underdog' status (there were years his teams had better records than the teams they were facing but lower seeds because of divisional standings) none of those teams besides the one in 2010 went to 6 games in a series. they went to the WCF in 2009. We are talking about 6 of 8 times being eliminated in 5 games, including a sweep when they had 50 wins and faced the Lakers.
Just stating facts. You can take it any way you like.
This years teams are a bunch of pricks too since they are THE LOWER SEED and once again playing the Lakers in LA and will be out in the first round!
Thats with all those "PIECES" that we stupidly gave them.
This is the Lakers who are not as good as they were when they were beating the crappy 50 win Denver every year.
You wanted Denver to be a higher seed than LA and SA those years?
I want a Bentley!
I am sorry who did Bryant, Chris Paul, Wade, and etc make better? Kobe didn't make Smush Parker better. Wade looked Terrible after shaq. Chris Paul what has he done and or even Durant. Players look better when there are better players around them. Yes, Melo needs to get better but lets get real here. Look at Deron Williams people thought he was all world in Utah now he is a me first guy with a bad attitude. Why isn't the "best Pg" making his team better?
Bottom line is when you play with flawed teams you will always look flawed as a star.
yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry who did Bryant, Chris Paul, Wade, and etc make better? Kobe didn't make Smush Parker better. Wade looked Terrible after shaq. Chris Paul what has he done and or even Durant. Players look better when there are better players around them. Yes, Melo needs to get better but lets get real here. Look at Deron Williams people thought he was all world in Utah now he is a me first guy with a bad attitude. Why isn't the "best Pg" making his team better?Bottom line is when you play with flawed teams you will always look flawed as a star.
+1000000000000000000000000
Stick IT!!
You can't make another player better, you can only inspire them to play better. This notion that Bryant(or a star player) can go and say "Hey Smush, you will be a great player." and then Smush comes out on the court and have a career night is ridiculous.
Vmart wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry who did Bryant, Chris Paul, Wade, and etc make better? Kobe didn't make Smush Parker better. Wade looked Terrible after shaq. Chris Paul what has he done and or even Durant. Players look better when there are better players around them. Yes, Melo needs to get better but lets get real here. Look at Deron Williams people thought he was all world in Utah now he is a me first guy with a bad attitude. Why isn't the "best Pg" making his team better?Bottom line is when you play with flawed teams you will always look flawed as a star.
+1
bingo.
can't believe this is being pinned on melo. if only melo didn't score 30ppg in april. if only melo didn't force shump to tear his ACL. if only didn't force amar'e to punch that glass.
SMFH
yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry who did Bryant, Chris Paul, Wade, and etc make better? Kobe didn't make Smush Parker better. Wade looked Terrible after shaq. Chris Paul what has he done and or even Durant. Players look better when there are better players around them. Yes, Melo needs to get better but lets get real here. Look at Deron Williams people thought he was all world in Utah now he is a me first guy with a bad attitude. Why isn't the "best Pg" making his team better?Bottom line is when you play with flawed teams you will always look flawed as a star.
Huh?
Our supporting cast is not Nets garbage, Hornets garbage, Smush Parker or anyone you mentioned. Why are you comparing those dire situations to ours? Ours is not a dire situation. It's not Carmelo Anthony and a bunch of Jerome James clones. This is a talented team with depth.
Nobody thinks Deron Williams is a me-first guy with a bad attitude so I have no idea what you're saying. It's a fact that everyone knows that team flat out sucks. That is in no way comparable to us.
Also, what does anything you said have to do with the teams Carmelo has played both here and in Denver? Carmelo has always played with better players than Smush Parker or Johan Petro. Much, much better players. Always.
You can get all the +1's in the world but our post doesn't relate to the facts at hand.
