Knicks · Needs for next season (page 1)
This is my humble opinion.
Im going to assume a strategic breakup of the starting line up that will place Amare as a 28 minute 6th man 4/5--very similar to what the Spurs did with Manu Ginobli(albeit different position) this year that worked well. Amare should not play more minutes than Tim Duncan because of his injury history. The Spurs used an 11-12 man rotation limiting their star players minutes--moving Ginobli to the 6th man position using a few strategic nights off for their big three-and this is the model we should use because of the Spurs great success with it and thats how we can become a championship caliber team. We can let Amare play back up 4-5 and he should dominate in that position. Too many times I noticed when Amare went out so did Carmelo--unless FT they should NEVER be on the bench at the same time. This also gives Carmelo the nice 4 man mismatch and --NOT to be under rated more space for Chandler to increase offensive output.
That would leave me with
C-Chandler
F-Carmelo
F-
G-
G-Lin
I would put Shumpert in there but with his injury--Im going to slot him 7 in what I would like to see a 10 man rotation
6 Amare
7 Shumpert
8
9 Fields
10 Jordan or Jorts
11 Douglas
I removed Fields from the starting unit because of his regression with his jumper and until proven Im leaving T Douglas as player 11 with the possibility of moving back to a combo guard who can score from the outside play good D and score on the break. This should however become one of the NBA strongest 2n unit's which IMHO is the new model for success.
That leaves us with voids at starting SF SG and position 8. I do not want JR back--he is erratic and inconsistent. If he did come back--Id move him into slot 8. So our big deal is finding two starters--dont have to be stars--look at the spurs--they start Danny Green and K Leonard who make about 2mm $ between the both of them. In fact Danny Green would be a very nice fit here at SG and he's an unrestricted fA like Novak --bt thats what we need from Knicks management this summer---find us a K Leonard and Danny Green--guys who are efficient play team ball defend rebound and fit. JR Smith is not a good fit.
C-Chandler
F-Carmelo
F-
G-
G-Lin6 Amare
7 Shumpert
8
9 Fields
10 Jordan or Jorts
11 Douglas
That has championship contender written all over it!
The lineup will be: Chandler, STAT, Melo, Shump, Lin
6. ??
7. ??
8. Fields
9. Harrelson
10. ??
11. Douglas
Who should fill the 6, 7? If I was looking for FA's:
1. Jason Kidd or Andre Miller
2. Kenyon Martin
3. JJ Hickson
4. Danny Green (I said this weeks ago - he's a perfect 6th man for us)
5. RYAN HOLLINS <--- get him Grunwald!
If we were to get 2 of these guys, or even these types of players, we would be good. Fill in 10 with a good second rounder. And hey, I like Fields. I do. Him and Lin work well together. But if he decides to move on because we don't offer him enough, that's just fine. Bring in a second rounder with some gifts. Youth is the way after next year.
C- Chandler, with one low post move
F- Amare, with new goggles and better court vision, 5 assists a night homey!
F- Carmelo, with better cardio and a stronger base, hit the open man
G- Summer League discovery
G- Lin, with 5 pounds of flexible muscle, not the Hulk muscle that slowed Amar'e down
G Fields, as sixth man
G Shumpert, by March... with a better jumper
G 6'5 International man of mystery/ diamond in the rough with ball handling skills
F 6'10+ Second round draft selection or a free agent, I don't care which one
F 6'10 Steve Novak, because you can never have too many guys who can flat out shoot it
11 Josh Harrellson, pine brother extraordinaire without the three point shot in his arsenal... just stay in the paint and rumble young man
12 another center
Belinelli, Meeks, Lee, Rush, etc. All young guys who can shoot the basketball and start at SG. Has to be a way to get one of them.
Spurs Core and putting pieces in place to fuel it has been a stroke of genious for Pop.
We need to identify our core, galvanize and then we know what it needs to succeed.
I think Briggs is correct for the most part but can't imagine any scenario where Amare is not part of that core.
If the assumption is to field a championship team then its a great idea. I don't think the team is ready to assign Amare to that role nor would he accept it. Perhaps if the team evolves and that role is one he can thrive on and its clear that is what takes us to the next level.
We don't have the coach with the juice card to pull that off nor a core that is effective.
Next season? Maybe after.
Pop is strong jedi master at this stage and his will is strong. Im not sure Woodson can command that kind of presence.
MDA could not get is players into a core unit.
Phil Jax is that kind of presence. Question is do we have the men to fall into line with a Jedi Master or does the shine of being a star too alluring for some?
Good thread.
Nalod wrote:
Spurs Core and putting pieces in place to fuel it has been a stroke of genious for Pop.We need to identify our core, galvanize and then we know what it needs to succeed.
I think Briggs is correct for the most part but can't imagine any scenario where Amare is not part of that core.
If the assumption is to field a championship team then its a great idea. I don't think the team is ready to assign Amare to that role nor would he accept it. Perhaps if the team evolves and that role is one he can thrive on and its clear that is what takes us to the next level.
We don't have the coach with the juice card to pull that off nor a core that is effective.
Next season? Maybe after.
Pop is strong jedi master at this stage and his will is strong. Im not sure Woodson can command that kind of presence.
MDA could not get is players into a core unit.
Phil Jax is that kind of presence. Question is do we have the men to fall into line with a Jedi Master or does the shine of being a star too alluring for some?
Good thread.
Core for at least the next 2 season is Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin, and Chandler. That is fine. We can win with this core. It all depends on how the other pieces fit. We need every other player in the rotation to be able to shoot and/or defend and rebound at a high level. Shumpert, Harrellson, Novak, and Jeffries all fit that mold. We need to identify another SG, backup PG, and backup bigman. I think those 3 pieces can get us pretty close as currently constructed.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:
Spurs Core and putting pieces in place to fuel it has been a stroke of genious for Pop.We need to identify our core, galvanize and then we know what it needs to succeed.
I think Briggs is correct for the most part but can't imagine any scenario where Amare is not part of that core.
If the assumption is to field a championship team then its a great idea. I don't think the team is ready to assign Amare to that role nor would he accept it. Perhaps if the team evolves and that role is one he can thrive on and its clear that is what takes us to the next level.
We don't have the coach with the juice card to pull that off nor a core that is effective.
Next season? Maybe after.
Pop is strong jedi master at this stage and his will is strong. Im not sure Woodson can command that kind of presence.
MDA could not get is players into a core unit.
Phil Jax is that kind of presence. Question is do we have the men to fall into line with a Jedi Master or does the shine of being a star too alluring for some?
Good thread.
Core for at least the next 2 season is Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin, and Chandler. That is fine. We can win with this core. It all depends on how the other pieces fit. We need every other player in the rotation to be able to shoot and/or defend and rebound at a high level. Shumpert, Harrellson, Novak, and Jeffries all fit that mold. We need to identify another SG, backup PG, and backup bigman. I think those 3 pieces can get us pretty close as currently constructed.
I'm all for Amare as a core 28 minute a night 6th man player. What it does is provides Chandler and Carmelo more space to start the game(and lets face it Amare and Carmelo sck at passing or atleast don't like to do it) and then allows Amare to be a main guy against 2nd stringers for the last 3 min of period and first 3 of period 2 etc..
I'm NOT in agreement with playing them all together---NOT going to work. Play together some of the time--yes. Starting and playing together most of game--no. And we dont need Melo at 40 minutes either. We need Melo at 36/ 37 Chandler and Amare at 28/30. ALL of these guys have shown to be injury prone.
Knixkik wrote:Our major need is a shooting guard who can shoot, as well as defend reasonable well.Belinelli, Meeks, Lee, Rush, etc. All young guys who can shoot the basketball and start at SG. Has to be a way to get one of them.
I thought they should of went after Morrow when he was a FA
How do you feel about Amare for Joe Johnson?
I think we have seen enough games to realize that Amare, Melo, and Tyson Chandler do not work well together.
You clearly see this too, that is the reason why you are removing him in the starting lineup and lowering his minutes.
I just cannot justify paying a max player, without the ability to acquire much talent with all the holes we have here.
Joe Johnson would at the very least, be able to play the Point G/F role, that we desperately need, hit wide open shots, and was once a good/decent defender.
K Leanard is very impressive, he has the physical tools to be a top NBA lockdown defender.
It's very fortunate he gets to develop with Poppavich and the Spurs organization.
The Spurs/Poppavich, have taken the time and effort, to develop many of these young players, rookies, and once D League players.
By sitting out Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker much of these past 2years, he developed the confidence and skills, with many of their players on their roster.
They are by far, the deepest team in the league, that plays TEAM BASKETBALL.
Leanard is very versatile, with great length, good athleticism, developed a 3 point shot, and has great energy.
He is very humble, a "team" player, works very hard, very coachable, and doesn't have the "i am an all star" mentality.
Defense is key, with a player like him added to TC, and Iman, it would greatly multiply our defense.
Unfortunately, there aren't many players with his type of mentality to go with his skills.
I see him being a big part of their future, defender players like Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Kobe, Lebron, and Wade possible.
Unfortunately, OKC, has 2 players in Harden and Westbrook that are elite and have no holes in their games.
It is going to be very tough to find a player to play his role with that much skill physically and the versatility of a F/G.
He is a better version of steroids x 3, Wilson Chandler, Ariza, and Battier.
I would love Danny Green, we can see why Novak was cut from that team, as their current players can all shoot, play good defense, and have another skill at least.
With that said, I am not sure SA would let Green go, he is their best 3% shooter, and has good size/ PG/F ability.
We need the MLE type $ to acquire some players like these to establish an identidy and develop good chemistry.
With UFA, Duncan, Green, Gary Neal, and a few others. RFA Dejuan Blaire, I see them keeping majority of them, they have a nice balance of veterans and young players.
With this CBA, it is hard to assemble a deep roster, given our situation with 2 max players already.
We simply cannot over pay for talent and we have done that with 2 players that are not that great and not even average defenders.
Needing to find the multiple good contracts in the range of 2-3m, while paying about 12m per "star", is the format to go.
We don't haven have this luxury to find these type of players we desperatly need...
RonRon wrote:Briggs, great post...
How do you feel about Amare for Joe Johnson?
I think we have seen enough games to realize that Amare, Melo, and Tyson Chandler do not work well together.
You clearly see this too, that is the reason why you are removing him in the starting lineup and lowering his minutes.
I just cannot justify paying a max player, without the ability to acquire much talent with all the holes we have here.
Joe Johnson would at the very least, be able to play the Point G/F role, that we desperately need, hit wide open shots, and was once a good/decent defender.K Leanard is very impressive, he has the physical tools to be a top NBA lockdown defender.
It's very fortunate he gets to develop with Poppavich and the Spurs organization.
The Spurs/Poppavich, have taken the time and effort, to develop many of these young players, rookies, and once D League players.
By sitting out Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker much of these past 2years, he developed the confidence and skills, with many of their players on their roster.
They are by far, the deepest team in the league, that plays TEAM BASKETBALL.Leanard is very versatile, with great length, good athleticism, developed a 3 point shot, and has great energy.
He is very humble, a "team" player, works very hard, very coachable, and doesn't have the "i am an all star" mentality.
Defense is key, with a player like him added to TC, and Iman, it would greatly multiply our defense.
Unfortunately, there aren't many players with his type of mentality to go with his skills.
I see him being a big part of their future, defender players like Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Kobe, Lebron, and Wade possible.
Unfortunately, OKC, has 2 players in Harden and Westbrook that are elite and have no holes in their games.
It is going to be very tough to find a player to play his role with that much skill physically and the versatility of a F/G.
He is a better version of steroids x 3, Wilson Chandler, Ariza, and Battier.I would love Danny Green, we can see why Novak was cut from that team, as their current players can all shoot, play good defense, and have another skill at least.
With that said, I am not sure SA would let Green go, he is their best 3% shooter, and has good size/ PG/F ability.
We need the MLE type $ to acquire some players like these to establish an identidy and develop good chemistry.
With UFA, Duncan, Green, Gary Neal, and a few others. RFA Dejuan Blaire, I see them keeping majority of them, they have a nice balance of veterans and young players.With this CBA, it is hard to assemble a deep roster, given our situation with 2 max players already.
We simply cannot over pay for talent and we have done that with 2 players that are not that great and not even average defenders.
Needing to find the multiple good contracts in the range of 2-3m, while paying about 12m per "star", is the format to go.
We don't haven have this luxury to find these type of players we desperatly need...
The Spurs are the best run organization bar none for the last 20 years. In fact Id like to see another team in any sport with a better 20 year winning record. And they have done it in a small market. It's smart to watch and emulate the Spurs. I think that is what we are finally seeing with the Rangers with Sather--he built a great team in Edmonton was given the time with the Rangers and did it his way--and now the Rangers will be on cruise control for a few Stanley Cups over the next decade. I think the new winning model in the NBA is having a DEEP quality roster where players can play less minutes teams can sustain injury problems and sustain level of play from unit to unit.
Jmpasq wrote:Knixkik wrote:Our major need is a shooting guard who can shoot, as well as defend reasonable well.Belinelli, Meeks, Lee, Rush, etc. All young guys who can shoot the basketball and start at SG. Has to be a way to get one of them.
I thought they should of went after Morrow when he was a FA
I like him too. Luckily he's a FA again next summer.
BRIGGS wrote:RonRon wrote:Briggs, great post...
How do you feel about Amare for Joe Johnson?
I think we have seen enough games to realize that Amare, Melo, and Tyson Chandler do not work well together.
You clearly see this too, that is the reason why you are removing him in the starting lineup and lowering his minutes.
I just cannot justify paying a max player, without the ability to acquire much talent with all the holes we have here.
Joe Johnson would at the very least, be able to play the Point G/F role, that we desperately need, hit wide open shots, and was once a good/decent defender.K Leanard is very impressive, he has the physical tools to be a top NBA lockdown defender.
It's very fortunate he gets to develop with Poppavich and the Spurs organization.
The Spurs/Poppavich, have taken the time and effort, to develop many of these young players, rookies, and once D League players.
By sitting out Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker much of these past 2years, he developed the confidence and skills, with many of their players on their roster.
They are by far, the deepest team in the league, that plays TEAM BASKETBALL.Leanard is very versatile, with great length, good athleticism, developed a 3 point shot, and has great energy.
He is very humble, a "team" player, works very hard, very coachable, and doesn't have the "i am an all star" mentality.
Defense is key, with a player like him added to TC, and Iman, it would greatly multiply our defense.
Unfortunately, there aren't many players with his type of mentality to go with his skills.
I see him being a big part of their future, defender players like Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Kobe, Lebron, and Wade possible.
Unfortunately, OKC, has 2 players in Harden and Westbrook that are elite and have no holes in their games.
It is going to be very tough to find a player to play his role with that much skill physically and the versatility of a F/G.
He is a better version of steroids x 3, Wilson Chandler, Ariza, and Battier.I would love Danny Green, we can see why Novak was cut from that team, as their current players can all shoot, play good defense, and have another skill at least.
With that said, I am not sure SA would let Green go, he is their best 3% shooter, and has good size/ PG/F ability.
We need the MLE type $ to acquire some players like these to establish an identidy and develop good chemistry.
With UFA, Duncan, Green, Gary Neal, and a few others. RFA Dejuan Blaire, I see them keeping majority of them, they have a nice balance of veterans and young players.With this CBA, it is hard to assemble a deep roster, given our situation with 2 max players already.
We simply cannot over pay for talent and we have done that with 2 players that are not that great and not even average defenders.
Needing to find the multiple good contracts in the range of 2-3m, while paying about 12m per "star", is the format to go.
We don't haven have this luxury to find these type of players we desperatly need...
The Spurs are the best run organization bar none for the last 20 years. In fact Id like to see another team in any sport with a better 20 year winning record. And they have done it in a small market. It's smart to watch and emulate the Spurs. I think that is what we are finally seeing with the Rangers with Sather--he built a great team in Edmonton was given the time with the Rangers and did it his way--and now the Rangers will be on cruise control for a few Stanley Cups over the next decade. I think the new winning model in the NBA is having a DEEP quality roster where players can play less minutes teams can sustain injury problems and sustain level of play from unit to unit.
Agree on the spurs. Other than Duncan they have been able to cultivate good talent a number of ways. Incubate draft picks overseas is how Manu came to them.
Duncan was a gift from god but they made it work for a very long time.
They also kept him from leaving.
They are the polar opposite of what we do. They exibit patience.
Other than win they have little star power.
In NY its seems you have to have that.
I'll stop there. everyone knows what comes next.
Nalod wrote:BRIGGS wrote:RonRon wrote:Briggs, great post...
How do you feel about Amare for Joe Johnson?
I think we have seen enough games to realize that Amare, Melo, and Tyson Chandler do not work well together.
You clearly see this too, that is the reason why you are removing him in the starting lineup and lowering his minutes.
I just cannot justify paying a max player, without the ability to acquire much talent with all the holes we have here.
Joe Johnson would at the very least, be able to play the Point G/F role, that we desperately need, hit wide open shots, and was once a good/decent defender.K Leanard is very impressive, he has the physical tools to be a top NBA lockdown defender.
It's very fortunate he gets to develop with Poppavich and the Spurs organization.
The Spurs/Poppavich, have taken the time and effort, to develop many of these young players, rookies, and once D League players.
By sitting out Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker much of these past 2years, he developed the confidence and skills, with many of their players on their roster.
They are by far, the deepest team in the league, that plays TEAM BASKETBALL.Leanard is very versatile, with great length, good athleticism, developed a 3 point shot, and has great energy.
He is very humble, a "team" player, works very hard, very coachable, and doesn't have the "i am an all star" mentality.
Defense is key, with a player like him added to TC, and Iman, it would greatly multiply our defense.
Unfortunately, there aren't many players with his type of mentality to go with his skills.
I see him being a big part of their future, defender players like Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Kobe, Lebron, and Wade possible.
Unfortunately, OKC, has 2 players in Harden and Westbrook that are elite and have no holes in their games.
It is going to be very tough to find a player to play his role with that much skill physically and the versatility of a F/G.
He is a better version of steroids x 3, Wilson Chandler, Ariza, and Battier.I would love Danny Green, we can see why Novak was cut from that team, as their current players can all shoot, play good defense, and have another skill at least.
With that said, I am not sure SA would let Green go, he is their best 3% shooter, and has good size/ PG/F ability.
We need the MLE type $ to acquire some players like these to establish an identidy and develop good chemistry.
With UFA, Duncan, Green, Gary Neal, and a few others. RFA Dejuan Blaire, I see them keeping majority of them, they have a nice balance of veterans and young players.With this CBA, it is hard to assemble a deep roster, given our situation with 2 max players already.
We simply cannot over pay for talent and we have done that with 2 players that are not that great and not even average defenders.
Needing to find the multiple good contracts in the range of 2-3m, while paying about 12m per "star", is the format to go.
We don't haven have this luxury to find these type of players we desperatly need...
The Spurs are the best run organization bar none for the last 20 years. In fact Id like to see another team in any sport with a better 20 year winning record. And they have done it in a small market. It's smart to watch and emulate the Spurs. I think that is what we are finally seeing with the Rangers with Sather--he built a great team in Edmonton was given the time with the Rangers and did it his way--and now the Rangers will be on cruise control for a few Stanley Cups over the next decade. I think the new winning model in the NBA is having a DEEP quality roster where players can play less minutes teams can sustain injury problems and sustain level of play from unit to unit.Agree on the spurs. Other than Duncan they have been able to cultivate good talent a number of ways. Incubate draft picks overseas is how Manu came to them.
Duncan was a gift from god but they made it work for a very long time.
They also kept him from leaving.They are the polar opposite of what we do. They exibit patience.
Other than win they have little star power.
In NY its seems you have to have that.
I'll stop there. everyone knows what comes next.
Vmart wrote:Best run organization thanks to a strategic tank job.
sad but true. I was only 14 when that happened but remember it very well. The biggest tank job in sports history
gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:Best run organization thanks to a strategic tank job.sad but true. I was only 14 when that happened but remember it very well. The biggest tank job in sports history
Yes they did tank, but so what? they did the smart thing, while we we busy trying to get W's while we knew we couldn't get in the playoffs, never mind the chances of getting swept
with our roster even though we miraculously got in. Poppavich developed many players over the years, with recent success of
Danny Green
Gary Neil
George Hill
Tiago Splitter
DeJuan Blair
Kawhi Leonard
He takes every game, in which Duncan, Ginobili, and Tony Parker very seriously, and developed his players with confidence, team play, and improved their games in the pro level.
He takes the time and effort, to develop a role for each player, while developing and tweaking his philosophies over the years to his players strengths and to the NBA changes.
Understanding what it takes to develop players, in many little steps, with the patience, and having that respect from his players, making millions, is not a easy task in the league.
Finding roles for his players individually, roles as a team, the importance of the 2nd unit and 6th man candidates of many years *Ginobili*
Having his players understand these roles, improving on them, developing the chemistry, and instilling the philosophies of his system.
He helps his players grow and understand the game of basketball in a total different level than most coaches, mentally and physically.
Look at Novak, he was cut by the Spurs, and with good reason, they don't need him.
We love Novak because he doesn't take bad shots and hits many GOOD SHOTS, and moves the ball, the way our team should.
He is never trying to generate stats, he is trying to play the % and WIN.
He would never put up with Melo's s@#t, and put him in his place early.
Regardless if they tanked or not, they are still one of the best run organizations of all time, and very consistent.
Give credit to him, his staff, and the GM/President of operations, because they deserve it.
His players stay focused and don't let $ or highlights get in their way of playing TEAM basketball.
He went from being a TWIN TOWER defense, to adapting and learning off Dantoni's SSOL system, and while playing a different style of defense....
They have the best record this year, with Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker, sitting out to rest on many games.
It seems fashionable to bash Walsh and MDA but that's exactly what they were doing!!! Trying to build an actual team of players that produce. It's not easy because we didn't have a Duncan to center everything around but you could see that things always seemed to function well when we had lots of role players who fit in their spots. Even this year for a brief time you could see how the team functioned with players fitting into roles and a TEAM concept. If we could've maintained that approach after Melo came back it would've been great.
We have roster issues based on the style of play and fit. Our 2 best players haven't been able to really blend their games. As we all know both are scorers and finishers, but it's mind boggling that they haven't been used to play off of each other more! Tyson being a finisher only with no real offensive game of his own, makes it even tougher to blend them all together unless you have Melo and Tyson in PnR together. We have to center it around the PG, much like the Celtics do. I think it's the only way that this is gonna work. We have to re-sign Lin and find a VERY high quality PG to share the position. We should never again go into a season with only one really capable PG. You can see the frustration of STAT build, tho he never says anything, but I just know he smashed his hand because he doesn't see the ball anymore. That's why he wants Nash!!!
What I see as a HUGE factor is that we don't have a LEGIT 6th man that can come in and do work like Harden or Manu. There's no punch off the bench! I think Grunwald thought JR could be that guy, but he was kind of a mess.
Lin
Shump (Most Likely Landry will start the year)
Melo
STAT
Tyson
PG? (Would love Dragic, but that's not happening. John Lucas, Patty Mills, Jonny Flynn or Ishmael Smith might be good options)
SG? (Shanon Brown, DeShawn Stephenson, Marco Belinelli, Jodie Meeks... there are lot of decent options)
Fields (I believe he can get his shot back. People ignored the fact that he improved his handle and driving and he's a good passer.)
Jorts(I think he's got a chance to get in even better shape and continue to develop his offensive game.)
Jared (Solid D and you know he works great with Tyson)n
TD (who knows what we can expect from him. I can only hope he can get his game back, cuz we're stuck with him)