Knicks · I think Felton is the better buy for the Knicks (page 2)

Knixkik wrote:We just need to focus on developing Lin and drafting a decent backup PG with our 2nd round pick. We can definitely find a player capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Jardine or Machado are both good possibilities.

I'd rather go with a Mike James type than go into the season relying on Jardine or Machado as backups. No offense to either one, but that is asking a lot from a rookie.

Knixkik wrote:We just need to focus on developing Lin and drafting a decent backup PG with our 2nd round pick. We can definitely find a player capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Jardine or Machado are both good possibilities.

I am so sick and tired of this organization and its fascination with "developing" players. We will never bring another chip here.

Lin is that player who is capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Let's find a damn noteworthy starting point guard, preferably one with years of playoff experience.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:someone called me crazy for saying Lin might not be back. So clearly you are absurd!

If we don't get bird rights for Lin- I think there is a very plausible scenario where the Knicks don't bring Lin back, and go a different direction.

I didn't watch Felton last year at all- but when he was here, he was more than adequate.

Are those 18 games for Felton from this season?

not gonna happen, or at least there is a 99.9% chance it won't happen. Lin just earns the Knicks too much money. And/or he is a trade asset. He just doesn't walk away.

And I thought there was a 99.9% chance that the knicks would at least call Phil Jackson to see if his hip was good enough for 2 years of trying to turn Melo into a champion.

The jersey sales and Chinese TV money are compelling, and understand, I want Lin back.

But, I can see a confluence of events where Dolan's win now mantra, the $74M 'cap', Woodson's preference for a different pg and a back loaded cap killing contract offer to Lin could lead us to go a different direction.

I guess I don't understand where the notion that Woodson prefers a different type of PG comes from. Please explain.

When Woody took over Lin was a big part of the 6-game win streak. No reduction in playing time realistically. About the same minutes until Lin went down with injury.

How does that indicate to you that Woody wants no part of Lin? Am I missing some memo that everyone else got?

ATrain wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We just need to focus on developing Lin and drafting a decent backup PG with our 2nd round pick. We can definitely find a player capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Jardine or Machado are both good possibilities.

I am so sick and tired of this organization and its fascination with "developing" players. We will never bring another chip here.

Lin is that player who is capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Let's find a damn noteworthy starting point guard, preferably one with years of playoff experience.

Never seen a "15 minute per game" player do what Lin has done this past season. I don't believe in rebuilding, but why not try to develop good players like the Spurs have? I'm talking about finding gems in the 2nd round that fit a role. Not sure why you aren't a fan of it.

ATrain wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We just need to focus on developing Lin and drafting a decent backup PG with our 2nd round pick. We can definitely find a player capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Jardine or Machado are both good possibilities.

I am so sick and tired of this organization and its fascination with "developing" players. We will never bring another chip here.

Lin is that player who is capable of playing 15 quality minutes a game off the bench. Let's find a damn noteworthy starting point guard, preferably one with years of playoff experience.

+1

Lin was practically a rookie and trying to learn to make great judgments in a system that allows a ton of freedom, but you have to know how to make the right decision almost all the time. Nash got put in that system when he was a fully mature vet!!! I think the upside for Lin is very high. A little less freedom as he seemed to have under Woody wasn't a bad thing. He was doing well considering I think his Knee was already pretty damaged and slowing him down. I think he'd be well worth the investment. I think Lin is only going to get better and his starting point was pretty impressive.

Bonn1997 wrote: He is more efficient than Melo and JR.

And KOBE

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:someone called me crazy for saying Lin might not be back. So clearly you are absurd!

If we don't get bird rights for Lin- I think there is a very plausible scenario where the Knicks don't bring Lin back, and go a different direction.

I didn't watch Felton last year at all- but when he was here, he was more than adequate.

Are those 18 games for Felton from this season?

not gonna happen, or at least there is a 99.9% chance it won't happen. Lin just earns the Knicks too much money. And/or he is a trade asset. He just doesn't walk away.

And I thought there was a 99.9% chance that the knicks would at least call Phil Jackson to see if his hip was good enough for 2 years of trying to turn Melo into a champion.

The jersey sales and Chinese TV money are compelling, and understand, I want Lin back.

But, I can see a confluence of events where Dolan's win now mantra, the $74M 'cap', Woodson's preference for a different pg and a back loaded cap killing contract offer to Lin could lead us to go a different direction.

I guess I don't understand where the notion that Woodson prefers a different type of PG comes from. Please explain.

When Woody took over Lin was a big part of the 6-game win streak. No reduction in playing time realistically. About the same minutes until Lin went down with injury.

How does that indicate to you that Woody wants no part of Lin? Am I missing some memo that everyone else got?

I should have written Woodsons's possible preference for a different pg. I think I've read that he might prefer a veteran PG.

at this point, its all supposition. I'm just saying I could see how we would not bring him back.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote: He is more efficient than Melo and JR.

And KOBE

I would rather have Lin than Kobe right now.

GustavBahler wrote:Felton couldn't run the P&R with Stat the last time, what makes anyone think that he can do it now? He put up some nice numbers, not nice enough to forget that he called his own number too much and his decision making was too often questionable.

Andre Miller would be a nice fit but he said wants to stay in Denver. He says he wants to go to a contender but wouldn't mind being the backup PG in Denver which is weird considering they won't be contending for a few years, if ever. Maybe the Knicks can convince him otherwise.

He ran the pnr better than most pg's but he certainly wasnt a steve nash or chris paul if thats what youre aiming for. How many times did teams trap Felton and force the ball to Chandler who couldnt do anything with it?

I like Felton, but giving up Lin is not going to happen when he's worth so much more than whatever contract we give him. Ideally, we get two PGs: Lin + Nash or Felton. Realistically, we probably have Lin with Toney Douglas as the backup and, perhaps, Mike Bibby.

loweyecue wrote:Some people on this board will stop at nothing to get rid of Lin, I think it is rooted in their fear that Lin has the goods to steal the spotlight away from their beloved "superstar". Dumb thread, Lin is staying get over it.

Felton was playing in a ball movement offense similar to MDA style, Lin was playing under Woody who could care less about ball movement and who's offense consists of dumping the ball to Melo. Great comparison based on 18 games.

Wanting Felton to come in doesn't mean anyone dislikes Lin...It means we don't want the Knicks to have zero options if Lin gets hurt or doesn't produce or isn't effective...Wanting another PG after last year's debacle at the position proves you have the best interest of the team at heart....

I like Felton but we have so many holes to fill, I am not sure if we can afford him.
I do not see Felton playing for anything under the 3.5m mini exemption that teams over the cap can afford.

Given the way he was used and abused by us, we really put him in a bad place.
As he probably could have gotten a slightly better deal, but chose NY because he knew Dantoni and NY would give him the opportunity to develop and put greater numbers up.
In half a year, he was sent packing, and now will be struggling to even find a full MLE deal with the new CBA, with his weight, and he way he has performed since the trade.

I think we need multiple players that can penetrate, to create open shots, and not only from the PG position, watching OKC play, to create good shots.
We also need good shooters, some post presence, and with great spacing, watching the Spurs play to create good % shots and high % 3pointers.
While we will never be as good as any of of these teams, we can try our our best to assemble a team with the same theories, and tweak it with our own players.
We still have no identity and chemistry, with our team, which I think is our greatest problem.
Having training camp, practices, and with the right players, we have the assemble the right players to fit these needs.

I really like Darius Johnson-Odom, G, 6-2, 215, Marquette, Senior, with his ability to score, play defense, and penetrate. I think with his ability to penetrate, shoot, with his combination of speed/quickness, strength, and athleticism, he would be a poor mans JJ Barea, without the ability to facilitate. While I think he will go much higher than our 2nd pick, we need to find a way to acquire a pick, maybe moving both our 2nd rounders acquired from Dallas with Chandler for him. Would also invite his team mate Jae Crowder, with his ability to hit the 3pointer and he just might dropp a lot because he is much shorter than his 6'6, closer to 6'3. With our current 2nd round pick or even if he falls off the draft because of his height/size issues being a possibility.

Regarding resigning Lin...

If management thinks he is the player they saw during Linsanity, you bring him back at whatever the cost.

If management thinks that was a flash in the pan and his is damaged goods you let him walk.

My opinion is the flash was bright enough to invest in him. We have surely done worse investments.

LOL @ the fat photo of Felton. I like Felton, his intensity and pride while playing here was great, but he does have an issue with his weight. No run and gun offense could mean a fatter Felton all year. That said, of he wanted to come back, I would welcome him. Maybe STAT can convince him the Knicks are poised to do big things and he is the last piece of the puzzle. Some lie along those lines.

RonRon wrote:I like Felton but we have so many holes to fill, I am not sure if we can afford him.
I do not see Felton playing for anything under the 3.5m mini exemption that teams over the cap can afford.

Given the way he was used and abused by us, we really put him in a bad place.
As he probably could have gotten a slightly better deal, but chose NY because he knew Dantoni and NY would give him the opportunity to develop and put greater numbers up.
In half a year, he was sent packing, and now will be struggling to even find a full MLE deal with the new CBA, with his weight, and he way he has performed since the trade.

I think we need multiple players that can penetrate, to create open shots, and not only from the PG position, watching OKC play, to create good shots.
We also need good shooters, some post presence, and with great spacing, watching the Spurs play to create good % shots and high % 3pointers.
While we will never be as good as any of of these teams, we can try our our best to assemble a team with the same theories, and tweak it with our own players.
We still have no identity and chemistry, with our team, which I think is our greatest problem.
Having training camp, practices, and with the right players, we have the assemble the right players to fit these needs.

The biggest and most important hole to fill is the PG slot...

holfresh wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Some people on this board will stop at nothing to get rid of Lin, I think it is rooted in their fear that Lin has the goods to steal the spotlight away from their beloved "superstar". Dumb thread, Lin is staying get over it.

Felton was playing in a ball movement offense similar to MDA style, Lin was playing under Woody who could care less about ball movement and who's offense consists of dumping the ball to Melo. Great comparison based on 18 games.

Wanting Felton to come in doesn't mean anyone dislikes Lin...It means we don't want the Knicks to have zero options if Lin gets hurt or doesn't produce or isn't effective...Wanting another PG after last year's debacle at the position proves you have the best interest of the team at heart....

The way the post was laid out it made it clear the intent was to get Felton and NOT get Lin to save money. I have no issues with getting another PG, but I am amazed by how easily people have given up on Lin. The real reason is these are the types of people who would rather just ignore him since he doesn't fit their stupid stereotype. Woodson has not even said he wants Lin to start, this cannot possibly have anything to do with basketball skills.

loweyecue wrote:

holfresh wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Some people on this board will stop at nothing to get rid of Lin, I think it is rooted in their fear that Lin has the goods to steal the spotlight away from their beloved "superstar". Dumb thread, Lin is staying get over it.

Felton was playing in a ball movement offense similar to MDA style, Lin was playing under Woody who could care less about ball movement and who's offense consists of dumping the ball to Melo. Great comparison based on 18 games.

Wanting Felton to come in doesn't mean anyone dislikes Lin...It means we don't want the Knicks to have zero options if Lin gets hurt or doesn't produce or isn't effective...Wanting another PG after last year's debacle at the position proves you have the best interest of the team at heart....

The way the post was laid out it made it clear the intent was to get Felton and NOT get Lin to save money. I have no issues with getting another PG, but I am amazed by how easily people have given up on Lin. The real reason is these are the types of people who would rather just ignore him since he doesn't fit their stupid stereotype. Woodson has not even said he wants Lin to start, this cannot possibly have anything to do with basketball skills.

Woodson has been clear the Lin is the PG.

loweyecue wrote:

holfresh wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Some people on this board will stop at nothing to get rid of Lin, I think it is rooted in their fear that Lin has the goods to steal the spotlight away from their beloved "superstar". Dumb thread, Lin is staying get over it.

Felton was playing in a ball movement offense similar to MDA style, Lin was playing under Woody who could care less about ball movement and who's offense consists of dumping the ball to Melo. Great comparison based on 18 games.

Wanting Felton to come in doesn't mean anyone dislikes Lin...It means we don't want the Knicks to have zero options if Lin gets hurt or doesn't produce or isn't effective...Wanting another PG after last year's debacle at the position proves you have the best interest of the team at heart....

The way the post was laid out it made it clear the intent was to get Felton and NOT get Lin to save money. I have no issues with getting another PG, but I am amazed by how easily people have given up on Lin. The real reason is these are the types of people who would rather just ignore him since he doesn't fit their stupid stereotype. Woodson has not even said he wants Lin to start, this cannot possibly have anything to do with basketball skills.

I must be missing the stereotyping that you are talking about. Could you clarify? Also, the Knicks are definitely bringing back Lin and I think he is the better fit for the Knicks even if Felton comes at a discount. As someone else said, I don't think Felton is coming back to NY after the way he was shipped out.

PG and C are the most important positions to have above average players in. We are set in those 2 positions for the present and future. I think we need to focus on the SG position and depth at the PG and bigs. We can address one of those needs if we draft properly, likely the backup PG position. We can add a couple players for depth with minimum contracts like Parker or Pietrus at the SG. Basically the fact that we are strapped does not mean we can't improve in certain areas.

Felton and Amere were developing something nice when he was here and I would love to have him back. Just don't think it would happen after Dolan dissed the F*** outta him!!!!! Maybe he'll have a change of heart.

CashMoney wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

holfresh wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Some people on this board will stop at nothing to get rid of Lin, I think it is rooted in their fear that Lin has the goods to steal the spotlight away from their beloved "superstar". Dumb thread, Lin is staying get over it.

Felton was playing in a ball movement offense similar to MDA style, Lin was playing under Woody who could care less about ball movement and who's offense consists of dumping the ball to Melo. Great comparison based on 18 games.

Wanting Felton to come in doesn't mean anyone dislikes Lin...It means we don't want the Knicks to have zero options if Lin gets hurt or doesn't produce or isn't effective...Wanting another PG after last year's debacle at the position proves you have the best interest of the team at heart....

The way the post was laid out it made it clear the intent was to get Felton and NOT get Lin to save money. I have no issues with getting another PG, but I am amazed by how easily people have given up on Lin. The real reason is these are the types of people who would rather just ignore him since he doesn't fit their stupid stereotype. Woodson has not even said he wants Lin to start, this cannot possibly have anything to do with basketball skills.

Woodson has been clear the Lin is the PG.

Woodson was asked if Lin would start and he said "We shall see". I don't know how that clearly makes him the PG. My point is simple no one know what Lin can or can't do but there is a large body of peopl on this board who are writing him off as a role palyer/scrub even after he singlehandedly got us into the playoffs and I for one think Woodson feels the same way. I don't think he has the ability to say no to Lin becuase of Lin's marketability and how attractive that is to Dolan. But I don't think he cares for Lin's game or will do anything to try to develop him. Yes this is a feeling I have right now and it's based on his body language when he is asked about Lin and not on any thing that has been reported. So as not to put too fine an emphasi on it: We shall see.