Knicks · We don't need cap space, flexibility, or a new core (page 1)

We can win a title without trading Stoudemire or Melo, and without big cap space, we just need to look at what the Spurs have done. I know it's easier said then done, but they are such a dominate team (as was Dallas last season) because they found bargain role players who mesh with their core guys. Duncan, Parker, and Manu have been together as a championship quality core for a long time, but i would say that you can no longer built around those guys like before. Our core is clearly more talented and has more upside, it is all about chemistry (starting with off season/training camp) and filling the roster with the right guys. Look at the role players on the Spurs roster, their specific roles, and their salary:

Blair (F/C banger, who is tough and solid on both ends) 0.9 mil
Bonner (stretch big forward) 3.3 mil
Diaw (do-it-all role player) under 0.5 mil
Green (versatile wing, knock-down spot up shooter) 0.9 mil
Leonard (combo forward, tough, good defender, can hit open 3s) 1.7 mil
Neal (steady PG, knock-down shooter) 0.7 mil
Splitter (good center, solid in all areas, good upside) 3.7 mil
Jackson (creative scorer, good energy) 9.2 mil expiring in a year

What a team full a cheap talent. You don't need cap space to find these players, You just need late first/second round picks, and a knack for finding untapped talent. All of these players have specific areas that make them contributers, and none of them will ever be stars. They can all shoot and/or defend and/or rebound at a high level.

Good news for us? We are already doing this. Grunfield seems to have a great knack for finding talent, adding Lin and Novak for minimum deals. We just need to do more of it, starting with this offseason. We need to use our second round pick effectively, maybe trade for another one, and take advantage of free agency. We need to find that Blair, Green, and Neal-type, because they are out there. Look at the FA list for this summer, and see if some of those players can be identified. We can win a title with this team if we find the right players.

I would tend to agree!!! IF Grunwald can keep making good decisions and stay away from the Baron/Bibby pick ups, this team can be on top next year. Lin, Novak, Jorts & bringing back Jared for next to nothing are good moves. Also he has to hope that picking up the option on TD doesn't come back to bite him. TD must be rehabilitated.

The thing we're all waiting for is the Arbitrators ruling on the Bird Rights issue. If the Players win, that would be a HUGE boost to what Grunwald can do and i'd be a lot more confident in the teams success next year. I've been bummed out about how the season ended, but overall when you step back and really assess things, this team isn't that far off from success. Like you say, it's not about big splashy moves anymore. This is gonna be about smart small moves and signings. It's all up to Grunwald now.

well lets face it we have to win soon. amare and Tyson arent young anymore and they have injury problems. I feel if melo gets in better shape it will limit his injuries and make him more explosive. So i feel we have a good 3 year window but we have to tru and win now

The spurs have an amazing record of getting really good guys with late first and second round picks. The Knicks have done that recently but do not have many picks. Leonard was a higher pick but they stole Blair and I will never understand why he went from being a lottery type talent to a second round pick as a big. His career might be shorter but he has been a beast from day 1. Splitter was another good choice. Out of the rest of your list I am not sure who they drafted. However, as you said the Knicks can continue to be smart. Moz, Fields, Lin, Jorts, Novak, and Jeffries were great free agent signings or second round picks. Hopefully James turns into another great pick. It will be interesting to see if the Knicks buy another pick this draft in the first or second round. The Spurs model is definitely successful and would be a good one to imitate. Its too bad that the Knicks gave up so many picks to get to a place where they could get thier core.

I would say focus less on their players and more on their coach. Pop knows how to get the most out of all of those guys

We should offer Pop like his own island or something and get him here.

That cheap talent you speak of looks much better when they surround a core of Duncan (HOF), Parker (one of the elite pgs in the game, Manu and the best coach in the league. Remember, Diaw was fat, out of shape and was cut from the worse team in the league. Stephen Jackson was a malcontent-coach killer and was told to go home several times. Green was cut numerous times and run out of the league. Now, they are all playing starring roles on the best team in the league. Outside of assembling similar role players, who will play the Tim Duncan role for us?

Uptown wrote:That cheap talent you speak of looks much better when they surround a core of Duncan (HOF), Parker (one of the elite pgs in the game, Manu and the best coach in the league. Remember, Diaw was fat, out of shape and was cut from the worse team in the league. Stephen Jackson was a malcontent-coach killer and was told to go home several times. Green was cut numerous times and run out of the league. Now, they are all playing starring roles on the best team in the league. Outside of assembling similar role players, who will play the Tim Duncan role for us?

I was thinking a lot about what we really have so far and this much I know.

1. Melo is still a guy that you can rely on to score especially if you have other threats and teams can't focus everything on him. So with this team what seems to be missing are well rounded players who can score the ball too. They don't have to be great, but they should be solid role players. Those Spurs type role players would be perfect for this team. The Knicks finally improved defensively, so it's mostly about adding some more scoring now.

2. We don't have to worry about a Center anymore, tho if he can come back with a jump hook in the post that would be awesome and backup C still needs a little work.

3. I believe in Lin and again only backup PG is unsettled. If they could somehow upgrade that position it would do wonders for the entire team.

4. We need more depth at PF. I like STAT, but we don't know for sure if he can stay healthy. Finding a good PF behind him would be a very important find. Jorts could be that guy, but for right now it's still up in the air.

5. SG, SG, SG. I love Shump but he's got a tough road of recovery and who knows if he'll be able to improve his game when he'll be so busy just trying to get back on the floor. He was coming along nicely tho and I think he's a solid future SG. JR was just too inconsistent. I'd prefer someone less exciting but more dependable.

The real issue will be whether or not the players can win the Bird Rights for Lin and Novak. If that happens then this team will be in much better shape. I feel like they've got a good argument. Most were shocked that the rule on Bird Rights was changed.

We need to try and get Terrance Williams for the SG/SF position. Not a great shooter but does all the other things, has some point forward skills. His shooting may improve with more open looks. I think he is a better Fields but he is inexpensive enough to be able to keep Fields. I think we need to find a player at the two that can challenge the best wing players in the league so Melo can take a break like Lebron does. Another guy would be Pietrus but he has injury issues and is older. I think the best way to do things is pick up young talented players that been around the block in the offseason then work the waiver wire in the season to fill any cracks or to add icing. Try to focus on former top picks and put them in a role.

A PF option may be Kenyon Martin if he would play for the min. I would say goodbye to Jeffries if Martin would come to NY.

yellowboy90 wrote:We need to try and get Terrance Williams for the SG/SF position. Not a great shooter but does all the other things, has some point forward skills. His shooting may improve with more open looks. I think he is a better Fields but he is inexpensive enough to be able to keep Fields. I think we need to find a player at the two that can challenge the best wing players in the league so Melo can take a break like Lebron does. Another guy would be Pietrus but he has injury issues and is older. I think the best way to do things is pick up young talented players that been around the block in the offseason then work the waiver wire in the season to fill any cracks or to add icing. Try to focus on former top picks and put them in a role.

A PF option may be Kenyon Martin if he would play for the min. I would say goodbye to Jeffries if Martin would come to NY.

What does williams bring that shumpert doesnt? We need shooters.

yellowboy90 wrote:We need to try and get Terrance Williams for the SG/SF position. Not a great shooter but does all the other things, has some point forward skills. His shooting may improve with more open looks. I think he is a better Fields but he is inexpensive enough to be able to keep Fields. I think we need to find a player at the two that can challenge the best wing players in the league so Melo can take a break like Lebron does. Another guy would be Pietrus but he has injury issues and is older. I think the best way to do things is pick up young talented players that been around the block in the offseason then work the waiver wire in the season to fill any cracks or to add icing. Try to focus on former top picks and put them in a role.

A PF option may be Kenyon Martin if he would play for the min. I would say goodbye to Jeffries if Martin would come to NY.

Did Williams have a bit of a rebirth with the Rockets? He was a certified knucklehead lottery pick with tons of talent playing in the d-league not long ago. If he is worth it and isn't under contract I am sure Grunwald will take a look at him.

Knixkik wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:We need to try and get Terrance Williams for the SG/SF position. Not a great shooter but does all the other things, has some point forward skills. His shooting may improve with more open looks. I think he is a better Fields but he is inexpensive enough to be able to keep Fields. I think we need to find a player at the two that can challenge the best wing players in the league so Melo can take a break like Lebron does. Another guy would be Pietrus but he has injury issues and is older. I think the best way to do things is pick up young talented players that been around the block in the offseason then work the waiver wire in the season to fill any cracks or to add icing. Try to focus on former top picks and put them in a role.

A PF option may be Kenyon Martin if he would play for the min. I would say goodbye to Jeffries if Martin would come to NY.

What does williams bring that shumpert doesnt? We need shooters.

Health and more size. Shumpert is great against guards but he struggles against taller players. Its also nice to have similar talent coming in. He is really a place holder for Shump and a replacement for Fields. Kind of like Billy Walker with a high BBIQ.

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:We need to try and get Terrance Williams for the SG/SF position. Not a great shooter but does all the other things, has some point forward skills. His shooting may improve with more open looks. I think he is a better Fields but he is inexpensive enough to be able to keep Fields. I think we need to find a player at the two that can challenge the best wing players in the league so Melo can take a break like Lebron does. Another guy would be Pietrus but he has injury issues and is older. I think the best way to do things is pick up young talented players that been around the block in the offseason then work the waiver wire in the season to fill any cracks or to add icing. Try to focus on former top picks and put them in a role.

A PF option may be Kenyon Martin if he would play for the min. I would say goodbye to Jeffries if Martin would come to NY.

Did Williams have a bit of a rebirth with the Rockets? He was a certified knucklehead lottery pick with tons of talent playing in the d-league not long ago. If he is worth it and isn't under contract I am sure Grunwald will take a look at him.

He did pretty well in Sacramento. I think sometimes it is environment with young players and older players. Plus fitting a player in a role and not asking him to carry a team. You seen it with Williams last year, or Lin, Novak, Diaw with the spurs, Hickson and Portland, Green, and etc.

I think a nice little trend is having a defensive two that can knock down the open three enough to keep teams honest. Bring the shooters or scoring 2s off the bench.

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:We need to try and get Terrance Williams for the SG/SF position. Not a great shooter but does all the other things, has some point forward skills. His shooting may improve with more open looks. I think he is a better Fields but he is inexpensive enough to be able to keep Fields. I think we need to find a player at the two that can challenge the best wing players in the league so Melo can take a break like Lebron does. Another guy would be Pietrus but he has injury issues and is older. I think the best way to do things is pick up young talented players that been around the block in the offseason then work the waiver wire in the season to fill any cracks or to add icing. Try to focus on former top picks and put them in a role.

A PF option may be Kenyon Martin if he would play for the min. I would say goodbye to Jeffries if Martin would come to NY.

Did Williams have a bit of a rebirth with the Rockets? He was a certified knucklehead lottery pick with tons of talent playing in the d-league not long ago. If he is worth it and isn't under contract I am sure Grunwald will take a look at him.

He did pretty well in Sacramento. I think sometimes it is environment with young players and older players. Plus fitting a player in a role and not asking him to carry a team. You seen it with Williams last year, or Lin, Novak, Diaw with the spurs, Hickson and Portland, Green, and etc.

I think a nice little trend is having a defensive two that can knock down the open three enough to keep teams honest. Bring the shooters or scoring 2s off the bench.

I agree, we should a good look at Terrence Williams.
Martin, looks great in LA, he has a good shot now, and he still has the same explosiveness, athleticism, that he once had as a Net.

There are plenty of players that I think would fit and fill in for Stats, role.
That is why I do not want to go in to training camp, still trying to figure out if it can work or not.
I would look to move him, while deciding how to use our MLE and Bi Annual Exemptions.

For the MLE, we can look to use it on 1 player, or divide it up to add 2 quality role players.
So with the Bi Annual exemptions, we could look to acquire 3 players on to our roster.

In the end, we still will need to find quality veteran minimum players to fill out our roster spots and needs.

Gaines
Delonte West
Gary Neal
Kidd
Hinrich
Jordan Farmer
Patrick Mills
Hinrich

Danny Green
Terrence Williams
Ray Allen
Terry
Billups
Shannon Brown
Grant Hill
Willie Green

Odom
Boris Diaw
AK47
Gereld Green

Mahimi
Brandon Wright
JJ Hickson

Camby
Omar Osik
Greg Stimmmesa
Ryan Hollins
Hiddayi
Ivan Johnson

maybe picking the best 3 out of these guys, offering both our exemptions. And if possible, acquire the rest at the veterans minimum.

Veteran Min Shooters
Kapono
Redd
Anthony Parker

Full MLE

KG, old or not... just imagine Tyson Chandler, KG, and Iman, being the anchors of our defense, I think he is my #1 option. He is also consistent with his shot, something STAT was not
this year. And he is still a top defender, with good RB, and some shot blocking. He has some post up game, usually resulting to the fade away that cannot be guarded....
Forming our own twin towers, which both set great screens, plays top notch defense, everything will be mutliplied if together. Anything else he brings, which there are plenty, is just pure bonus. I think he can be the same player he is for another 2-3 years, perfect for our gap...

Ilyasova, a stretch 3/4 that has great length and put up many 20+ rebound nights this year, with some shot blocking and steals.

Dragic, nice size, so I can see Lin and Dragic being able to play together with some minutes

Ryan Anderson is a RFA, but can be a nice stretch 4/5 with rebounding that is at least better than Amare

Nalod wrote:We should offer Pop like his own island or something and get him here.

He would totally do it too. Too bad Belmont island is not for sale

I thought the next sentence was going to be "All we need is a miracle."

With our second round pick, we can definitely find a solid SG. We need to find that Danny Green, Jodie Meeks-type role player who can keep the defense honest. Look at prospects like Kevin Murphy and Orlando Johnson. Guys from smaller schools flying under the radar who can really shoot it. Could be instant contributors.

Bonn1997 wrote:I thought the next sentence was going to be "All we need is a miracle."

A miracle would be the NBA allowing for us to have Lins Bird rights.If we dont get those u can kiss any chance of winning down the drain

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I thought the next sentence was going to be "All we need is a miracle."

A miracle would be the NBA allowing for us to have Lins Bird rights.If we dont get those u can kiss any chance of winning down the drain

You are missing the point. Why are our chances down the drain? We just need to find more Lin's and Novak's in the second round of the draft, overseas, and on the FA list. Look above at the Spurs role players. None of them are big money, high profile players. This is how we have to operate and why we still have a great shot.

First and foremost we need guys to earn their paychecks. The reason you pay these stars 15+ mill is that they make up for the lack of depth by making the tougher plays look easy. Our guys don't show up every night or every WEEK! Getting the Lin's and Novak's is great but if your top players aren't at the top of their game we aren't going anywhere.

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I thought the next sentence was going to be "All we need is a miracle."

A miracle would be the NBA allowing for us to have Lins Bird rights.If we dont get those u can kiss any chance of winning down the drain

You are missing the point. Why are our chances down the drain? We just need to find more Lin's and Novak's in the second round of the draft, overseas, and on the FA list. Look above at the Spurs role players. None of them are big money, high profile players. This is how we have to operate and why we still have a great shot.

But Tim Duncan is a Hall of Fame 7 Footer and the stars, role players fit properly together. We have a great defensive 7 footer with no Offensive game. We have the softest Power Forward in the NBA, and a SF that needs the ball in his hand every possession or he cant function. We need a lot more then just more role players. We need Iman Shumpert to become an All Star and Lin to become Steve Nash. The Knicks arent a piece here or there away